Digital Products Assistant
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Wow.
Gender is stressful and difficult.
Well, the WRONG gender is stressful and difficult. The right one is actually pretty easy.
I am honestly in awe of people who can wait two or more decades to transition. I can't imagine the kinds of coping strategies you'd need to master to play a role that long.
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Digital Products Assistant
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On a more positive note, here is a heartwarming little comic.
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Self-Made Man, I believe, is the book you're referring to.Yeah, I just looked up that title on Wikipedia and that's the one!
Have you read it? What did you think?
I have read it.
I read it in the context of several other books -- Jennifer Finney Boylan's She's Not There, Lisa Diamond's Sexual Fluidity, and Jamison Green's Becoming a Visible Man, so I tend to remember it as a component of a reading binge that gave me one angle of the insight I got from that collection, rather than as a distinct book.
I waited what many of my friends seemed to consider an eternity to start dating, and upon getting into a relationship with a man, I started worrying that the insight I had into the differences between the way men and women experience the world, which had felt sufficient for empathizing and communicating with men as friends and colleagues, might not be sufficient for doing so with a romantic partner.
There's a ton of stuff out there presented as guides for women to male behavior written by men (which are trying to translate male understanding of male behavior in a way that makes sense for women), guides for women to male behavior written by women (which are speculating about male understanding), and vice versa, but I figured the best way to learn about the differences and similarities was to go to people who'd been both (hormonally and in how society treated them, at least), and who could talk about those differences and similarities from experience. (For example, Jennifer Finney Boylan's descriptions of how differently she experienced her surroundings with and without a "testosterone shield" was very helpful to me in understanding behavior from men in my life that I viewed as baffling and incredibly imprudent.)
Trying to separate out how I felt about Self-Made Man in particular, I thought it was really good insight into the differences in the way the world treats you when it thinks you're male versus when it thinks you're female, and into the differences in male and female support structures.
The overall impression I got from it, though, was that being a man, for all its privilege, is ultimately a pretty sad and lonely endeavor. I think the point was important, but that Vincent was clearly focusing on certain subsets of men (generally the ones to whom the modern conception of "masculinity," stunted as it is, is marketed most cynically), but it also didn't ring entirely true for me. It felt like she was exploring one corner of what it means to be a man -- a very white, working-class (and frankly, insecure) one -- and treating it as monolithic.
The men who have been most prominent in my life, I believe, certainly have experienced periods of loneliness, but they also have in part (for me at least) been defined by their capacity for joy and contentment and connection. Their friendships may have been different from mine, but they have not been shy or inarticulate in discussing feelings of vulnerability or uncertainty, or in recognizing and valuing connection. But those men have, by and large, been a generation older than me, married, financially successful and respected in both their careers and social lives; all of which is to say, they didn't have a lot to prove and thus had the luxury of not being overly concerned with performing masculinity. They're likely no more representative than Vincent's sampling, but I didn't see anyone like them in her book.
The difference between them and what they viewed as masculinity, and the men Vincent interacted with and that conception, I think, is one of understanding the difference between the signifier and the signified. Vincent's men seemed to view things like being dominant or being respected or whatever, in and of themselves, as signifiers of masculinity, but their understanding of it didn't provide any sort of guidance on how to get those things. So they bought into the sort of Dodge-ad immaturity being marketed to young and insecure men -- that they must attempt to enforce dominance and respect through anger, through violence, through misogyny, through racism. Whereas most of the men I grew up with viewed masculinity as things like standing behind your obligations (a man's word is his bond), being good at what you do, being calm under pressure, being the one to solve problems, being rational when other people got angry. The result of meeting those ideals was respect and the willingness of other people to follow or be subordinate to them, but those were the results of meeting the goals, not the goals themselves. (Not that that view of masculinity doesn't come with its own unrealistic expectations and pressures and problems, but it is, I think, more fluid and leaves room for more individuality than the one Vincent's men were clinging to.)
So, like I said, I found it useful and insightful as a piece of the picture, but I'd hesitate to view it as holding Great Truths About Men.
Fascinating.
