What to expect loot wise


Kingmaker


About to begin GMing a kingmaker group, and our fighter asked a great question: What kind of weapons should I focus on?

Now, I don't want to give him everything, but more than the Player handout gave me would be nice (Just says "axes, bows, and swords, which is quite broad).

I'd like to be able to give him an answer like "well, a two handed weapon path may be best" or "archery is the way to go". Do later volumes contain "epic" weapons that should be used, rather than throwing into the party loot bin?

I couldn't buy all the volumes quite yet, but can you guys give me an idea of what to expect.

Thanks ahead of time!

Sovereign Court

Tell him he will not regret specialising with a Bastard sword.


One character with bastard sword & one with greatsword will rock n roll. Switch-hitters will REALLY rock n roll. Some familiarity with horse and lance can back up EVERYONE having ranged weapons with very close range increments.


Thanks. These are both great answers. He was looking at bastard swords and a mount, and our ranger had read treantmonk's guide on rangers, and of course, wanted to make a switch hitter. I don't like them min/max, but I like them feeling "at home" in the story.

Thanks again.


There is a couple of nice weapons; the most famous of which, coming towards the end, is called out in the AP as changeable. That is, it mentions "if your PCs don't have this particular type, change it to something they do have".

But the above suggestions will quite work. :)

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Backing up ChrisO: There's a few places in the AP where it says "switch out this weapon for whatever your fighter specializes in" - I think most of these weapons default to Bastard Sword if noone in the party has specialized.

However, you're the GM. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to change up any of the loot. If he specializing in Dire Flails, well, guess what, the Stolen Lands is rife with magical Dire Flails....

As for ranged, yes, get ranged. Many combats happen outdoors where you can see the enemy from far away. (Unless you don't like running those sorts of combats, because they tend to bore the non-range characters, in which case you should discourage it.)


Thank you, Chris and Erik. The more information I have regarding where it goes the better. I've read the outline, and it does sound exciting.

And I worried so much about choice, because if some lore related artifact came up, and no one in the group could use it (which I highly doubt), I would be upset. And then I would change it.

PS: Ranged combat is always fun. What worries me is the potential amount of mounted combat in Kingmaker. After a few sessions, I'm sure we'll have it down.


Erik, if there are non-ranged characters, then it's because of choices the players made. Frankly, every class has access to ranged weapons; if they refuse to use them... well, that's their problem. I can understand that many players would prefer to play to their strengths all the time, but they have to learn that it is not always possible.


Personally I found that loot was a little low on the ground. Not disastrously so, but it is a little noticeable. Later on, the reverse problem as the players can afford to outfit themselves through the kingdom


Too little loot?
Really?
That is rather surprising. I have the reverse impression, but I have never added everything up.
Is there a specific time frame when you noticed the lack of loot? The party seems to start of well with horses and other gear in the first encounter, and gets a lot of loot from the Stag Lord's Fort alone - 9,000 gp on the Stag Lord (including gear), and some 10,000gp in his treasury. That alone about covers the wealth the party should have by level four. And RRR has a single rather easily reached weapon that covers about half the resources the party should gain through that adventure.


I understand where you are coming from there. Yes there are one or two major drops, but much of it is also dependant on them finding the right places and making the perception checks. For example in the first book, if they go to the sycamore tree and don't make the rolls to find the wand etc stored there, then they are missing out on a fairly big loot drop. Combine that with the ring of improved swim in the barbarian cairn and it adds up after a while. Yes there is the inevitable 'make up for it in other ways' that all GM's should do, but that can tend to mean a lot more work than one might wish to do, especially when already running this AP for at one stage, 8 players.


Several people have 'added it all up' (counting cash gems/jewellery/trade goods at 100% and magical/mundane equipment at 50%) and report the AP as being bang-on for loot. Note however that comes with two big corollaries:

1) - A significant amount of treasure resides in the hordes & personal equipment of end bosses, so up until walking into the Stag Fort / Vordekai's Lair / House at the Edge of Time the PCs can look underpaid.

2) - Another significant amount, especially in earlier modules, lies in hands of 'potential ally' NPCs, and therefore many parties will never see it as 'loot'. It's up to the DM to decide if the party should be compensated for not getting the Swamp Witch's treasure if they make friends with her.


There is massive down time built into the AP though. Especially once a caster acquires fabricate and a healthy Craft skill to pair up with decent 'start up money' - let alone high-end Perform checks - generating additional income is easy.


swords....the weapons of kimgs


thenovalord wrote:
swords....the weapons of kimgs

No doubt. Although a king with a dire flail could be fun. Half orc. Fighter.

