Summon Monster / Nature Ally lists from Bestiary 2 and 3

[Astral Wanderer]

Since the developers won't update the Summon Monster/Nature Ally lists with the creature from Bestiary 2 and 3, can anyone point me some good homebrew-updated lists? By searching the messageboard I found only a bunch of old links.

[The Red Mage]

Astral Wanderer wrote:

Since the developers won't update the Summon Monster/Nature Ally lists with the creature from Bestiary 2 and 3, can anyone point me some good homebrew-updated lists? By searching the messageboard I found only a bunch of old links.

Dotting. Really surprised these lists weren't updated in the newer Bestiaries. More surprised they weren't updated at all.

[Astral Wanderer]

If you're referring to devs' updating, they openly said they won't update them (link).
Based on that, seems odd that no gamer would do it and share them.
If nothing comes out I'll give it a shot (in some not-so-close future), but I assume someone might already have done it. Just where?

[d20pfsrd.com]

The summon spells on d20pfsrd.com include some alternative summoning options that were presented in various adventure paths. Not exactly what you're looking for but its something.

[Astral Wanderer]

Checked. Thanks. It's something, indeed.

[OldManAlexi]

I was under the impression that the alternative summoning options were only for those adventure paths, not for general use. They aren't really balanced well.

Creating your own summoning lists wouldn't be that hard. The summoning lists were created based on CR. Just look up the CR of the creatures on the list for Summon Monster 3, for example. Then, look up the other monsters of the appropriate type that have that CR. That being said, if you don't have the time, someone else has probably done it by now. Anyone willing to share?

[Distant Scholar]

According to a perusal of d20pfsrd, all standard Summon Monster monsters, with the exception of two of them, fall into this pattern:

SM 1 - CR 1/3 and 1/2
SM 2 - CR 1 [exception: giant centipede is CR 1/2]
SM 3 - CR 2
SM 4 - CR 3 and 4 [exception: grizzly bear is CR 5]
SM 5 - CR 5 and 6
SM 6 - CR 7 and 8
SM 7 - CR 9 and 10
SM 8 - CR 11
SM 9 - CR 13 and 14

Presumably, CR 12 monsters would fit in SM 8. Familiar-type outsiders don't seem to be listed.

Possible alternate summons to follow.

[Distant Scholar]

Bestiary 2 possible other summons:

SM 1 - baboon, badger, giant maggot, monstrous roach, stingray
SM 2 - camel, cave scorpion, compsognathus, giant bee, giant fly, giant gar, giant solifugid, giant tick, manta ray, ram
SM 3 - azer, dire badger, giant toad, thoqqua, triton
SM 4 - accuser devil, crysmal, d'ziriak, giant black widow spider, giant dragonfly nymph, giant whiptail centipede, howler, mobat, sandman, giant dragonfly, gloomwing, megaloceros, parasaurolophus, sicuel solifugid, slicer beetle
SM 5 - achaierai, emperor cobra, giant queen bee, hippopotamus, megatherium, rast, belker, ceustodaemon, giant mosquito, glyptodon, monstrous gar, vulpinal
SM 6 - allosaurus, arsinoitherium, chaos beast, hellcat, hound of Tindalos, monstrous jellyfish, naunet, sceaudinar, shoggti, soul eater, theletos, animate dream, axiomite, denizen of Leng, giant tarantula, goliath stag beetle, hydrodaemon, mihstu, tenebrous worm, tylosaurus
SM 7 - avoral, giant snapping turtle, jyoti, leukodaemon, titan centipede, zelekhut, behemoth hippopotamus, giant anaconda, imentesh, kalavakus, movanic deva, nyogoth, piscodaemon, shield archon, whale
SM 8 - meladaemon, akhana, chernobue, derghodaemon, kolyarut, leonal, monadic deva, omox, shining child
SM 9 - thanadaemon, augnagar, great white whale, handmaiden devil

[Distant Scholar]

Bestiary 3 possible other summons:

SM 1 - flying squirrel, goat, pig, antelope, ghost scorpion, giant crab spider, great horned owl, kangaroo, raccoon, thylacine, vulture
SM 2 - death's head jellyfish, elk, giant gecko
SM 3 - axe beak, foo dog, giant porcupine, giant sea anemone
SM 4 - dimetrodon, giant chameleon, giant rot grub, magmin, aghash, foo lion, giant skunk, giant vulture, pachycephalosaurus, schir, shae, vulnudaemon
SM 5 - archelon, giant ant lion, ogre spider, shadow mastiff, tojanida, cerberi, giant adult ant lion, iguanadon, incubus
SM 6 - adhukait, caulborn, legion archon, megalania, pairaka, shark-eating crab, baluchitherium, deadfall scorpion
SM 7 - upasunda, contract devil, ghawwas, shira
SM 8 - animal lord, aghasura, sapphire jellyfish, spinosaurus, baregara, basilosaurus, coloxus, interlocutor, valkyrie
SM 9 - shipwrecker crab, peri, sepid, tarry demodand

[Astral Wanderer]

Yay! Celestial Pig!

But I think a second check must be done (because summoning things like an Animal Lord sounds quite odd).

[Distant Scholar]

Feel free to check for yourself. (I'm not quite sure why summoning an animal lord is stranger than summoning a xill...)

[MendedWall12]

Now I know what James meant when he said option paralysis. Adding both of those lists to the original list might cause a caster to hem and haw for way too long. If I were going to houserule this I'd sit down with the caster outside of a session, look at the possibilities, and make them narrow down their extra selections to three or four. That way I'm not limiting their possible choices overall, just limiting the list they have to look through during an actual session.

I've been lucky with this, in that the only two casters that can summon in my groups have a favorite creature they like to summon, and they almost always summon that same type.

[Astral Wanderer]

Distant Scholar wrote:

Feel free to check for yourself. (I'm not quite sure why summoning an animal lord is stranger than summoning a xill...)

Some reasons.

Because you could summon an Animal Lord only if his/her level isn't too high (13th, considered a CR 14, would probably be the max, and would be inside the borders of Summon Monster IX).
Because each Animal Lord is a unique being, not a common individual of a given race or kin.
Because an Animal Lord isn't born Outsider, but became one thanks to other powers. Powers that, on a side note, doubtfully would want him/her to be prone to the whims of spellcasters around the world.
Because he/she just has class levels, and further, usually you don't summon a level 7th Barbarian Babau, to say.
Because anyone (not necessarily PCs) who wants to mess with an Animal Lord for some reason could do a wonderful mess by abusing Summon Monster.
Because if you use Summon Monster IX to call 1d3 Animal Lords, aside the oddity in itself, it'd have to be (up to) 3 different specific Animal Lords; provided all of them are level 10th.
Etc.

Technically, you could do it, yes. But can't tell it isn't, at best, odd.

[Midnight_Angel]

MendedWall12 wrote:

If I were going to houserule this I'd sit down with the caster outside of a session, look at the possibilities, and make them narrow down their extra selections to three or four.

Actually, I allow my players to permanently swap up to five creatures from their SM lists with monsters of the same CR (which I have to approve). This way, any summoning caster can call upon a few of his favorites without suffering from option paralysis.