
Nepherti |

I have this player. Outside of game and with in the crowd of gamers in this town, his real-world name is usually followed by "the Wizard." He is notorious for being very creative when it comes to the parameters of spells and what they are capable of. And it's not that he can't play a combat class, it's just his strong suit is caster. The other players are okay with him playing Wizard (my boyfriend and his girlfriend), as most of the game is role-play, and he knows what he is capable of and realizes himself he needs to tone it down with some GMs. He has even told me to not give him any magic item, he said "oh I don't need help."
I've already figured that certain areas they enter have differing magical alterations, such as the swamp they just left where his fire spells wouldn't go off very easily. I have also tried to break up the encounters into several smaller ones throughout the day to eat up his spells per day, and make him use them wisely.
The rest of the players, again, do not seem to mind him playing Wizard, though he does seem to dominate when it comes to encounters. Any advise on how to keep him in check without concentrating on him?

cranewings |
He is right about the magic items. From the old days of 2e back when Wizards were fair and balanced, they couldn't five foot step or make concentration checks and magic items didn't favor casters. A fighter could get a sword of flying no problem by 7th level and no one batted an eye at it. Now days, that's basically impossible with the wealth rules, though wizards can make themselves Rods of Metamagic for chump change.
The wizard, in my opinion only, are unbalanced and too good from level 1. When the smartest player plays the best class you will have a problem. Fighters and rogues got hosed by the prices they put on magic items. The best way to balance things is to change the prices and ignore RAW when it comes to them.
Anything the warriors want, divide the price in half. Anything the wizard would want, triple the price.

krevon |

You could design encounters (environmental more so than monsters) that where he could use a spell cleverly but it's just as easy to let the other members of the group handle things.
As far as monsters to fight, you can give them resistances or add more than the wizard can handle by himself.
Spell components become scarce, or my favorite.....a throw back to the old Baldurs Gate game.....a government that strictly monitors, police, and administers permits to cast spells.

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Stealing his spellbook and/or component pouch are both generally frowned upon, but effective tactics. I would also consider AnitMagic Field cheap and really irritating to everyone (magic items stop functioning inside the circle as well).
Some more reasonable tactics could include:
- Spell Resistance and/or Energy Resistance type monsters (outsiders are big here)
- Magic immune creatures (Constructs mostly) can shrug off most magical effects making the wizard more of an annoyance than a threat.
- Ranged combatant ambush...no wait that is how to kill off unwanted wizards...
- Big bads with good saves and plenty of hp (dragons and Anti/Paladin types are nice here).
- Counterspelling support for your baddies. Either they brought their own caster or just have ring of counterspell type magic items.
- Diviner (as in divination not divinity) caster who knows what defensive spells to prep.
- Tight quarters to avoid AoE(would hit party members as well).
- Undead and mindless enemies to avoid enchantments, ability dmg/drain, and negative levels.
Need to know a bit more about what tactics he uses to make more specific counters for him.

