Crafting exotic weapons - whose point of view?

[spqr202]

If my character is from Minkai and attempts to craft a Katana or Naginata, is the DC check still 18 even though my character is from Minkai? Both these weapons are listed as "exotic", but they would not seem exotic to my character. On the other hand, a rapier would seem exotic to my character (having never encountered it) but since it is a martial weapon, by the current rules it seems that it would be easier for my character to create a rapier than a katana.

[Cheapy]

It's from the game designer's point of view.

AKA: It has nothing to do with the player's perspectives, unless the GM makes it so.

[spqr202]

I'm not sure I fully understand this answer. It seems that some weapons are listed as exotic because they are not normally encountered and should be therefore harder to craft. But for my specific character, the opposite would seem to be true.

Btw, this is not a hypothetical question. I actually am playing a samurai in an adventure path that does not take place in Tian Xia. So I've given him ranks in Craft: Weapons and Craft: Armor so that he will still have access to his tools of trade while far from home. My question is whether he is should be rolling a DC 15 or DC 18 when crafting weapons and armor that he has been in contact with all his life.

[Cheapy]

Sorry. The answer is that it's because the weapons are "different" enough that they require special training. There's nothing about geography in their exoticness.

A repeating crossbow is exotic to everyone, even the places where they're made and used quite often, due to the inherent differences they posses with regular crossbows.

Another example is that not all "eatern" weapons are exotic, no matter where you are.

So, it's the game designers who decide what is exotic. It has nothing to do with where they're made. A repeating crossbow is going to be exotic in taldor, just like it will be in tien xia.

[spqr202]

ah I see, thanks!

[J3Carlisle]

if your DM has allowed for certian weapons and armor to not be exotic for you to use, then I see no reason they cannot do the same for crafting

[Umbranus]

So would a Elven curved blade be exotic for an elven weaponsmith?

[blackbloodtroll]

Exotic, or simple, it has absolutely no effect whatsoever on crafting them.

[wraithstrike]

The weapon is still exotic. Elves only get to treat it differently for purposes of proficiency. That does not change its actual category.

[Starglim]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Exotic, or simple, it has absolutely no effect whatsoever on crafting them.

It changes the DC.

[blackbloodtroll]

Starglim wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Exotic, or simple, it has absolutely no effect whatsoever on crafting them.

It changes the DC.

True, but otherwise, no effect.

[Justin G.]

I think in this case, "exotic" just means "more complex to create."

[Haladir]

I've always treated "exotic" as as "requires special training to use." These are often also complex or otherwise special weapons to craft, so these senses align most of the time.

The one weapon on the standard equipment list that doesn't fit that model is the hand crossbow. I don't see any reason why it would need any special training to use when light crossbows are simple weapons. I've houseruled that it's a simple weapon to use, but difficult to construct or repair, and is considered to be an exotic weapon when crafting.

[Dolanar]

Take into account the real crafting of a proper Katana vs a Longsword. A Katana is often crafted with a technique that folds the steel (or other material) a great many times to increase the overall strength, the greatest Katanas usually have about 1000 folds or more (in rare cases). The Folding Technique takes alot more time than the typical Longsword method which may fold the steel maybe 10-50 times, if they use the Folding Steel technique.

Even among basic Swordsmiths today, a Full 1000 fold Katana is rare most "Show" Katanas that are not made "Battle-ready" come up at about 50-80 folds maybe, so it is still an exotic method of crafting.

[MagiMaster]

The 1000 folds doesn't mean folding 1000 times, it means 1000 layers (which only requires folding 10 times). Past about 25 folds (2^25 layers), the layers would be thinner than an single iron atom.

What made katanas (at least some of them) unique was the way they combined harder and softer steels to both keep an edge and flex without cracking.

[blackbloodtroll]

Oh god, not the katanas thing again.

[jpomzz]

Katanas are underpowered in pathfinder!!!!

[MC Templar]

why would you want the DC down?

With a 15 DC, most of these things are going to take weeks to finish, months if it's masterwork.

[blackbloodtroll]

Fabricate is a crafter's best friend.

[Aeshuura]

I don't know if they are underpowered. The thing that I really found interesting was that when tested against chain mail, it was largely ineffective. I think it's greatest weakness was that it had very little weight behind it, so it could not pierce the heavier armors.

In my opinion, the strength is in the finesse-ability, speed, and lethality on unarmored foes.

But Pathfinder opts for a simpler form of combat...

[blackbloodtroll]

Would the craft DC of a firearm be the same as an exotic weapon? It is exotic.

[Netromancer]

I think what the OP means is that to the Minkai a katana is commonplace. Whereas to other races it is rare. ie. A dwarven waraxe is a martial weapon for dwarves, yet exotic for other races. I understand how the game mechanic works, but there are real life cultural differences in weapon styles between East and West and he was wondering if that carried over to the game's depiction of an Eastern style race.

It's a very valid question concerning your choice in skills. My advice would be to to speak with your DM and see his views on it. With your character being Minkai and a Samurai at that (intimately familiar with the weapon you are crafting) as long as there were no serious game-breaking issues I would definately allow it.

[spqr202]

Netromancer wrote:

I think what the OP means is that to the Minkai a katana is commonplace. Whereas to other races it is rare. ie. A dwarven waraxe is a martial weapon for dwarves, yet exotic for other races. I understand how the game mechanic works, but there are real life cultural differences in weapon styles between East and West and he was wondering if that carried over to the game's depiction of an Eastern style race.

It's a very valid question concerning your choice in skills. My advice would be to to speak with your DM and see his views on it. With your character being Minkai and a Samurai at that (intimately familiar with the weapon you are crafting) as long as there were no serious game-breaking issues I would definately allow it.

OP here, yes Netromancer, that was my question. For a character from Minkai, the katana would have been commonplace and one would expect that the crafting of the katana would be central to the study of weaponscrafting in those parts. We talked it over as a group and decided to go with Cheapy's explanation. The way that we are playing it, "exotic" does not mean "Originating in or characteristic of a distant foreign country" but rather that by nature, it requires some very specialized skills to craft. That is, someone trained in Minkai to craft katanas would still find katanas more difficult to craft than longswords due to the nature of the katana. That isn't the standard definition of "exotic" by any stretch of the imagination, but rather captures the relative difficulty of crafting certain items. My samurai will still be crafting his own katanas, but must role an exotic DC. To me at least, this question is answered.

I'd certainly like to see, in future editions of the core rulebook, the term "exotic" changed to something else more indicative of crafting difficulty.