I'm playiing serpents skull. here's the breakdown:
20 point buy
Ninja with at least one level dip into urban ranger (for trapfinding)
two traits one of which must be Serpents Skull
Starting at level one, but I've never played a ninja so I could use advice for long term character growth also.
What are the best abilities/strategies/etc? What are a ninjas primary stats? Etc? What's the best ninja race?
|
For a Ninja, you want as much Dex as possible, Weapon Finesse, and a pretty good Charisma (say, 14+) for Ki Pool.
Aside from that it's really up to you, though Str or Int are your best dumps, mechanically speaking.
Tactics pretty much as a Rogue (Flank + TWF, etc.) only you're better at them, and can cast Invisibility on yourself (Vanishing Trick. Take it.) and eventually Greater Invisibility (Invisible Blade. Take it, too).
Race-wise, Humans are always good (as are Half-Elves and Hlf-Orcs). As are Halflings, Kitsune, and anyone else who bumps Dex and Cha. An Elf isn't bad either.
Personally, I'm not sure I'd dip in Ranger. Trapfinding is nice but hardly necessary per se and the three level dip for it really hurts. Is your GM unwilling to let you trade Poison Use for it?
Trait-wise, I'd go with Boarded In the Shackles for +1 Will Save, or Jenivere's Crew for Survival as a Class Skill (or Knowledge-Nasture if going Urban Ranger), plus Reactionary.
Personally, I'm not sure I'd dip in Ranger. Trapfinding is nice but hardly necessary per se and the three level dip for it really hurts. Is your GM unwilling to let you trade Poison Use for it?
3 levels?!? I thought it was one. Havent looked at it in awhile. F that noise.
|
Well, if you're still on the fence about dipping a few into ranger, consider this: A Half-Orc Ranger/Ninja that specializes in natural weapons and unarmed strikes. Grab the race trait for Half-orc that gives a bite attack, at level 2 of ranger grab aspect of the beast as a natural weapon combat style feat (this is for 2 claw attacks). Pick up IAS and Weapon Finesse as well, as both unarmed and natural weapons are light. Then, proceed with ninja as normal, making a bite, 2 claws, and unarmed strikes (through kicking, probably not a good idea early on) to deliver a lot of sneak attacks on a full attack.
Also, pick up the Ninja tricks - Acrobatic Master and Vanishing Trick. One lets you tumble through a single opponent almost guaranteed, while vanishing trick allows you to get a single sneak attack in against those who can't see past invisibility (not to mention the +2 to your attack roll and no dex bonus on the target).
I favor (as many can attest) the sap master route to high damage.
Take the scout rogue archtype, and charge your foes doing 1d3 + 6d6 + 9 damage at level 5 (if you use unarmed strikes and take the knockout artist feat). At that point, I'd get an agile boost to your current weapon.
prototype00
|
|
I favor (as many can attest) the sap master route to high damage.
Take the scout rogue archtype, and charge your foes doing 1d3 + 6d6 + 9 damage at level 5 (if you use unarmed strikes and take the knockout artist feat). At that point, I'd get an agile boost to your current weapon.
prototype00
Since ninja is an alternate class of rogue, I'm not certain he can pick up the scout archetype, or even take levels in rogue. Not sure, though...
|
|
Since ninja is an alternate class of rogue, I'm not certain he can pick up the scout archetype, or even take levels in rogue. Not sure, though...
He can't take Rogue as a separate class...but Alternate Classes are just Archetypes with a shiny picture to go with them. And you can stack Archetypes, as long as they don't effect the same ability...and Scout doesn't effect any of the same things as Ninja, so you can just be a Ninja (Scout) the same way you can be a Rogue (Scout). It's one of only a few Archetypes available in such a way (because a lot of them replace Trapfinding or Trap Sense), but it's leagal and viable.
I have every intention of playing a Kitsune Ninja (Scout) with the Kitsune Pounce Feat and playing a Pouncing Ninja of Doom one of these days in a high level game.
|
|
He can't take Rogue as a separate class...but Alternate Classes are just Archetypes with a shiny picture to go with them. And you can stack Archetypes, as long as they don't effect the same ability...and Scout doesn't effect any of the same things as Ninja, so you can just be a Ninja (Scout) the same way you can be a Rogue (Scout). It's one of only a few Archetypes available in such a way (because a lot of them replace Trapfinding or Trap Sense), but it's leagal and viable.
I have every intention of playing a Kitsune Ninja (Scout) with the Kitsune Pounce Feat and playing a Pouncing Ninja of Doom one of these days in a high level game.
In which case, wouldn't the Ninja's abilities and class features state which abilities and class features they are replacing over a rogue's?
|
|
In which case, wouldn't the Ninja's abilities and class features state which abilities and class features they are replacing over a rogue's?
A mere result of the difference in format, that can easily be figured out by comparing the two. The designers have all made it clear on numerous occasions that this is how Alternate Classes work.