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Now, hold on - when you say "creative," do you mean he munchkins to make his spells (effectively) more powerful? Or does he actually combine spells in unique and interesting ways to create powerful effects? Because while the first can get annoying, the second should definitely be encouraged!
Also, when you say he "dominates combat," do you mean he destroys all the enemies singlehandedly, or he uses good battlefield control to let his teammates destroy them? Again, the former should be discouraged, but the latter encouraged - just make the overall combat more difficult.
To borrow some Magic: the Gathering terminology, I'll put it like this. Some people are "Timmy." Timmy loves big, dramatic effects. He probably doesn't munchkin very much or try to exploit the rules - he just wants to Fireball some ogres, because it's awesome. He probably likes the classic spells (Magic Missile, Fireball, etc.) and enjoys vivid descriptions. He likes to really get into the game and experience being a wizard.
Next is "Johnny." Johnny likes being creative. He likes figuring out cool spell combinations - using Pyrotechnics on his Flaming Sphere, sending earth elementals into his Stinking Cloud, etc. He's the one that suggests singing the giant to sleep so the party can sneak by instead of fighting. He's the one that summons a monster, straps some raw meat to it, and uses it as bait to lure some goblins off of a cliff hidden by Silent Image. He probably knows the rules pretty well, but he isn't as interested in dominating the opponent as he is in simply finding unique solutions to whatever problem you're facing.
Last is "Spike." Spike is the guy that likes to win, and will frequently stretch the rules to their limit to do so - the guy that makes a Crossblooded Sorcerer 1/Admixture Wizard 19 (with severely unbalanced stats) and figures out the right traits to make Burning Hands deal 15 damage at 1st level. He probably knows every monster's weakness, and exploits it mercilessly. He jacks up the DCs of his Glitterdust to 28 and hits every enemy with it. He likes to have the most powerful character he possibly can.
Now, everyone is a mixture of the above 3 personalities. I myself am a Timmy/Johnny, with a pinch of Spike. My point is, though, whatever the type of player your player's wizard is, you shouldn't remove the elements that make it fun for him. Placing constraints is one thing, and it sounds like you've done that a bit already with the reduced magic items; but if he's a Johnny, let him get away with crazy combos, and try not to railroad too much. (E.g., let him lure some of the goblins off the cliff, or maybe all of them, and just use the encounter later - see "Schrodinger's GM") If he's a Timmy, let him have his moment in the limelight when he casts his big spell (even if it doesn't actually do much). If he's a Spike... well, that gets a bit trickier, but definitely don't make him feel too ineffectual. As long as you manage that, you can throw whatever magic-resistant thing you want at him, and he'll still have a good time.

Umbral Reaver |

(stuff about player archetypes)
Don't forget Vorthos, who in this example is probably the kind who builds a wizard whose powers and spells fit into a theme or specific story he or she wants to tell. The most extreme Vorthos will pick themed spells even when there is no reason at all not to have some other handy exceptions on the side.

DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |

A suggestion I have sometimes seen made is make concentration checks harder (this is assuming the player is okay with whatever you do to make the game more challenging for him).
If it's 15+double the spell level, make it 15+triple the spell level, or 25+double the level or what have you.
The second part of this is pay attention to when concentration checks are called for . A lot of times folks remember the "casting defensively" bit but forget all the other times concentration checks need to be made--there's a big list in the magic section. For example, whenever the caster takes continual damage (e.g., bleed, and certain fire and acid effects), or whenever the caster is in extremely inclement weather. Remember and use these conditions--not constantly, but often enough and in places that make sense (and remember stuff like inclement weather can affect other characters by hindering ranged attacks, etc. so you're boosting the challenge for the whole party).
Make sure you use enemies that can get close to and hinder him--grappled, those that can use Stand Still or Step Up to keep him from 5 foot stepping away (and combine with Disruptive and Spellbreaker to make your increased concentration DCs higher).
Finally, pay attention to him and the cool tricks he uses. Write them down.
And throw them right back at him.

Nepherti |

Now, hold on - when you say "creative," do you mean he munchkins to make his spells (effectively) more powerful? Or does he actually combine spells in unique and interesting ways to create powerful effects? Because while the first can get annoying, the second should definitely be encouraged!
Also, when you say he "dominates combat," do you mean he destroys all the enemies singlehandedly, or he uses good battlefield control to let his teammates destroy them? Again, the former should be discouraged, but the latter encouraged - just make the overall combat more difficult.
He can destroy them singlehandedly. I had an encounter planned out where these skeletons lived on the bottom of a swamp, a whole horde of them. The skeletons were under the water, and their MO was to reach up towards the homemade raft (Huck Finn style) the party were on and try to capsize it and pull the party under. The Ranger passed his perception check to see the skeletons before they could swarm the raft. Chem The Wizard stuck his hand in the water and cast Shocking Grasp, claiming that the water mixing with the electricity would send the shock out to a sizable chunk of the skeletons. He also rolled max damage when this happened. The Cleric didn't have a chance to act. I panicked, and, after he took out the first pack of skeletons, hastily changed the encounter to where they would pole their raft through the swamp and every so often a skeleton would make it aboard and they'd have to fling it back into the water.
An example from another game he was in: Mage Hand on the girthstrap of a saddle when a mounted combatant is charging you. Myself, knowing a lot about horses, would have ruled he would have had to make a relatively difficult Disable Device check, especially since it was an Old West setting and the girths on Western saddles are a strap that you tie in a specific pattern, versus the English where it's like a belt buckle. The GM in that game didn't know that, and let him get away with it with just the Mage Hand.