Anyway, I guess my one last question about kingmaker, is what you guys expect at the later stages. Is there anything about it that totally surprised you? Also, one player is torn between cleric and druid. He wants to heal. Opinions on that?

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Jink wrote:
Also, one player is torn between cleric and druid. He wants to heal. Opinions on that?

One feature of Kingmaker that you need to be keenly aware of as GM: there is typically only one fight per day. Once the PCs figure this out, expect them to "nova" every fight. To specifically answer your question: it also means they don't need to prep any healing. The fight will go however it goes, then they can rest, and do whatever healing in the morning. There is no need for dungeon-crawl-style resource management.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Jink wrote:
what you guys expect at the later stages. Is there anything about it that totally surprised you?

The world is freakishly low-magic. It seems to pretend that Wizards don't exist. This cuts both ways: it means there is minimal loot for arcane casters, but it also means everything is super-susceptable to their powers.

For example, books 1 and 2 can more-or-less be solo-ed by a Witch with the Sleep hex. And books 4 and 5 can be solved trivially via scry-n-fry.

And the loot thing, well, between infinite crafting time and the not-play-tested-at-all magic-item-economy mechanics, I'm sure your Wizard will loot up just fine.


Erik Freund wrote:
]One feature of Kingmaker that you need to be keenly aware of as GM: there is typically only one fight per day. Once the PCs figure this out, expect them to "nova" every fight. To specifically answer your question: it also means they don't need to prep any healing. The fight will go however it goes, then they can rest, and do whatever healing in the morning. There is no need for dungeon-crawl-style resource management.

However, this isn't always the case, and if the players expect every encounter to be like it, they won't be at all prepared for the few major dungeons there are. They could end up using all their resources and healing too early. Just a thought....

And there are a few choice items for wizards out there in terms of power (spellbooks being the main thing). When you get the time, read through the rest of the books and plan accordingly. It wouldn't be hard to tweak the books to suit your group's needs.

(My group doesn't try to work the system hard, so I've never had a problem with the magic item economy or super-crafters or anything.)

Grand Lodge

Erik Freund wrote:
Jink wrote:
Also, one player is torn between cleric and druid. He wants to heal. Opinions on that?
One feature of Kingmaker that you need to be keenly aware of as GM: there is typically only one fight per day. Once the PCs figure this out, expect them to "nova" every fight. To specifically answer your question: it also means they don't need to prep any healing. The fight will go however it goes, then they can rest, and do whatever healing in the morning. There is no need for dungeon-crawl-style resource management.

That is why random or not so random encounters are pivotal so the pcs don't get complacent and treat it like a video game.


To suggest something else, I would add an aldori swords in the options. It adds a lot of role-playing options in Rostland / Mivon.


Eminence Grise wrote:
To suggest something else, I would add an aldori swords in the options. It adds a lot of role-playing options in Rostland / Mivon.

Oh yes. The fighter was torn between Aldori and Rogarvia in terms of bloodline. This totally reminds me of last question, promise:

The campaign trait in the player handout that mentions bloodlines to noble houses (Bastard, I believe it's called), does that get wrapped up in a later book and the player is proven noble, or does it fall on the GM if that happens or not? This is mostly curiosity on my part. I think either way it's totally an interesting trait.


Up to the GM, as is usually the case with all but 1 or 2 of any given set of campaign traits from an APs players guide.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Jink wrote:
The campaign trait in the player handout that mentions bloodlines to noble houses (Bastard, I believe it's called), does that get wrapped up in a later book and the player is proven noble, or does it fall on the GM if that happens or not?

Fall on the GM. None of the traits are ever explicitly addressed in the AP.

In my game, the nobles houses play a huge role, and even if the PCs aren't noble, it matters whose lands they are from. (But then, mine is heavily influenced by Game of Thrones.) If you have similar aspriations, mandate that the PCs put their house on their character sheet (same as they must put alignment and diety). In my vision of Kingmaker, it pays dividends. What will your vision be about?

Grand Lodge

Erik Freund wrote:
Jink wrote:
The campaign trait in the player handout that mentions bloodlines to noble houses (Bastard, I believe it's called), does that get wrapped up in a later book and the player is proven noble, or does it fall on the GM if that happens or not?

Fall on the GM. None of the traits are ever explicitly addressed in the AP.

In my game, the nobles houses play a huge role, and even if the PCs aren't noble, it matters whose lands they are from. (But then, mine is heavily influenced by Game of Thrones.) If you have similar aspriations, mandate that the PCs put their house on their character sheet (same as they must put alignment and diety). In my vision of Kingmaker, it pays dividends. What will your vision be about?

Brevic civil war does rear its ugly head so if they are nobles it should affect them.

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