I stand by my earlier comment regarding gender - there is a lot of stupid out there that men have to go through that's often ignored when it isn't encouraged. Growing up as an only child surrounded/raised by the opposite gender, I got a first hand look at a lot of stupidity that was often ignored. It terrified me regarding the possibility of raising a daughter alone. What would I miss? What would I expect that was stupid? How would I handle puberty? What if my daughter was gay? Trans? Or phobic? A bigot? As I got to know many of the different people who raised me as people and less as monolithic authority figures, I began to notice their failings and worried about how my own would affect my children.
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I found Self-Made Man showed me some differences I hadn't realised before. The scene when bowling when the place went silent because someone was about to roll a 300, how astonished she was that even his opponents were cheering for him. She thought that rival women would be more likely to throw banana skins than help a rival.
Also, the time when she tried to chat up some women in a nightclub. She was amazed at how difficult the women made a simple conversation; she'd been talking to women her whole life without any problem, what was wrong here? As soon as she revealed she was a woman then they changed straight away! She didn't realise how hard women make it for men to approach them in that context.
Definately not the whole story, but useful nonetheless.
I found Self-Made Man showed me some differences I hadn't realised before. The scene when bowling when the place went silent because someone was about to roll a 300, how astonished she was that even his opponents were cheering for him. She thought that rival women would be more likely to throw banana skins than help a rival.
Also, the time when she tried to chat up some women in a nightclub. She was amazed at how difficult the women made a simple conversation; she'd been talking to women her whole life without any problem, what was wrong here? As soon as she revealed she was a woman then they changed straight away! She didn't realise how hard women make it for men to approach them in that context.
Definately not the whole story, but useful nonetheless.
indeed.
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Digital Products Assistant
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Any thoughts on this news story.
I find the issue of cisgender men playing trans women to be... extremely problematic. I find the idea of denying trans actresses work in favor of cis performers to tell OUR stories, when trans actors are already so vastly underrepresented to be cissexist (ie: treating cisgender people as the "default" and "normal," and hence everything is a variation on their experience). I find the notion of using a MAN to play a woman to be extremely degendering and dehumanizing, and revealing how the filmmakers view trans women. I feel that repeated comments from this particular cis actor insulting and belitting trans women shows a profound lack of empathy and understanding for a role he was hired to portray. And I find the sudden outpouring of love from other cis people patting this cis actor on the back for how "great" and "progressive" he is to be frustratingly typical.
I have very strong feelings about this phenomenon in general, and Dallas Buyers Club specifically, and will refrain from commenting further.
I see.
How do you feel about stages where there are no gender, and everyone must play the role they draw? I had that in junior high school and it taught me a lot about acting like overall.
I have no idea what you're describing.I see.
How do you feel about stages where there are no gender, and everyone must play the role they draw? I had that in junior high school and it taught me a lot about acting like overall.
you've never seen that before? It's something like where all the roles for a rather short play are put into a hat and you play what you draw. It was the first time I ever played a female role and the teacher was very serious about me not worrying about it - it was a role and I needed to get outside of myself.
I ask because that was the lens I was viewing him playing the role through - i had no idea it was viewed offensively. Would you be interested in talking to him and the director if you had the chance?
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Digital Products Assistant
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you've never seen that before? It's something like where all the roles for a rather short play are put into a hat and you play what you draw. It was the first time I ever played a female role and the teacher was very serious about me not worrying about it - it was a role and I needed to get outside of myself.I have no idea what you're describing.I see.
How do you feel about stages where there are no gender, and everyone must play the role they draw? I had that in junior high school and it taught me a lot about acting like overall.
I've never seen anything like this, but I've only had a few acting classes.
I think it general it's a fine exercise. It's healthy to put yourself in others' shoes. Psychotherapy uses a similar technique to help teach empathy. And in a situation like this, who gets what role isn't a conscious decision and no one is being denied a role or excluded in favor of an actor with more advantages. I think my only real concern would be in the case of someone who has trauma related to portraying a cross-gender role, like some trans people. That would be sort of like forcing a rape survivor to play Lavinia in Titus Andronicus.
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A lot of awesome stuff...
