It's powerful but not overwhelmingly so. If anything it shows that other m elee classes ( rogue, Wtf ranger) are not strong enough.
I do think it's disappointing that they decided to allow arcane mark spam for an extra attack per round since at lower levels that ought to be a more limited resource.
I'm not. At that level it's a worse version of flurry of blows.
I do think it's disappointing that they decided to allow arcane mark spam for an extra attack per round since at lower levels that ought to be a more limited resource.
I play a hexcrafter that gets the brand cantrip (as it's a curse) that at least deals one damage.
My GM and I talked about it and came to the conclusion that as a HR Brand works but only until a foe is branded.
I don't even remember if it is the same for arcane mark.
So I get one attack per opponent without needing to waste a spell level. Thats good enough for me.
What we forgot up until now was that brand has a Fort save. So it would work until the enemy fails his save.
Have to ask him about that.
Haven't read the Magus rules but did get to play with one last week during a PFS game. The Magus had more hit points than my barbarian, better AC to start with and further boosted with spells, an equal to hit bonus, better damage, some nice utilities spells, could turn his weapon into a +3 or a flaming, keen seemingly at will, and had access to every skill the GM asked for.
Not knowing what a magus was and being told he's a "wizard fighter", my barbarian rushed in front to protect him in the first encounter. The magus then stepped in front of me and slaughtered the bad guys.
On the plus side, my barbarian ate some delicious popcorn the rest of the adventure as he sat back and watched the magus handle all of the encounters by himself - including a one-hit, critical to drop a troll.
A d8 HD character, all else being equal, averages 2 hp less per level than a barbarian. Funny though everyone seems to forget that a Magus is dispel-bait...
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Introduce him to the yo-yo magus. :)
You, sir, just got a new fan.
My wonderful yo-yo fighters will finally be born!
You, sir, just got a new fan.
My wonderful yo-yo fighters will finally be born!
Woo hoo! :)
And there I thought using spellstrike with spellcombat only meant that you get to cast the spell while making a normal attack at -2 (as with all spell combat), infusing the spell's effect on that attack. Not that it actually lets you make an additional attack.
Though using arcane mark with spellstrike is giving me silly ideas for an arcane Zorro.
I can't wait to throw a whip wielding magus against the PCs. :)
"Melee touch attack LOL"
Yeah, that'll be interesting. Especially if you can bottleneck them with a tank or something.
Funny though everyone seems to forget that a Magus is dispel-bait...
Not really...you see a magus's spell list has very few actual buffs on it. If you dispel a magus you'll likely get one or to defensive spells off of him. Plus there is the issue of action economy of which the Magus is second only to a melee focused summoner in the ability to drop spells and full attacks.
I thought a whip only dealt non-lethal damage.
There is a feat tree in Ultimate Combat that does amazing things for the poor whip. One of which is allow it to deal lethal damage to anyone regardless of their armor/natural armor bonuses.
Though using arcane mark with spellstrike is giving me silly ideas for an arcane Zorro.
You're not the first person to think that. :P
I thought a whip only dealt non-lethal damage.There is a feat tree in Ultimate Combat that does amazing things for the poor whip. One of which is allow it to deal lethal damage to anyone regardless of their armor/natural armor bonuses.
And beside, who cares about damage if you are using your whip to trip/disarm opponents with Arcane Accuracy while casting with your other hand? Also, a whip can deliver touch spells via Arcane Strike. :)
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Broken is strong. Magi seem to be a better single target striker than the rogue. A player at pfs recently explained a build that allowed him to have a 4d6 shocking grasp at first level, 5d6 by 2nd with spell strike, and up to 10d6 with intense spell by 7th level, up to 20d6 with a sword on a crit or 30d6 at 7th level with an axe on a crit.
That, from a first level spell, 2/day at first, 3/day at 2nd, 11/day at 7th.
They don't require a flank, or flat footed, they get more bonus dice than a 20th level rogue by 7th, and it multiplies on a crit unlike other bonus dice. By 7th they can likely have a +1 shock weapon , and with their arcana , add their int bonus to hit.
And that's just one trick up their sleeves.
So no, that's not "broken" that's just highly effective in a single target attack instance.
But that's all it takes to make some encounters last a round , and not give allies a chance to shine and have fun, not give villains a chance to banter or even damage the players.
I can see several reasons why something like that needs to be reigned in to be on par with other characters threat potential as it throws CR out of whack.