Gignere |
Reynard_the_fox wrote:Now, hold on - when you say "creative," do you mean he munchkins to make his spells (effectively) more powerful? Or does he actually combine spells in unique and interesting ways to create powerful effects? Because while the first can get annoying, the second should definitely be encouraged!
Also, when you say he "dominates combat," do you mean he destroys all the enemies singlehandedly, or he uses good battlefield control to let his teammates destroy them? Again, the former should be discouraged, but the latter encouraged - just make the overall combat more difficult.
He can destroy them singlehandedly. I had an encounter planned out where these skeletons lived on the bottom of a swamp, a whole horde of them. The skeletons were under the water, and their MO was to reach up towards the homemade raft (Huck Finn style) the party were on and try to capsize it and pull the party under. The Ranger passed his perception check to see the skeletons before they could swarm the raft. Chem The Wizard stuck his hand in the water and cast Shocking Grasp, claiming that the water mixing with the electricity would send the shock out to a sizable chunk of the skeletons. He also rolled max damage when this happened. The Cleric didn't have a chance to act. I panicked, and, after he took out the first pack of skeletons, hastily changed the encounter to where they would pole their raft through the swamp and every so often a skeleton would make it aboard and they'd have to fling it back into the water.
An example from another game he was in: Mage Hand on the girthstrap of a saddle when a mounted combatant is charging you. Myself, knowing a lot about horses, would have ruled he would have had to make a relatively difficult Disable Device check, especially since it was an Old West setting and the girths on Western saddles are a strap that you tie in a specific pattern, versus the English where it's like a belt buckle. The GM in that game didn't know that, and let him get away with it...
Your issue is that you are a push over of a GM of a player with a dominant personalty. If I was GM I wouldn't let either of those fly.
Why would you rule that a simple shocking grasp would become a massive AOE just because it is cast in water?
You are making exceptions to the rule because the player is arguing. If the player wants the shocking grasp to be conducted to everything I'll rule that all the players on the raft takes half damage. If these are swamp rafts we are talking about it is probably taking on a bit of water constantly and basically all the players are in contact with the swamp.

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He can destroy them singlehandedly. I had an encounter planned out where these skeletons lived on the bottom of a swamp, a whole horde of them. The skeletons were under the water, and their MO was to reach up towards the homemade raft (Huck Finn style) the party were on and try to capsize it and pull the party under. The Ranger passed his perception check to see the skeletons before they could swarm the raft. Chem The Wizard stuck his hand in the water and cast Shocking Grasp, claiming that the water mixing with the electricity would send the shock out to a sizable chunk of the skeletons. He also rolled max damage when this happened. The Cleric didn't have a chance to act. I panicked, and, after he took out the first pack of skeletons, hastily changed the encounter to where they would pole their raft through the swamp and every so often a skeleton would make it aboard and they'd have to fling it back into the water.An example from another game he was in: Mage Hand on the girthstrap of a saddle when a mounted combatant is charging you. Myself, knowing a lot about horses, would have ruled he would have had to make a relatively difficult Disable Device check, especially since it was an Old West setting and the girths on Western saddles are a strap that you tie in a specific pattern, versus the English where it's like a belt buckle. The GM in that game didn't know that, and let him get away with it...
The mage hand shouldn't have worked at all--from the spell description, it can make a single unattended object weighing five pounds or less move up to 15'. A saddle on a charging horse isn't unattended and weighs more than five pounds, and it really doesn't sound as though the spell is capable of fine work. (Besides, cantrips can't really duplicate each other, and that application largely duplicates open/close.)
Personally, when confronted with the shocking grasp application, I would have divided the damage up among all targets within the caster's touch range. Water isn't really that good a conductor. But that's hindsight.