I think, when looking at that stuff, there is an expectation to not look very much further than the surface of things unless you've been in it. It is little more than a taste generally speaking. Especially, as in the case of Self-made Man(I would imagine as I've not read the book.) I've spoken before about people, when transitioning, often taking a lot of gender baggage from their years pretending to be what they aren't and not being included where they should be. Sometimes that even includes internalized misogyny and other junk. In other words, much of the time, young trans people I've met have an image of what women should be and they try to match that image, even if it is detrimental to them. It takes a lot of guts and introspection to figure all of that out but most of us get there. A big part of being trans is shaking out all of the stuff that isn't really you and being honest with yourself so it's not a huge stretch. I can't imagine though, that someone who is only in it for a little while is in fact, quite as invested in learning as a trans person tends to be.
Also, a lot of the things that Jessica describes as the ideal of masculinity that she remembered are things that you see a lot more in men who are fathers I feel. They, I think, tend to think more on the positive aspects of what it means to be men, in that they think "This is what I want to teach others what it means to be men," rather than "This is what it means to me to men." Maybe that's not true, I don't know but an awful lot of growing up a male in a society of children is hierarchy and when you're a kid and mostly made out of id, that means bravery and strength which translates to doing some incredibly stupid things to impress others. Once you have to think about consequences, strength and bravery begin to have other meanings and become much more nuanced. I would probably suggest that young men and the just massive amount of testosterone that is coursing through their bodies also create a lot of behavioral problems. It's probably that my experiences are extremely weird BECAUSE I'm trans and things made less sense to me but again, I tried to grok my predicament to survive it, if that makes sense.
I hesitate to really make broad statements. I assume my experiences are colored by my psyche which is different than others with my experiences. =) However I can speak to my observations since much of my life I was surviving by analyzing and emulating. A lot of trans women and men speak a lot about how weird the wrong hormones going through your head are and I don't think you discount that. It's interesting to listen to Transmen and Transwomen talk about how Testosterone for instance works on their mind. Many Transmen find it relaxing... balancing maybe whereas most transwomen consider it this screaming itch in their brain that won't go away. Tesosterone is an extremely potent chemical and the amounts that course through your veins at youth color your views. I remember one of the most striking things about HRT was how I suddenly found myself with an extra 2 hours in a day. Testosterone made my emotional highs extremely high and my emotional lows extremely low but emotion was not as persistent; it didn't last as long. So anger could come quite suddenly whereas without it, it came slower but built up over time. My ability to focus changed a little. I found it a little easier to switch between tasks but a little more difficult to get into a task. I had trouble sleeping at night with estrogen; I had a harder time shutting off my brain for bedtime. Those are a few of the things I attribute specifically to the hormone cocktail I was exposed to. With HRT, estrogens and progesterones(which are not always prescribed for some reason) going through the system are isolated. There are three separate but distinct types of estrogen and HRT generally only supplies the one that seems to be the most outwardly expressive. So there could be some missing effects that I will never experience but by and large the differences were kind of subtle and yet startling at times. So at least with self-made man,since she wasn't on T for that, I'm not sure her experiences hold a lot of water. It's an interesting perspective but I'd have a hard time seeing it as more than a surface examination, like a wild life video.
I see your view of testosterone a lot in my best friend. He gets mad at the drop of a hat, and forgets his anger just as quickly. Me? I stew and plan revenge - i can hold a grudge forever. I always wondered if our upbringing caused that difference in us or if that was just us as people.
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I ask because that was the lens I was viewing him playing the role through - i had no idea it was viewed offensively. Would you be interested in talking to him and the director if you had the chance?
Men playing trans women is extremely offensive, but is so commonplace that a lot of trans women feel guilty or selfish for having a problem with it. But you would never imagine a major motion picture hiring a cisgender man to play a cisgender woman (Jon Travolta's reprisal of Divine in the Hairspray remake notwithstanding, and even there it was played as absurd), but the general public is fine with a cisgender man playing a trans woman. What does that say about the public perception of trans women? There are trans actresses out there in need of work, but Hollywood tells us time and time again that we can't tell our own stories as well as a cisgender white man can.
