Question: Enchantments and Monk's Fist


Rules Questions


From several days I'm wondering if a Monk fist could be enchanted like the normal weapons or not....
Is it possible?
How much does it cost?
T.Y. and sorry for my bad English.

The Exchange

You cannot enchant it like a weapon, but you can get a permenancy spell on magic fang or greater magic fang.

You can get an amulet of might fists, it does what you want, but is pricey due to covering multiple weapons (every body part a monk or monster could use).


GeneticDrift wrote:

You cannot enchant it like a weapon, but you can get a permenancy spell on magic fang or greater magic fang.

You can get an amulet of might fists, it does what you want, but is pricey due to covering multiple weapons (every body part a monk or monster could use).

In the rule book it says: "A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."

I thinked to magic tatooes and magical scars too.

I have heard and read many opinions in matter, thank you for your answer but I'd like to have an answer from someone of the creators, so there'll were no more dubts on it.


There is a statement floating around somewhere.

The issue is that UAS cannot be masterwork, and a weapon has to be MW to be enchanted.

link

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
BTW I wouldn't let you cast masterwork transformation on an unarmed strike, mainly because there is no "masterwork equivalent" for a unarmed strike, which means the spell would have no effect.


You can get an allying weapon and choose to give your fists a +1-5 bonus as a free action every round.


Archaeik wrote:

There is a statement floating around somewhere.

The issue is that UAS cannot be masterwork, and a weapon has to be MW to be enchanted.

link

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
BTW I wouldn't let you cast masterwork transformation on an unarmed strike, mainly because there is no "masterwork equivalent" for a unarmed strike, which means the spell would have no effect.

The fist of a monk must be masterwork, the increment of the damage is the obvious evidence that are so and at the level 4 with the talent bonus "ki reserve" the fists are considered magical weapons.

MY WISH IS TO HAVE AN ANSWER FROM JASON BULMAHN OR SOMEONE THAT HAS COLLABORED TO THE CREATION OF PATHFINDER.
I WANT AN OFFICIAL RULES FOR THIS!!!!!

Thank you both for your opinions, but I don't deserve it!


Bigio wrote:
Archaeik wrote:

There is a statement floating around somewhere.

The issue is that UAS cannot be masterwork, and a weapon has to be MW to be enchanted.

link

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
BTW I wouldn't let you cast masterwork transformation on an unarmed strike, mainly because there is no "masterwork equivalent" for a unarmed strike, which means the spell would have no effect.

The fist of a monk must be masterwork, the increment of the damage is the obvious evidence that are so and at the level 4 with the talent bonus "ki reserve" the fists are considered magical weapons.

MY WISH IS TO HAVE AN ANSWER FROM JASON BULMAHN OR SOMEONE THAT HAS COLLABORED TO THE CREATION OF PATHFINDER.
I WANT AN OFFICIAL RULES FOR THIS!!!!!

Thank you both for your opinions, but I don't deserve it!

Monk must be fixed at all, fists for the monk are the equivalent of a sword for a warrior o a bow for a ranger.

The magical weapons of the other characters can be improved, why the fists of a monk not? (With magical tatooes, or using ki points for the activation of the magical effect, i.e. a level 3 spell effect needs 3 ki points)


SKR is one of the lead developers...
It's obvious you don't want to hear anything contrary to your desires.


Archaeik wrote:

SKR is one of the lead developers...

It's obvious you don't want to hear anything contrary to your desires.

I want anexaustive answer, in the SKR answer he sayd that's only an his opinion but that the monk will be fixed after a reunion with all the staff.

I don't want a perhaps, I wanna an yes or a no and why! Rules are rules, but this rule is very interpretable.
Thanks to you too, but I repeat I don't deserve the answers of players or masters likes you, I wanna an official rule for this!
I've payed for the manuals and I think that at least must have rules that works and not creates dubts.


Malfus wrote:
You can get an allying weapon and choose to give your fists a +1-5 bonus as a free action every round.

You would still have to wield the allying weapon that round, still, that could be a decent use of your last iterative or off-hand.


Grick wrote:
You would still have to wield the allying weapon that round, still, that could be a decent use of your last iterative or off-hand.

Wield or use?


Bigio wrote:
The fist of a monk must be masterwork, the increment of the damage is the obvious evidence that are so and at the level 4 with the talent bonus "ki reserve" the fists are considered magical weapons.

This is not the case.

Ki Pool (Su): "At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction."

They are magic only for purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Not for any other purpose.


Malfus wrote:
Wield or use?

Allying: "An allying weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the weapon's enhancement bonus to one weapon being used by an ally of the wielder. The wielder must have line of sight to the intended ally. As a free action, at the start of her turn before using her weapon, the wielder chooses how to allocate her weapon's enhancement bonus. The bonus to the ally's weapon lasts until the allying weapon's wielder's next turn. The enhancement bonus from the allying weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus on the ally's weapon (if any)."