Update:
Its smugglers shiv. The DM is letting me play an Undine (the new water gensai) and He's letting me swap out poison use for Trapfinding. That last part is good because I never use poison. Frankly I think it's kind of a waste. SO YAY!
Is it important for you, to play a dex focused ninja? If not a friend of mine is playing a str focused ninja with a two hander and he deals a nice amount of dmg. (not as much at the pimp hand nonletahal build but still)
Update:
Its smugglers shiv. The DM is letting me play an Undine (the new water gensai) and He's letting me swap out poison use for Trapfinding. That last part is good because I never use poison. Frankly I think it's kind of a waste. SO YAY!
Ooh, if he lets you get trapfinding, swap it out and take the thug archetype, with the enforcer feat you can make enemies frightened (i.e. they run away) every time you hit them.
prototype00
|
|
Is it important for you, to play a dex focused ninja? If not a friend of mine is playing a str focused ninja with a two hander and he deals a nice amount of dmg. (not as much at the pimp hand nonletahal build but still)
Undines get -2 Str and +2 Dex, so this is a bad idea for that race.
Indeed, with that race and 20 point buy, I'd do something like this (from an optimization perspective):
Str 8 Dex 18 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 14
Though honestly, you could drop Con to 13 and raise either Int or Str, or drop Wis to 10 and do the same. Or both. I'd probably at least raise Int were it me.
On the other side of the scale, you could drop Int to 8 and grab Wis 14 for extra Will Save, if you liked.
Ooh, if he lets you get trapfinding, swap it out and take the thug archetype, with the enforcer feat you can make enemies frightened (i.e. they run away) every time you hit them.
prototype00
This too, strikes me as a bad idea. If you really want Enforcer goodness, be a worshipper of Sarenrae and take the Blade of Mercy trait. It's a lot less investment in the whole thing, and a holy assassin for the Dawnflower is pretty cool, too.
This too, strikes me as a bad idea. If you really want Enforcer goodness, be a worshipper of Sarenrae and take the Blade of Mercy trait. It's a lot less investment in the whole thing, and a holy assassin for the Dawnflower is pretty cool, too.Ooh, if he lets you get trapfinding, swap it out and take the thug archetype, with the enforcer feat you can make enemies frightened (i.e. they run away) every time you hit them.
prototype00
Does the blade of mercy trait make enemies run away in terror everytime you hit them? For a whole round?
Because if it does, yep, thats the way to go.
prototype00
The race/class is pretty much set. I'm not looking for total optimization. I just want to make the best of what I have. My main job is going to be skill monkey/trap finder. However, I don't want to be totally useless in combat.
I'm considering dipping into a martial class (probably fighter) to up my BAB and feat selection. Also, I am taking a one level dip into shadow dancer at level 6.
you only get a benefit from a full BAB class dip if you take at least 4 levels. Otherwise you're just putting off the loss of BAB, not avoiding it. Remember a 4/4 Fighter/Rogue has a BAB of 7, where a 8 rogue has BAB of 6.
The reason for dipping to Fighter or Ranger is for the feats and weapon proficiencies. I would just stick with Ninja, b/c most of your weapons are already pretty good and you don't want the armor hitting you hard with Armor Check Penalties.
Skip Shadow Dancer too. You want to take Vanishing trick, this allows you to be invisible as opposed to just "stealthed" so you don't need to hide in plain sight. Taking levels of fighter also slows your Sneak Attack dice(which is kind of the point of being a ninja/rogue) and you're not as feat starved as a regular rogue since you don't need to take Combat Expertise and Improved Feign just to be effective in combat.
I would pick up TWF. Flanking coupled with invisibility, means you can mostly ignore the penalty to hit and that gives you 12d6 sneak attack dice at level 8 and 20d6 at level 9.
Also remember that every level dip you take will push back advanced tricks by another level, and they are very powerful. AND you Ki and many class abilities are rounds per level, so ever level of fighter means a round less of a ninja trick and every 2 levels of fighter is one less ki per day.
|
|
Does the blade of mercy trait make enemies run away in terror everytime you hit them? For a whole round?
It doesn't, but Frightened is actually a bad condition for a Rogue to inflict (you want them standing right there where you can Full Attack Sneak Attack them, not heading for the hills), while the penalties from shaken are nice.
The race/class is pretty much set. I'm not looking for total optimization. I just want to make the best of what I have. My main job is going to be skill monkey/trap finder. However, I don't want to be totally useless in combat.
As a Ninja with Trapfinding, you should be able to do both quite effectively. Just grab Weapon Finesse and TWF (at 1st and 3rd level respectively) along with Vanishing Trick and you're good to go at low levels.
I'm considering dipping into a martial class (probably fighter) to up my BAB and feat selection. Also, I am taking a one level dip into shadow dancer at level 6.
j b 200 does an excellent job of laying out the reasons this is a bad idea. If you want an extra Feat or two, grab them as Ninja Tricks, it's very much allowed.