Blind-Fight vs Invisibility


Rules Questions


So if a character has the Blind Fight Feat and is in a small room (30x30 foot) with an invisible monster, who has been laughing at the pc, can the character with Blind Fight attack the inviso guy or must he wait to be attacked? Which is what the GM is telling me. That makes no sense to me, if I have Blind Fight and know someone is in the room with me I should be able to attack. Or am I just wrong? Thanks in advance for any help.


If you can pinpoint the square he's in, you can.

If he's laughing at you, he just made your job a lot easier.


Cheapy wrote:

If you can pinpoint the square he's in, you can.

If he's laughing at you, he just made your job a lot easier.

Even if you can't you can still swing at a square and hope for the best.


Cheapy wrote:

If you can pinpoint the square he's in, you can.

If he's laughing at you, he just made your job a lot easier.

That's what I thought but the GM insists I'm not able to do anything but wait until he attacks. It NERFS the Blind Fight Feat if its only good if the inviso opponent never moves. I took it thinking my Monk was learning to fight blind, using his other senses to pinpoint his targets. Is that incorrect thinking on my part?


Blind-Fight does three things.

1) If you miss in melee because of concealment, you can re-roll your miss chance once.

2) If you are attacked in melee by someone who is invisible, they don't get the normal +2 to hit, and you don't lose your Dex bonus to AC.

3) If you are blinded, you don't need to make an acrobatics check to move at full speed.

Since none of those things affect being able to target an invisible creature, you would follow the normal rules for Invisibility.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

If I were your GM:

Yes, if, as Cheapy says, you attack the right square he is in. There is absolutely nothing in the Blind Fight description, nor in the description of the invisible condition or the Invisibility special ability, that says you must wait to be attacked before you can attempt an attack an invisible creature.

DEPENDING ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES, I might mediate the situation like this:
1. Since he is laughing, I would allow you a Perception check to pinpoint the sound of his laughter. I would not give the invisible character the full bonus to Stealth because of the laughing (he is not trying to be stealthy, and moreover it leaves room that if he's using ghost sound or ventriloquism, you pinpoint the sound, but it is in fact still the wrong square).

2. Whether you make a Perception check or not, you can pick randomly which square you attack, based on the information you (think you) have. If you pick the correct square, then you resolve the attack as normal (roll to hit, roll concealment chance, and use Blind Fight to reroll if the first concealment check fails). If you pick the wrong square then of course you wiff. (ETA: wraithstrike's point about the GM not necessarily revealing whether you genuinely missed the target or just didn't hit him is a good one though.)

You should also make sure the GM is following the rules that ARE in the Blind Fight feat, which is that you do not lose your Dex bonus to AC to him and he does not get a +2 bonus to attack you.

If and when he does attack you and he remains invisible, it should be much more apparent which square he is in regardless.


Pinpointing a target only tells you what square they are in. What I would do to prevent metagaming is to have you roll the dice twice even if you swung into the wrong square. Even better I would roll behind the screen for you.

You can always make an attack roll on your turn, but there is no guarantee you are swinging at the correct area.


Magekiller187 wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

If you can pinpoint the square he's in, you can.

If he's laughing at you, he just made your job a lot easier.

That's what I thought but the GM insists I'm not able to do anything but wait until he attacks. It NERFS the Blind Fight Feat if its only good if the inviso opponent never moves. I took it thinking my Monk was learning to fight blind, using his other senses to pinpoint his targets. Is that incorrect thinking on my part?

Blind fight doesn't allow you to pinpoint the target.

Benefit: In melee, every time you miss because of concealment (see Chapter 8), you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit.
An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker’s bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however.
You do not need to make Acrobatics skill checks to move at full speed while blinded.

You need to use Perception to pinpoint the invisible target.


Yea, blind fight doesn't let you figure out where they are. You use perception for that.


make a full run action and run through as many squares as you can. Youre likely to find him and when you run into air and fall backwards your team will likely know where they are :P

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