Nepherti |

I know I'm a pushover and I'm learning. I always have been better with the story part. He's also the only guy who plays casters frequently in our group. Everyone else goes for at most Ranger or Paladin when it comes to casting. I need to do what I should have originally done--let my boyfriend (he plays the Cleric--his first ever Cleric--and is kinda a plot monkey) take over the mechanics and let me tell the story.

Hawktitan |

I agree with some of the posts above. Those two things should never have been let to happen. Shocking Grasp as an AoE? Really? At full damage? First of all unless water is salted then it's a terrible conductor of electricity. I might have let it work simply because it was an interesting idea but even 1/4 damage as an AoE is generous.
The Mage Hand thing should never have happened period. A saddle on a charging horse is in no way 'unattended'. If the horse was just standing there and if the mage had some time then maybe, but it would be slower then walking up and doing it (but sneakier).

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There are two things you need to do. The first is read the Core Rulebook spells section, so you know what the spells he is casting are capable of. Use post-its to make notes on ways in which he has changed or exaggerated the spell when you remember. If you know what the spell does you're in a much better position to not allow him to dominate encounters so ridiculously.
The second thing you need to do is talk to him, and explain that you need to get on the same page as far as rules go. There is a line between allowing creative solutions and allowing him to change the rules based on the need to win.
I like the water conducting electricity one, but as others have said, you should have given provisos. A lot of GMs have trouble getting into the habit of saying "yes", but you may be doing it too much.
Practise saying "yes, but" instead. Work with him to define the way the rules work. "Yes, but the damage will be reduced due to the resistance and the fact that you're spreading out what is typically a touch spell."
"Ordinarily I would let you use mage hand to untie something, but you don't have enough time before the enemy has finished his charge, so I'm not letting you this time."
"You can wear that orc's face as a mask if you like, but I'm going to give you a penalty on your disguise check to pretend to be part of the orc tribe."
If he argues based on how things should go, then you have a problem that can be solved by using the rules strictly as written (with GM caveat of course). Say "no sorry, shocking grasp only works if you're physically touching your single target".

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Yea what everyone else said above me...short of the few spells that specifically say they interact with certain things (web and fire spells or grease and fire spells for example) the game should work as typed. Try not to deviate.
As far as how to help tie things up. I'd suggest using things like poisons and diseases. Arrows with poisons are a great way to tie up the wizard, who should have a pretty crumby Fort save, and also make the cleric feel useful. As was stated above, use some counter spells too. The rules for them really aren't that difficult. You can always try using monks as enemies as well. They are going to have very high will and reflex saves against his spells. Or even rogues/ninjas too. These enemies will be his weakness.

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There's no need to target him specifically in game, because the problem is out of game. Creativity is neat, but bending the rules to take advantage of the GM not knowing how your spells work is not cool. Talking to him about it and learning your stuff are the ways to combat this, not killing his wizard.
After all, he'll just make a summoner, and then where will you be?

Ganryu |

One of the really important things about GMing is knowing when to just say NO to what the players are doing. ESPECIALLY when players are abusing technicalities. I don't mind players doing random crap with mage hand or shocking grasp if it's a non-combat scenario, but Pathfinder is designed to work in a particular way in combat.
If I had been in your place I would've ruled that using shocking grasp on the water would've shocked a few skeletons at random. Not all of them, just a few. It's certainly creative, but it shouldn't be overpowered.