Particularly in adventures where the party Sion theunfortunatereceiving end of the Magi stick. In an encounter where the enemy is a magi, and they can blow all their spells and arcane pool in one combat it can be particularly deadly to the players ( I'm looking at you Dalsine Affair for PFS)
Broken is strong. Magi seem to be a better single target striker than the rogue. A player at pfs recently explained a build that allowed him to have a 4d6 shocking grasp at first level, 5d6 by 2nd with spell strike, and up to 10d6 with intense spell by 7th level, up to 20d6 with a sword on a crit or 30d6 at 7th level with an axe on a crit.
No, he read the skill description wrong. So very wrong.
This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier
I think one can argue that anyone who has a way to get around the actions/round limit is broken. Quicken when not from a rod is expensive enough it might not be broken, but pets and eidolons and UMD familiars and spell combat are bypassing the rules that normal mortals suffer under.
They aren't the only ones breaking the action economy, but that doesn't mean they aren't broken.
Well nearly every class can break action economy in one form or another. For some it's easier than others. Any class that can gain Pounce for example breaks action economy.
Not to mention any schlub with Handle Animal can train a bunch of tigers to do their fighting for him.
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Broken is strong. Magi seem to be a better single target striker than the rogue. A player at pfs recently explained a build that allowed him to have a 4d6 shocking grasp at first level, 5d6 by 2nd with spell strike, and up to 10d6 with intense spell by 7th level, up to 20d6 with a sword on a crit or 30d6 at 7th level with an axe on a crit.
No, he read the skill description wrong. So very wrong.
This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier
good point. 20d6 on a crit max from the shocking grasp.
still way more than a rogue of 7th level can compete with. or anyone of 7th level for that matter. maybe if you herd kobolds into a room and fireball them , a wizard can compete for broad damage... . but single target?
good point. 20d6 on a crit max from the shocking grasp.
still way more than a rogue of 7th level can compete with. or anyone of 7th level for that matter. maybe if you herd kobolds into a room and fireball them , a wizard can compete for broad damage... . but single target?
Pffffttt.
7th level order of the cockatrice beast rider cavalier.
Have lance, have spirited charge, have power attack/furious focus challenge.
Assuming 18 strength.
1d8 +7 (challenge) +2 (order if none are threatening target) +1 Weapon +6 Strength +6 power attack = 2d6+1d8+22 x 3 = 3d8+66 No crit.
Yeah I think I got that maguses number.
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Broken is strong. Magi seem to be a better single target striker than the rogue. A player at pfs recently explained a build that allowed him to have a 4d6 shocking grasp at first level, 5d6 by 2nd with spell strike, and up to 10d6 with intense spell by 7th level, up to 20d6 with a sword on a crit or 30d6 at 7th level with an axe on a crit.
No, he read the skill description wrong. So very wrong.
This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifiergood point. 20d6 on a crit max from the shocking grasp.
still way more than a rogue of 7th level can compete with. or anyone of 7th level for that matter. maybe if you herd kobolds into a room and fireball them , a wizard can compete for broad damage... . but single target?
And he's still reading it wrong. He's going to cap out at 7D6 from that shocking grasp at 7th level (8D6 with a tricky feat or a 40K magic item), critting will put him at 14D6 then. Impressive but not TOO op since it only averages 49 pts of damage.
His error is thinking that Intensify pushes the damage die past his current caster level (it doesn't) and that magical knack lets him act as if he had 2 more caster levels (It doesn't).
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he's not reading it wrong. he's got a trait to increase his caster level with shocking grasp by 1, and his first feats were in spell focus and spell specialization, so his CL with shocking grasp is his character level + 3.
cavalier is nice: but the challenge is 2/day. by 7th the magus can use all his spell slots for shocking grasp and do it round after round.
even without a crit he's doing 10d6/round. and requires the cavalier to be somewhere he can use his mount.
a barbarian with a 22 str, +2 greataxe, is going to have something like +15/+10 (1d12 +11), -2/+6 w/ power attack, for 3d12+54.
magus 7 can have a 10d6 shocking grasp. by 9 he can resolve all his attacks for the round as melee touch attacks.
a strong rogue w/ flank at 7th can do about +4d6. if he's optimized for TWF he's still just dealing +8d6 by 7th on his two attacks. and requires a flank. a strong rogue might have a +7/+7 to hit while doing that though, so he'll miss a lot more.
Magus just does it in a way that a 3/4 bab striker class ( comparing it with the rogue ) can't compete with. over and over. in a way that can wreck encounters. more evident in PFS, where gms' can't design the encounter to challenge the party.
Magus just does it in a way that a 3/4 bab striker class ( comparing it with the rogue ) can't compete with. over and over. in a way that can wreck encounters. more evident in PFS, where gms' can't design the encounter to challenge the party.