From the Defending weapon property FAQ: "Unless otherwise specified, you have to use a magic item in the manner it is designed (use a weapon to make attacks, wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it, and so on) to gain its benefits."


Grick wrote:
Malfus wrote:
Wield or use?

Allying: "An allying weapon allows the wielder to transfer some or all of the weapon's enhancement bonus to one weapon being used by an ally of the wielder. The wielder must have line of sight to the intended ally. As a free action, at the start of her turn before using her weapon, the wielder chooses how to allocate her weapon's enhancement bonus. The bonus to the ally's weapon lasts until the allying weapon's wielder's next turn. The enhancement bonus from the allying weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus on the ally's weapon (if any)."

From the Defending weapon property FAQ: "Unless otherwise specified, you have to use a magic item in the manner it is designed (use a weapon to make attacks, wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it, and so on) to gain its benefits."

I already knew of that FAQ, but you mentioned that you must wield the weapon, I was asking if you meant use.

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Can we get a new flag option for "Developer callout to basic questions"?


Malfus wrote:
you mentioned that you must wield the weapon, I was asking if you meant use.

I meant wield, since that's what the property states.

Wielding means "actively trying to use the item," and is normally only used in the context of weapons or weapon-like objects such as rods, wands, and so on.

(...)
If you're wielding a sword, you're trying to hit people with it.


Incidentally, SKR's quote makes bonded weapons for wizards even more useless:


  1. A wizard with a bonded weapon must wield the weapon to reliably cast spells. Previously, this was ruled as holding it in a combat-ready configuration, so you couldn't use a two-handed bond for spells with S or M components. It's about to get worse.
  2. A creature must try to hit people with a weapon in order to wield it, per SKR's quote.
  3. A wizard (in most cases) cannot cast a spell if he's trying to hit people with the weapon. They only get the one standard action. Sure, they could use a quickened spell, but how are they going to live long enough to get there?
  4. Therefore, a wizard with a bonded weapon--even a dagger--cannot reliably cast spells.

Sovereign Court

bonded weapons have always been useless.


Grick wrote:
Malfus wrote:
you mentioned that you must wield the weapon, I was asking if you meant use.

I meant wield, since that's what the property states.

Wielding means "actively trying to use the item," and is normally only used in the context of weapons or weapon-like objects such as rods, wands, and so on.

(...)
If you're wielding a sword, you're trying to hit people with it.
Interesting. Wield always struck me as holding with the ability to use. Especially here:
Two Weapon Fighting wrote:
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.
and here:
Reach Weapons wrote:
However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature.

The first seems redundant, "If you hold and attack with a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon." The second seems non-nonsensical, as it appears I would not threaten with a reach weapon unless I attacked with it that turn...


blahpers wrote:
Incidentally, SKR's quote makes bonded weapons for wizards even more useless

Six posts down:

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Question tough, what does that mean for wizards that chose to a weapon or two handed weapon even, as their arcane bound item?
It means "obviously you can't wield the weapon and cast a spell in the same round, so we'll change the text in the arcane bond section so it says 'held in hand' rather than 'wielded.'" :)

And sure enough:

Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): "If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand..."


Grick wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Incidentally, SKR's quote makes bonded weapons for wizards even more useless

Six posts down:

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Question tough, what does that mean for wizards that chose to a weapon or two handed weapon even, as their arcane bound item?
It means "obviously you can't wield the weapon and cast a spell in the same round, so we'll change the text in the arcane bond section so it says 'held in hand' rather than 'wielded.'" :)

And sure enough:

Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): "If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand..."

Ah. That's good, I guess. Never read the text since that change.

That said, the sentence right before that still says "wielded":

prd wrote:
If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.

But it's pretty clear from the partial fix and from SKR's post that RAI, at least is for the weapon to simply be carried in hand.

It doesn't make the original quote about "wielding" any less strange to me, though. Hooray, house rules!


Malfus wrote:
Grick wrote:
Malfus wrote:
you mentioned that you must wield the weapon, I was asking if you meant use.

I meant wield, since that's what the property states.

Wielding means "actively trying to use the item," and is normally only used in the context of weapons or weapon-like objects such as rods, wands, and so on.

(...)
If you're wielding a sword, you're trying to hit people with it.
Interesting. Wield always struck me as holding with the ability to use. Especially here:
Two Weapon Fighting wrote:
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.
and here:
Reach Weapons wrote:
However, Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten more squares than a typical creature.
The first seems redundant, "If you hold and attack with a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon." The second seems non-nonsensical, as it appears I would not threaten with a reach weapon unless I attacked with it that turn...

"That just raises more questions!"

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Question: Enchantments and Monk's Fist All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.