Nepherti |

The Mage Hand thing was not in a game I was in, it was in the last game he played in with our group of friends. Of course, that was a game run by a friend who realized just how quickly things can get derailed by allowing three Orcs in the party.
And I know, I realized when I got home after game that the Shocking Grasp thing shouldn't have happened. That's when I took his spell list and made sure I understood each and every spell. Part of the storyline is that they are the first voyage set out to find this new continent some evidence says exists. They end up shipwrecked and alone, without gear and simply trying to find some semblance of civilization. They camped for a while, hoping to come across some sign of the wreckage, but there was none. They learned from observance that there are species here that they've never seen before. I am now looking in the Bestiary for things that are distinctly different yet look like they might be something native to their Germanic culture (one guy's a Spaniard). The natives also do not have metal, and as of now there is only one metal weapon in play, the Ranger's axe and maybe a few arrowheads.
I know I'm a pushover and by a lot of ya'll's standards I probably shouldn't be GMing. But I want to learn! I come up with these great storylines, yet I don't have a mind that is naturally good at memorizing rules. When I do try to run a game, I look for people who, like the Wizard surprisingly, are actually mostly in it for story. That is why I love this town and my friends; most of them are not Power Gamers or Rules Lawyers. My old group before I moved had a lot of those, and I would always combine my storytelling with my friend (one of the Lawyers) doing the mechanics.
Oh Mighty Gamers of the Paizo Forums mold me into someone who does not need a Mechanics GM at her side! I am not good at memorization, are there any tips to running a smooth game when my mind be not a sponge?

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I would have rolled a d10. "7-10, you hit them all for 1/2 damage. 1-6, the electricity dissipates and since the skeletons are grounded, they take no damage."
I don't even really know how electricity works, but if you want to try something like that, I'm going to make up a rule that I think is fair.

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Apps...there are iPad, iPod and Android apps that have helped me A TON. I have spellbook apps that let me keep a list of prepared spells or even spell lists. I have apps that I can take a picture of my dungeon and keep it as a lay out. I have treasure apps that help me prepare loot. I have apps that give you the ease of flipping through rules from all the released books.
They do come in handy...

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The Mage Hand thing was not in a game I was in, it was in the last game he played in with our group of friends. Of course, that was a game run by a friend who realized just how quickly things can get derailed by allowing three Orcs in the party.
And I know, I realized when I got home after game that the Shocking Grasp thing shouldn't have happened. That's when I took his spell list and made sure I understood each and every spell. Part of the storyline is that they are the first voyage set out to find this new continent some evidence says exists. They end up shipwrecked and alone, without gear and simply trying to find some semblance of civilization. They camped for a while, hoping to come across some sign of the wreckage, but there was none. They learned from observance that there are species here that they've never seen before. I am now looking in the Bestiary for things that are distinctly different yet look like they might be something native to their Germanic culture (one guy's a Spaniard). The natives also do not have metal, and as of now there is only one metal weapon in play, the Ranger's axe and maybe a few arrowheads.
I know I'm a pushover and by a lot of ya'll's standards I probably shouldn't be GMing. But I want to learn! I come up with these great storylines, yet I don't have a mind that is naturally good at memorizing rules. When I do try to run a game, I look for people who, like the Wizard surprisingly, are actually mostly in it for story. That is why I love this town and my friends; most of them are not Power Gamers or Rules Lawyers. My old group before I moved had a lot of those, and I would always combine my storytelling with my friend (one of the Lawyers) doing the mechanics.
Oh Mighty Gamers of the Paizo Forums mold me into someone who does not need a Mechanics GM at her side! I am not good at memorization, are there any tips to running a smooth game when my mind be not a sponge?
Hey, I never said you shouldn't be GMing. I still think you should talk to this player and tell him you can't handle what he's currently doing. Explain how you feel he's wronged you, and that you can't keep track of what all the rules do in the same way he can.
The other thing you should do is get a rules lawyer on your side. Someone who, when a player says "can I do _________?", already has the book open and is reading the rule out so that you can pass judgement. Remember also that if you say "I'm not letting you do that", that's it. There are players who may occasionally be upset with this (actually, I'm sometimes one of them), but tell them that unless it's a life or death matter you will look it up after the game and go with what you think should happen now. Then after the game, have a discussion with the player where you both try to figure out what the rule should have been.
Of course you should GMing! :)

SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |

Just like you wouldn't give a fighter with a speed of 30 six 5 foot steps per round, you shouldn't let a wizard re-write the rules for a specific spell. That's a bit TOO creative. Pathfinder has very good, very narrowly defined spells for a reason. If he wants a short range area effect spell, he should prepare burning hands. If he wants a more damaging, single target spell, he should prepare shocking grasp. But he can't swap out a shocking grasp effect for a burning hands effect on the fly. That steps on the toes of the spontaneous spellcasters, like sorcerers. Or he can invest his resources into scrolls or wands if he wants more spell versatility.
EDIT:
Also, you're the GM. This means you are both the storyteller and the referee. If there is a rules conflict, make an immediate decision (just to keep things rolling), but also be willing to listen to different points of view after the game (or combat, encounter, what have you) is done.
If a "creative" re-interpretation of the rules is going to totally bypass or ruin an important encounter you have planned, don't allow that re-interpretation.
Also, ask for a list of all the spells in the wizard's spellbook, and then read up on them. You don't have to memorize all their rules, but reading up on them will give you ideas of what to expect, what to allow, and what to dis-allow. Shocking grasp is a touch spell, so it can't be used to affect multiple creatures--especially if you are not touching them!
There are enough RAW ways for a spellcaster to mess with planned encounters. I'll never forget the time a high level druid cast reverse gravity for the first time. She targeted a high level homebrew gnoll prestige class, on his homebrew advanced dire lion mount, and totally wrecked several hours of planning. The gnoll and lion were basically floating there, getting shot full of arrows and spells, and I had totally forgotten to give them a ranged weapon, or a rope and grappling hook, etc. etc. It was a little bit of bad planning on my part, but just quick thinking on the druid's part to totally reduce what was supposed to be a nigh-epic battle into a 5 minute encounter.

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I know I'm a pushover and I'm learning. I always have been better with the story part. He's also the only guy who plays casters frequently in our group. Everyone else goes for at most Ranger or Paladin when it comes to casting. I need to do what I should have originally done--let my boyfriend (he plays the Cleric--his first ever Cleric--and is kinda a plot monkey) take over the mechanics and let me tell the story.
Welcome to the GM's world! Don't fret about being new, we all started at some point or another. You're already learning how to handle difficult players, and will certainly make mistakes along the way. We all do, don't stress them.
d20pfsrd is your friend.,especially if you use electronic devices at the table (laptop/tablet/smartphone/etc). Now you don't have to remember all the rules/details, the Internet will remember for you!
A second option (and sometimes even faster): use Google Search for "PRD <insert rule/spell/feat/monster/etc in question>". The Paizo PRD is faster than d20pfsrd, but not as easy to navigate for me, but the search just pops you right onto the item in question.
Also check out "PF Spellbook," an Android app (free, if I'm not mistaken, and possibly on the iPhone as well), which will give you one-touch access to most of the spells in the game, with quite nice indexing features.
My suggestion for the future: don't fixate on the mechanics. Allow the game to progress at the speed you desire, and when "Mr. Wizard" tries some crazy combo that is not spelled out by RAW, disallow it.
Finally, read the "magic" chapter of the Core Rulebook (or on the PRD/d20pfsrd) pretty closely. It can get confusing quickly, so don't try to memorize the whole thing. A solid grasp of how the spells are supposed to work will help to alleviate your trepidation a bit.