I think I found your problem.
And by the sounds of the magus. He's probably the least dangerous magus to me in existence; the one trick pony.
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my friend that retired his PFS character at 6th level had the following build:
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15
Hp 51 (6HD)
Melee +2 keen katana +11 (1d8+8/15-20)
power attack: +9 (1d8+14/15-20)
perfect strike: 2 arcane point to increase crit multiplier so he does 3d8+42 dmg.
Arcane pool 13
Str 16 (18), Dex 12, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 7, Cha 12
Feats 1. Toughness, H. Extra Arcane Pool, B. weapon proficiency (katana), B. weapon focus (katana), 3. Power attack, 5. Extra Arcane Pool, B. Empower Spell
Arcane Pool Arcane Accuracy (+4 to hit for 1 round), Arcane Power Attack
traits: magical lineage (shocking grasp)
on a crit he'll do 3d8+42 , + shocking grasp or empowered shocking grasp. (5d6 or 5d6 + 1.5)
..
his build could easily swap out the extra arcane pool feats for spell focus (evocation) and spell specialization to have an 9th CL shocking grasp at 6th level.
I couldn't find where the arcane power attack is from. i didn't see it anywhere. his notes say it let him
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I think I found your problem.And by the sounds of the magus. He's probably the least dangerous magus to me in existence; the one trick pony.
for pathfinder society, that's all it takes to be a pain.
and the rogue is an appropriate comparison. its a 3/4 bab class that deals single target strikes. i wouldn't compare it to the wizard, because while a wizard can toss single target spells, he's got lots of options depending on spells.
barbarian, fighter, cavalier are all full bab classes.
and that's not a one trick magus,
thats just one trick he's got.
by 7th in that build, i can see him being a real pain in the ass.
arcane accuracy, empowered magic
whatever 5th level and 7th level feats he wants to augment or expand the build, maybe taking empower spell or elemental spell to change the energy type.
the cavalier on the other hand is literally on a one trick pony
the cavalier on the other hand is literally on a one trick pony
You don't know what a cavalier is then. I only posted just one potential possibility to come from that character. :D
I only listed the most basic of things that can be done.
Further, the rogue is a terrible baseline for comparison. Particularly since he's widely regarded to be one of the weakest classes out there.
If you compared him to say, a Synthesist, a well built monk, any properly built Bardcher, a wildshape druid. Heck even a ninja is a better baseline.
Finally if PFS is as easy to break as you say that is a fault of the scenarios not of the class.
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the scenarios are built for four characters of any class. an effective build from any class , or a full table of 6, can make any level 7 mod or less a cake walk.
this isn't a cavalier love thread,
its a "magi are broken" thread.
i'm just here providing anecdotes for two separate people with effective single attack focus builds.
i've never played one. i've GMed as one in the Dalsine affair and nearly had a TPK, I've heard of four tables that did have TPKs. And its generally regarded as one of the more deadly low/mid tier adventures for PFS just because of the Magus.
I've seen a cavalier as the big bad boss in one PFS adventure. he wen't down fairly quickly. your proposed Order of the Coctrice Cavalier
1. power attack, H. furious focus, 3. Mounted Combat, 5. Ride-By-Attack, 7. Spirited charge... that seems to get rid of having some other tricks via feats, so he's just got his exotic large mount, a +2 on melee damage vs. his target if he's the only one threatening it.
His one trick is to charge with spirited charge, since thats the only way he's dealing excess of 20 points per attack, and thats only if he declares one of his two challenges/day.
if he needs to go indoors, get through a door, or deal with a combat where he can't charge/ride by, he's back down to just furious focus on his power attack... aka about as good as a fighter.
Twice per day, i'll stay out of his way if he's mounted.
the scenarios are built for four characters of any class. an effective build from any class , or a full table of 6, can make any level 7 mod or less a cake walk.
this isn't a cavalier love thread,
its a "magi are broken" thread.
i'm just here providing anecdotes for two separate people with effective single attack focus builds.i've never played one. i've GMed as one in the Dalsine affair and nearly had a TPK, I've heard of four tables that did have TPKs. And its generally regarded as one of the more deadly low/mid tier adventures for PFS just because of the Magus.
I've seen a cavalier as the big bad boss in one PFS adventure. he wen't down fairly quickly. your proposed Order of the Coctrice Cavalier
1. power attack, H. furious focus, 3. Mounted Combat, 5. Ride-By-Attack, 7. Spirited charge... that seems to get rid of having some other tricks via feats, so he's just got his exotic large mount, a +2 on melee damage vs. his target if he's the only one threatening it.
