Base Classes vs Archetypes

[Gebby]

I was wondering what people use more(or if anyone sticks with original)and are the standard classes as good(balanced) as most archetypes?

[Banatine]

Archetypes are always a personal choice, i find.

for example, my favourite personal character is a Paladin of Bahamut, so for me Sacred Servant is excellent.

my second char is a Magus. Since i've always loved the idea of the armourless arcane critical master, Kensai fits me perfectly. Plus i like bladebound because an awesome talking sword is the kind of thing i love.

They aren't about power, i find. they are about style and preference. I found choosing between archetypes for maguc extremely dificult, because they are all things i want to do, but all sacrifice OTHER things i want to do.

[Lost Soul]

I've looked in detail at the archetypes for most of the martial classes, for the wizard, for the bard and for the monk.

The monk is the only class with archetypes that are a clear power boost. Qinggong is downright pure improvement since you pick and chose what you want, but they're mostly all better than the base monk (and that was before Flurry of Blow got nerfed.) But there are quite a few archetypes that are just better IMO - probably because the monk has so many weak/useless class features that can be swapped for something better. And now that Flurry of Blow has been crippled, archetypes that drop it are probably even better.

The other classes I've looked at had archetypes that were downright weaker than the base class even for creating exactly the character described in the archetypes. Of course, most of those weird concepts are weaker than an optimized character to start with, but even if you don't care for having The Very Best XXX Possible (tm), there are quite a few archetypes that you'd be downright dumb for using. In other words, some archetypes are trap options.

In the good-case situation, the archetypes are on par with the base class if you create the exact concept described in the archetype as far as power go - but has soon as you divert slightly, you're better off with the base class.

The best-case for non-monks archetypes are when some class abilities wouldn't work really well for a specific campaign, and can be replaced with useful abilities. For instance,the Cavalier can get some archetypes that reduce or remove the need for a mount if that specific feature would be a problem.

[Richard Leonhart]

in general they aren't more powerful, but personally they are, I'll explain.

I never use poison, even if playing an alchemist, so if I pick an archetype that switches poison for something useful he is stronger than my usual alchemist, but for a player that uses all the abilities of the base class to its fullest that archetypes aren't more powerful than the standard class.

[blahpers]

Exactly. One man's weak/useless is another man's cheese.

[Jonathan Henson]

I find I sometimes get the best use of my characters when I use archetypes. I'm a big fan of Uncharted, so I actually used the Archaeologist archetype for bards, which I find works out pretty well. It helps give alternative way of use classes without just using feats and skills. In 3.5, archetypes weren't widely used and the best way to change characters around using unique characters were the numerous base and prestige classes.

[Grand Moff Vixen]

I make a concept of a character I want and then see what class comes closest to it. If an archetype is an exact/very close fit I will use it over the base class.

Use what comes close to your vision. If that means use the base class or an archetype then use it.

[Eideann]

I agree with Richard, if the class has something you don't use then an archetype that replaces that is going to be better for you.

Overall I think the archetypes focus the character, improving one thing at the expense of not having another thing at all. An example would be if your Summoner rides their Eidolon, you will have no use for the powers that teleport your Eidolon to you, or swap places with it, so why not take the Evolutionist Archetype and replace those powers with something you may use.

Of course some classes seem to have weaker archetypes than others, it surprises me how many Bard Archetypes give up Inspire Courage.