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Think of it as a learning experience. My wife still tells the story of the first time she ran a game, and the four players between them had something over thirty years of gaming experience (a bit more impressive than you think, when you consider this was in 1985). We did something she didn't expect and got through the dungeon with far more ease than she anticipated. (She was clever enough to come up with Schrödinger’s DM on her own, and reused the dungeon later...after putting bars on the windows, so we couldn't climb in.)

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There are also general rules that usually apply to spells. A lot of touch spells offer no save; on the other hand you have to make an attack roll in order to pull them off. Because that shocking grasp in the water trick wasn't making an attack roll, it wouldn't have been unreasonable to give each skeleton a fortitude save for half or no damage, even if you had allowed it to shock them all.
Another general rule is that higher level spells should be able to do more than lower level spells. If we look at telekinesis, which is a 5th level wizard spell, we notice that undoing a knot is actually pretty tough even with such a high level spell. Mage hand? Up the check significantly because the wizard is using a clumsy cantrip.

Nepherti |

Apps...there are iPad, iPod and Android apps that have helped me A TON. I have spellbook apps that let me keep a list of prepared spells or even spell lists. I have apps that I can take a picture of my dungeon and keep it as a lay out. I have treasure apps that help me prepare loot. I have apps that give you the ease of flipping through rules from all the released books.
They do come in handy...
Awesome! We have a Kindle Fire, so that would work.
d20pfsrd is your friend.,especially if you use electronic devices at the table (laptop/tablet/smartphone/etc). Now you don't have to remember all the rules/details, the Internet will remember for you!
I already go to the SRD, but the biggest reason I don't use it at the table is the lack of internet a the house we play at.

Josh Hodges |

I, personally, would just look for a simpler system in this situation. If the rules are too complex for your tastes as a GM, either change them, or find different ones, assuming the players aren't totally adverse. There's nothing wrong with running a story heavy rules light game in a rules light rpg. But this is mostly advice for a future game- changing rules mid game is quite a hassle, unless everyone is totally dissatisfied.

Laithoron |

I already go to the SRD, but the biggest reason I don't use it at the table is the lack of internet a the house we play at.
If someone has an iPhone or Droid, there are apps that allow other devices to access the Internet thru them. These include apps that turn the phone into a wireless hotspot, and others where you simply tether your laptop to it via a USB cable. Just ask one of your players to set this up so you can have access to the PRD while at the table.

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Oh. And remember that this is a world of fantasy, so not everything has to function like in the real world. So don't be afraid to step up and say "Thats not how it works". Who is to say that water in the world you are in is the same as water here? Or behaves the same? Or electricity works the same?
;)

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Reynard_the_fox wrote:Now, hold on - when you say "creative," do you mean he munchkins to make his spells (effectively) more powerful? Or does he actually combine spells in unique and interesting ways to create powerful effects? Because while the first can get annoying, the second should definitely be encouraged!
Also, when you say he "dominates combat," do you mean he destroys all the enemies singlehandedly, or he uses good battlefield control to let his teammates destroy them? Again, the former should be discouraged, but the latter encouraged - just make the overall combat more difficult.
He can destroy them singlehandedly. I had an encounter planned out where these skeletons lived on the bottom of a swamp, a whole horde of them. The skeletons were under the water, and their MO was to reach up towards the homemade raft (Huck Finn style) the party were on and try to capsize it and pull the party under. The Ranger passed his perception check to see the skeletons before they could swarm the raft. Chem The Wizard stuck his hand in the water and cast Shocking Grasp, claiming that the water mixing with the electricity would send the shock out to a sizable chunk of the skeletons. He also rolled max damage when this happened. The Cleric didn't have a chance to act. I panicked, and, after he took out the first pack of skeletons, hastily changed the encounter to where they would pole their raft through the swamp and every so often a skeleton would make it aboard and they'd have to fling it back into the water.
An example from another game he was in: Mage Hand on the girthstrap of a saddle when a mounted combatant is charging you. Myself, knowing a lot about horses, would have ruled he would have had to make a relatively difficult Disable Device check, especially since it was an Old West setting and the girths on Western saddles are a strap that you tie in a specific pattern, versus the English where it's like a belt buckle. The GM in that game didn't know that, and let him get away with it...
Ah, see, both of those sound like cheese to me. Good ideas, but the GM should still impose limitations; discharging into water definitely shouldn't be as effective as grasping a single skeleton, and I doubt anyone could untie a knot single-handed on a charging horse, mage hand or no.