His one trick is to charge with spirited charge, since thats the only way he's dealing excess of 20 points per attack, and thats only if he declares one of his two challenges/day.if he needs to go indoors, get through a door, or deal with a combat where he can't charge/ride by, he's back down to just furious focus on his power attack... aka about as good as a fighter.
Twice per day, i'll stay out of his way if he's mounted.
You still don't know what kind of cavalier I'm building if that's all you think I can do. :)
But I'm not going to get into it. I think your experience is sadly limited and thus your vision sadly narrow so arguing with you is sadly pointless. I only hope that in time you will see things in a ebtter light.
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he's not reading it wrong. he's got a trait to increase his caster level with shocking grasp by 1, and his first feats were in spell focus and spell specialization, so his CL with shocking grasp is his character level + 3.
cavalier is nice: but the challenge is 2/day. by 7th the magus can use all his spell slots for shocking grasp and do it round after round.
even without a crit he's doing 10d6/round. and requires the cavalier to be somewhere he can use his mount.a barbarian with a 22 str, +2 greataxe, is going to have something like +15/+10 (1d12 +11), -2/+6 w/ power attack, for 3d12+54.
magus 7 can have a 10d6 shocking grasp. by 9 he can resolve all his attacks for the round as melee touch attacks.
a strong rogue w/ flank at 7th can do about +4d6. if he's optimized for TWF he's still just dealing +8d6 by 7th on his two attacks. and requires a flank. a strong rogue might have a +7/+7 to hit while doing that though, so he'll miss a lot more.
Magus just does it in a way that a 3/4 bab striker class ( comparing it with the rogue ) can't compete with. over and over. in a way that can wreck encounters. more evident in PFS, where gms' can't design the encounter to challenge the party.
Spell Focus and Greater Spell focus increase the spells DC not it's caster level. Gifted Adept does boost it so he'd be at Caster level +1. I'm not concerned about an 8D6 shocking grasp, it's only averaging at 28 damage a hit.
And a strong rogue who uses a real weapon will be doing a LOT more then that every round non stop. Make a strength based rogue who sneak attacks with a greatsword and power attack using improved feint and he'll make that magus cry for the damage he puts out (6D6 +15ish is pretty easy to do at that level).
Now I play a Magus in PFS and though I can get the occasional impressive burst damage he's nowhere near game breaking. I think you're over-estimating how powerful a Magus is based on some mis-interpretations of a few rules.
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Jedi was the first thing I thought. Then I remembered Glorfindel. I think the Magus is the penultimate elf warrior.
Sorry, but you just pushed one of my buttons. "Penultimate" means "second to last". The prefix "pen" is from the Latin for "almost".
Sagotel is an acronym for "Self-Appointed Guardians of the English Lexicon". The name was intended as self-mockery. Please forgive my personality dysfunction.
Sure the magus kan do some damage - but broken? Not by a long shot!
The magus have very few point in his arcane pool - it's almost a joke.
Let say 3-4 encounters/day. Just to keep his blade enchanted he will have used up most of his points. Does he want a few spells back - that the rest of the points.
Use there is magus arcane that will allow the magus to shine by spending more arcane point - but this is a very limited resourse.
I compared a 10 lvl Battle oracle with 10 lvl Magus (well 9 lvl mgus 1 sorc) - the base dam and to hit is about the same - the magus did have an extra attack (but the battle oracle could cast blessing of fervor to gain the same)- so the basic diffence what the ~+55 dam from shocking grasp and that the oracle had a host of utility spells.
Broken - no. Have the ability to shine? - yes - when an intencified shocking grasp crits - it's sweet to be a magus - but your a glasscanon.
The whole - oh dear the magus one-killed the BBEG - that's what it's like playing against/with optimized chars. When i play in a optimized party I focus on initiativ so i get to kill things BEFORE one from my party one-kills him! Not so i can get before the BBEG...
If a people have a problem with the magus then they really have a problem with the optimizing players style.
- And even when I try i can't optimize a Magus to be REALLY broken.
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Yes I can see why he retired it, everything on this character is wrong and wouldn't pass any audit at any game I've ever played in. Let's look at what this character REALLY is shall we?
+2 Keen weapons cost 18300+ gold, a 6th level PFS character who has NEVER failed a faction mission is limited to a maximum of 11,750GP on an item. This weapon is illegal.
Arcane pool is not 13 it's 9, Int bonus (4) + 1/2 magus level (3) + Extra arcane pool (2) = 9.
Magical lineage means he CAN'T have any other magic traits and he took Empower so no intensified metamagic so he's limited to a maximum of 5D6 shocking grasp damage.
As for your weapon damage numbers, ASSUMING he kept it a legal katana he'd be doing:
Twohd Non-Spell combat +1 Keen Katana +10 (1D8+7/15-20)
Spell combat +1 keen katana +8 (1d8+5/15-20)
Power attack/spell combat +1 keen katana +6 (1d8+9/15-20)
(Remember spell combat requires you to have an empty hand for that entire round so no 2hd bonus for strength OR power attack)
Throw perfect strike in there and assuming he did confirm the crit it would only do 3D8+27 for an average of 40 pts of damage that round.
(Perfect strike is EITHER max weapon damage OR +1 crit multiplier not both)
Finally there is no such thing as Arcane Power Attack, he may be referring to arcane strike but if he is then that requires a swift action so it can't be used in any round he's using Arcane Accuracy.
Yeah this guy is going to miss ALOT more then the twf rogue at this point.
Now if he wanted to burn through his arcane pool and spend 4-5 points on every fight (meaning he can do this trick once per day) then yes on one attack if he's lucky enough to crit and confirm and roll maximum on his damage dice then yes he can do a maximum of 137 points of damage (average of 69) to a single creature.
Then he's pretty much done for the day.
Congrats, you just barely beat the greatsword wielding barbarians single round output.
This is not what I consider broken.
PS: As I said before there is no legal way for this magus to have a caster level higher than 6 and no way to get more then a 5D6 shocking grasp.
my friend that retired his PFS character at 6th level had the following build:
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15
Hp 51 (6HD)Melee +2 keen katana +11 (1d8+8/15-20)
power attack: +9 (1d8+14/15-20)
perfect strike: 2 arcane point to increase crit multiplier so he does 3d8+42 dmg.
Arcane pool 13Str 16 (18), Dex 12, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 7, Cha 12
Feats 1. Toughness, H. Extra Arcane Pool, B. weapon proficiency (katana), B. weapon focus (katana), 3. Power attack, 5. Extra Arcane Pool, B. Empower Spell
Arcane Pool Arcane Accuracy (+4 to hit for 1 round), Arcane Power Attack
traits: magical lineage (shocking grasp)on a crit he'll do 3d8+42 , + shocking grasp or empowered shocking grasp. (5d6 or 5d6 + 1.5)
..
his build could easily swap out the extra arcane pool feats for spell focus (evocation) and spell specialization to have an 9th CL shocking grasp at 6th level.I couldn't find where the arcane power attack is from. i didn't see it anywhere. his notes say it let him
Magi and Gunslingers are not broken. PFS senarios are not properley designed to handle advanced character classes. the senarios are very genaric and when you throw high damage output optimized characters into PFS senarios you get kill fests for Magi, Gunslingers and if people played them inquisitors.
I have gm'ed for two players one playing a Musket Master gunslinger and the other a Kensai Magus. Without changing the senarios which I know is frowned on by the DEV's all the players at my tables would have no fun as the Magus and Gunslinger wipe most everything out in a few rounds of combat as they almost always go first in the Initaive count as they have a +6 and +7 Init mod and deal 80+ points of damage per round each at tier 10-11 very few BBGs have High Init mods or HP to withstand the onslaught of the Magus and Gunslinger.
The Devs need to beef up High Tier encounters for advanced classes
More buffed spell casters are needed casters with staffs never seen a BG wizard with a staff in PFS why the Staff hate from the devs. I think they are just afraid of having buffed spell casters as BG's
more devils and demons are needed at high tier you don't always have to fight devils at High tiers use your dipolmacy with them. but i digressFix the high tier encounters and you will have sloved the problem.
What becomes of those groups that don't have such high DPR output?
How do you beef encounters for advanced classes with out spoiling them for the base classes. Surely it is better to aim low and if people want to make "broken" characters then let them, if they want to finish the fight in one round let them, let everyone else play lesser characters instead of forcing them to optimize.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
can someone explain to me how shocking grasp is dealing more than 5d6 damage?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Magus is very much a Nova class. The fewer encounters per day and more predictable they are, the more powerful they are. If there are one or two encounters per day on a regular basis, I can see people thinking Magus is a bit overpowered.
The obvious solution is to increase the number of encounters per day often enough where magus players aren't blowing their wad ever time they step up to the plate. After he's burned out all his spells, the magus is a about as powerful the warrior NPC class.
The frustrating thing about this is it makes the Magus the perfect NPC/ bad guy class since they rarely have to survive more than one encounter per day.
can someone explain to me how shocking grasp is dealing more than 5d6 damage?
I was the one Seraphimpunk mentioned, so here how I have desigend that particular Magus. I won't bore you with play style or spell lists, but if you can fallow it here.