Nepherti |

Who is to say that water in the world you are in is the same as water here? Or behaves the same? Or electricity works the same?
;)
Malathar, my sea god, is a CN creator god whom the Known World fears. His domain is salt water, and this is a brackish water swamp. It's naturally going to behave in a chaotic fashion. The swamp itself is slow moving, much like the Everglades only a lot hotter, like Equator hot. No one really lives in the swamp. It runs inland an area that is like the Mexican Jungle, where a Mayan type of culture fear a Lawful Evil god that lives underneath the swamp, so they sacrifice warriors and captives via the historical ball game and throw the bodies off the cliff that overlooks the swamp. Those skeletons I used were the minions of said LE god, and the sacrificed are made to be warriors sent into the swamp to protect the people from Xibalba.

Poor Wandering One |

I second most of what was said here. Use the PRD at the table if you can or reread the magic section now and again to keep it fresh. Apart from that do closely read every spell in their book, no need to memorise but do have a decent grasp on the limitations.
I like having a rules helper at the table. This persons job is to look up rules/spell descriptions etc as an aid to the GM. This can be a good way to bring a somewhat more passive player into the game and can speed things along.
A dead horse I know but I am sick of seeing Mage Hand abused this way. The spell allows you to "...lift.. and move.." an object. That is all. It does not allow you to manipulate an object or allow you to effect only part of an object. You need Unseen Servant or Telekinesis to do that. With mage hand you cannot even turn over a playing card unless there is a surface for you to scrape it against. Think of mage hand not as a hand but rather as a bubble you put around an object. The mage can move the bubble about with some precision but that is it.
Mage hand can open a door but only if the entire door weighs less than 5#. Not many doors are this light.
Mage hand cannot untie anything as it cannot effect only part of an object. For the same reason This spell cannot extiguish a candle.
Now this does not preclude creative use of this spell. You just have to allow for the limitations. For example I have used Mage Hand to extinguish candels. One just lifts them up until the wick is smashed into the ceiling. No chance of fire unless the roof is soaked in oil and you get the needed darkness.
But as I said dead horse.
Overall you are doing a great job by focusing on the story over the rules. The story is the hard part so cut yourself some slack and enlist some player help.

Llywel |

As a player who uses spells unconventionally, I say sticking your hand into water and unleashing electricity to kill your enemies is asking for the GM to say "how much electricity resistance do YOU have?"
Also? what about the fish? I'm pretty sure there are creatures out there *cough* akhana *cough* that regulate creature's life and death that would be upset if people start killing creatures by the thousand for no reason...
just sayin'... just sayin'
or you could try sticking some templates on some monsters and let him figure out what template you've added and what powers it gives the monster he's against...

Wasum |

When shocking hand water the electricity spreads over the surface of a hemisphere - so it decreases its intensity proportional to 1/r². Lets assume the world consists of 5ft cubes:
the square touched takes 100 damage. Now there are 17 adjacent cubes. So everyone in such a cube will take ~6 points of damage.
That means targets that are adjacent to the cube of water he touched take no more than 6% of damage the shocking grasp usually does. If they are further away... yea.
Just to make sure: This assumes electricity how pathfinder uses it and would not be transferable to our world:P
Just keep close to RAW and if a weird situation appears that's not covered there - YOU as DM may think of a plausible way to let it happen - and not your players:P