() = feat [] = magus arcana <> = sorcerer bloodline arcana
trait #1 Gifteded Adept +1 caster level (shocking grasp)
Trait#2 deft dodger +1 reflex saves
level 1 magus {weapons and armor / martial and light}
level 1 magus {arcane pool}
level 1 magus {cantrips}
level 1 magus {spell combate}
human() Spell Focus (Evocation) +1dc
level 1() Spell Specialization (shocking grasp) +2Caster levels for spell
SG 4d6
level 1 sorcerer character level 2 Cross and Wild Blooded
Blood Lines Draconic (linnorm)((bronze)) and Elemental (primal)((air))
gain perception as a class skill
sorcerer {cantrips}
sorcerer {eschew materials}
level 1 sorcerer<> (linnorm) gain spell level cast (with the electric discriptor) in Natural Armor Bonus for 1d4 rounds
level 1 sorcerer<> (primal) +1 damage per damage die for spells with the electric discriptor
level 1 sorcerer {bloodline power} ray rta 1d6 electric damage 3+chr mod per day
SG 4d6+4
{spell strike}
level 3() Weapons Finesse (use dex for melee attacks)
SG 5d6+5
level 4 magus 3[] arcane accuracy (1ap= +int mod to attack rolls one round)
SG 5d6+5
level 5 magus 4 {spell recall}
level 5() intisify spell (meta +1 spell level, additional spell die per level)
SG 5d6+5 / (i)SG 8d6+8
level 6 magus 5()bns Elemental Spell ( meta +1 spell level, half or whole change out enery type(acid))
SG 5d6+5 / (i)SG 9d6+9
level 7 magus 6[] Enduring Blade (2ap=enchant for min per level)
level 7() Weapon Focus (+1 att with rapier)
SG 5d6+5 / (i)SG 10d6+10
level 8 magus 7 {knowledge pool}
level 8 magus 7 {medium armor}
SG 5d6+5 / (i)SG 10d6+10 VT 3d6 (must have spell storeing for VT)
level 9 magus 8 {imporoved spell combate}
level 9() Spell Focus (necromancy)(change spell specialization to Vampiric Touch)
SG 5d6+5 / (i)SG 10d6+10 VT 5d6
level 10 magus 9[] accurate strike (2ap= melee now touch ac for one round)
SG 5d6+5 / (i)SG 10d6+10 VT 5d6
level 11 magus 10 {fighter training}
level 11() Empowered Spell (meta +2 spell level, add half again as many damage dice)
I forgot to add this to the end
SG 6d6+5 /(i)SG 10d6+10 /(e)(i)SG 15d6+15 VT 6d6
and all the sg are x2 if you crit with a rapier with keen edge on a 15+.
Keep in mind before pick it appart that yes there are holes in the build. Con checks reflex saves to name the two highest threats. So do with it what you may.
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Spell Focus and Greater Spell focus increase the spells DC not it's caster level. Gifted Adept does boost it so he'd be at Caster level +1. I'm not concerned about an 8D6 shocking grasp, it's only averaging at 28 damage a hit.
Not greater spell focus. Spell specialization. The caster level with the selected spell goes up by two.
And a strong rogue who uses a real weapon will be doing a LOT more then that every round non stop. Make a strength based rogue who sneak attacks with a greatsword and power attack using improved feint and he'll make that magus cry for the damage he puts out (6D6 +15ish is pretty easy to do at that level).
With improved feint, he's still stuck using his move action to feint for 6d6. The magus can move , cast as a standard action, and attack with his weapon to deliver the spell as the free attack. (the aforementioned 10d6 + whatever the baste weapon damage is)
And this is the 6th level magus, at 7th he gets nastier. With specialization, and a rod of lesser intense spell. Vs a rogue that has sunk his feats into martial weapon proficiency, combat expertise, improved feint, and power attack.
Yes I can see why he retired it, everything on this character is wrong and wouldn't pass any audit at any game I've ever played in. Let's look at what this character REALLY is shall we?
+2 Keen weapons cost 18300+ gold, a 6th level PFS character who has NEVER failed a faction mission is limited to a maximum of 11,750GP on an item. This weapon is illegal.
+2 keen is the effective output of using 1 point of his arcane pool at the beginning of combat as a swift action to add to his normally +1 katana. By 7th he can add +2 to the weapon, choosing in this case keen and increasing the +1 to +2.
Magi effectively get 10k gp in enhancements As a swift action in most combats by 5th level.Arcane pool is not 13 it's 9, Int bonus (4) + 1/2 magus level (3) + Extra arcane pool (2) = 9.
His build has him taking extra arcane pool twice. Your right, his calculations are off, and I transcribed the error. It should've been 4 + 3 + 4 for 11. He might have had a headband at that point, that only gets him to 12 anyway, so I'm not sure why he had down 13.
Magical lineage means he CAN'T have any other magic traits and he took Empower so no intensified metamagic so he's limited to a maximum of 5D6 shocking grasp damage.
Magical lineage allows you to pick aspell, not pick a feat. He chose shocking grasp. So when he chooses to empower it via the feat, the actual adjustment is +1 not +2 because it is treated as one level lower. And when he uses Intense Spell it is +0 adjustment.
Again this build is not the 10d6 shocking grasp, this is the 6th level magus my friend got tired of playing because it nerfed encounters. He may have had a rod of lesser intense spell by 6th, I don't know. He only sent his build sheet, not his pfs char sheet. At 6th level he barely needs intense spell anyway.
Like I noted after posting it, the build could be modified by dropping the extra arcane pool feats and taking gifted adept instead of magical lineage and swapping the empower for intense at that point gets you more damage.
As for your weapon damage numbers, ASSUMING he kept it a legal katana he'd be doing:
Twohd Non-Spell combat +1 Keen Katana +10 (1D8+7/15-20)
Spell combat +1 keen katana +8 (1d8+5/15-20)
Power attack/spell combat +1 keen katana +6 (1d8+9/15-20)(Remember spell combat requires you to have an empty hand for that entire round so no 2hd bonus for strength OR power attack)
That is assuming he's doing Spell Combat to cast with one hand and attack, and get a second attack, both at -2. He can use Spellstrike (2nd level ability) to cast shocking grasp as a standard action, and use his Melee attack instead of the free touch attack from the spell. This is not limited to a one handed attack. So he gets his full bab, Str, no penalty from Spell Combat ( 4 bab, +4 Str, +1 feat, +2 enhancement = +11, and on damage is dealing 1d8 +6 Str two-handed, +2 weapon, and can power attack for -2/+6, which can be offset if needed for high AC enemies with Arcane Accuracy for an additional +4 to hit.
With power attack, on a crit, 2d8+28, if he wants he can make it 3d8+42 , if needed.
And with keen he'll crit on 15 or better. If he's combining it with a shocking grasp, this character has 5d6, he's separate and not to be confused by the other twinky magus who extolled to me the virtues of how he could deal 10d6 by 7th level. However this character does have Empower Spell, so he can use a second level slot to add an empowered 5d6 shocking grasp to the really big bad guys, and crit to empowered 10d6 25% of the time.
Either way is a lot more than a 7th level rogue.
Throw perfect strike in there and assuming he did confirm the crit it would only do 3D8+27 for an average of 40 pts of damage that round.
(Perfect strike is EITHER max weapon damage OR +1 crit multiplier not both)
Did I ever claim he was taking max damage option? No.
Finally there is no such thing as Arcane Power Attack, he may be referring to arcane strike but if he is then that requires a swift action so it can't be used in any round he's using Arcane Accuracy.
Yeah this guy is going to miss ALOT more then the twf rogue at this point.
Yeah, I queried him, he apparently thought Maneuver Mastery could be taken to use his full bab for power attack. Knowing he's wrong now just means he could branch out his build with that Magus Arcana.
A TWF rogue at 6th would be +4 bab, not an 18 Str since he needs Dex to hit TWF prerequisite, we'll call it 16 and 16, so +1 shortswords maybe. ( +4 bab, +3 Str, +1 enhancement, -2 TWF = +6. Well be generous and assume weapon focus and power attack.. so +5( 1d6+8/19-20) / +5 (1d6+4/19-20) plus sneak if he can get it. And get a full round attack.
Vs +9 (1d8+14/15-20) + a spell if he feels like it. 5d6 (possibly empowered) shocking grasp. And maybe a +4 from arcane accuracy if its hard to hit.
Yeah the rogue is going to be hitting SO much more vs a high AC enemy, how coulda not see that before, the magus is only ahead of him by 4 to 8 points.
Now if he wanted to burn through his arcane pool and spend 4-5 points on every fight (meaning he can do this trick once per day) then yes on one attack if he's lucky enough to crit and confirm and roll maximum on his damage dice then yes he can do a maximum of 137 points of damage (average of 69) to a single creature.
Then he's pretty much done for the day.
Congrats, you just barely beat the greatsword wielding barbarians single round output.This is not what I consider broken.
Hmmm. Most Magi are going to be spending 1 arcane point per fight anyway, if they want to supe up their weapon. But just like a wizard who can size up the fight and decide not to use his heavy spells, I doubt with a regular attack of +10 ( 1d8 +7/18-20), that he'll waste points in an easy encounter.
Now, on a hard encounter, with a boss, yeah 1 for the extra +1keen, maybe 2 if he crits, maybe 1 for Arcane Accuracy if the bbeg has a high AC, that's not unreasonable. With 11 points in his pool he can do a lot.
PS: As I said before there is no legal way for this magus to have a caster level higher than 6 and no way to get more then a 5D6 shocking grasp.
P.p.s. once again, look up the feat spell specialization. This magus as presented was my friends build. A player at a local pfs night extolled a SEPARATE build that took the Gifted Adept trait for +1 caster level with shocking grasp, spell focus, and spell specialization , which requires spell focus as aprerequisite. Look it up. Ultimate magic pg 156, instead of misreading it as greater spell focus. You'll see that someone with THAT build can indeed get a caster level 10 with shocking grasp by 7th level. And could even combine it with a rod of lesser intense spell and the Empowered Magic Arcana for a 1st level slot effectively dealing 15d6 in one attack. (10d6 * 1.5 , roughly equivalent to 15d6 ) , still eligible for weapon damage on top of that with Spellstrike.
Still not broken IMHO.
If you look at the resourses that goes into this. Points from Arcane pool, feats that maybe great at low level - but you have 3 feats to get +2 CL on Vam touch after lvl 9 + a little extra DC...
The build seems fine. It highly specialized - RES/immunity to electricity takes away the major damage part - but with the right spell selection doesn't nerf the build completely.
Linnorm? I guess a little nat armor now and then doesn't hurt - and since untyped should stack with amulet of nat armor. But the bonus seems small, compared to Orc blodline that on level 9 would give you +5 dam on your vam touch.
Still not broken IMHO.
If you look at the resourses that goes into this. Points from Arcane pool, feats that maybe great at low level - but you have 3 feats to get +2 CL on Vam touch after lvl 9 + a little extra DC...
The build seems fine. It highly specialized - RES/immunity to electricity takes away the major damage part - but with the right spell selection doesn't nerf the build completely.
Linnorm? I guess a little nat armor now and then doesn't hurt - and since untyped should stack with amulet of nat armor. But the bonus seems small, compared to Orc blodline that on level 9 would give you +5 dam on your vam touch.
Quite a few GMs do not allow orc bloodline, can't really blame them it is a bit power creepy compared to others.
Quite a few GMs do not allow orc bloodline, can't really blame them it is a bit power creepy compared to others.
It's only really strong as a dip imo.
For a steight Sorc is it too melee oriented for my taste except you want to take orc traits or feats.
"a bit power creepy compared to others" - depending on the party.
It's optimized if the party is full of optimized chars it's not a problem - but if he's the only one it could take fun out of the game for the other players. But that's whow it is with optimization - either everybody does it or you should hold back (either in optimization or playing style). Nothing like the goblin magus with a hate for dogs and horses that uses a empowered shoching grasp to kill a dog while the party is busy with the real treat!
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can someone explain to me how shocking grasp is dealing more than 5d6 damage?The answer to your question.
Then 10d6 is the max. You can't stack the same metamagic feats more than once.
Some people are throwing up 20d6 for a Shocking Grasp.
Also when you crit with a spell you only multiply the total damage, you don't multiply the actual dice.
If you have 5d6 you roll it and then you multiply that roll times 2 or 3.
can someone explain to me how shocking grasp is dealing more than 5d6 damage?The answer to your question.Then 10d6 is the max. You can't stack the same metamagic feats more than once.
Some people are throwing up 20d6 for a Shocking Grasp.
Also when you crit with a spell you only multiply the total damage, you don't multiply the actual dice.
If you have 5d6 you roll it and then you multiply that roll times 2 or 3.
Whethet you roll 5d6 and multiply by 2 or 10d6 it comes out to the same average. People use the higher xd6 number to represent the actual damage.
So 10d6 x 2 = 20d6 = 60 points average.
A longsword does 1d8 points of damage. On a crit, it does 2d8 points of damage, not (1d8)x2 points of damage.
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together.
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Edit: Ninja'd
Also when you crit with a spell you only multiply the total damage, you don't multiply the actual dice.
If you have 5d6 you roll it and then you multiply that roll times 2 or 3.
Umm what?
"A critical hit means that you roll your damage more
than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls
together."
Not sure what you are getting at, but if you crit with an Intensified Shocking Grasp (assuming your caster level is 10 or higher) you roll 20d6.