I... don't think sitting down with Leto or Valee would matter. They've been told many times that what they did was wrong and brush off the criticism. They have a variety of excuses for their actions. Thankfully, attitudes like this in major media figures are starting to get called out, and other public figures like David Willis and Gail Simone are willing to listen, apologize, and try harder, and awesome trans women like Laverne Cox are finally getting some attention, so hopefully the sun is setting on this practice.
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I... don't think sitting down with Leto or Valee would matter. They've been told many times that what they did was wrong and brush off the criticism. They have a variety of excuses for their actions. Thankfully, attitudes like this in major media figures are starting to get called out, and other public figures like David Willis and Gail Simone are willing to listen, apologize, and try harder, and awesome trans women like Laverne Cox are finally getting some attention, so hopefully the sun is setting on this practice.
I'm... less vociferous about this one. I think there are times when it is ok, for instance showing someone at the beginning of transition. Laverne Cox specifically had her twin brother do the transition scenes in Orange is the New Black and I think that's pretty ideal. If the goal is to point and laugh at the dude trying to be a girl then that's not ok on a variety of levels. In Soldiers Girl, they got a guy to play Calpernia and she was a consultant on that film because it was a slice of her life and I would be really interested to see how she felt on it. She's a casting director now so she's in a position to make some positive changes there. That said, I'm almost more insulted by them finding a cisgendered woman to play the part of the Surprise Transgendered girl(but I also just really hate that trope), but again depends on the circumstances.
This wound up being much longer than I'd intended, as I tried to lay out my thoughts on the subject. (Also, I have a heavy teaching day tomorrow, so if the conversation moves forward, I won't be able to respond for a bit. So I'll just say ahead of time that I hope nothing I say here causes offense. I'm ready to discuss it if it does.)
First, here's a quote I found from Laverne Cox on the subject:
Cox’s success may also encourage producers to cast transgender actors in these emerging transgender roles. Often, cisgender actors are cast for roles as trans characters. “I love it when non-trans actors get to play a trans role that brings humanity and depth to the character,” said Cox. She praised Hilary Swank’s performance in Boys Don’t Cry, Felicity Huffman’s in TransAmerica, and Kerry Washington’s in Life Is Hot in Cracktown. “At the same time,” she said, “as an actor, I want to play everything.”
“I’ve been on set with actors who are amazing, and I think I’m just as good as they are. But they work more than I do because there’s more roles written for them,” Cox added.
Speaking (very) personally, I'm deeply ambivalent about cis actors playing trans people. I don't necessarily feel offended or angered by it, though sometimes I am. More frequently, I am. (Edit to add: Frustrated is probably a better word.)
I agree with much of what Crystal is saying in her posts, particularly:
I find the idea of denying trans actresses work in favor of cis performers to tell OUR stories, when trans actors are already so vastly underrepresented to be cissexist (ie: treating cisgender people as the "default" and "normal," and hence everything is a variation on their experience).
And:
But you would never imagine a major motion picture hiring a cisgender man to play a cisgender woman ... but the general public is fine with a cisgender man playing a trans woman. What does that say about the public perception of trans women? There are trans actresses out there in need of work, but Hollywood tells us time and time again that we can't tell our own stories as well as a cisgender white man can.
And I think the pushback that Leto is receiving might be useful for getting this idea out to the general public (depending on how it's reported).
For me personally, though, there are sometimes a few possible mitigating factors, depending on the specifics of the film.
When the film was made is the biggest one. Seeing a male cisgendered actor in Different for Girls (1996) or The World According to Garp (1982) is easier for me to take than seeing one in a more recent film, in a film shot in a period where I expect there to be greater trans awareness (and I'm guessing more trans actors, though I don't know if that's actually the case).
The quality of the character and the degree to which the performance is respectful to trans people is another. Though, again, that's a bigger factor the older the film is. I appreciated what Steven Mackintosh was going for when playing Kim in Different for Girls, and I appreciate how the character is treated by the film (though some elements of the film are problematic, particularly the last four or five scenes). I thought Lee Pace's performance in Soldier's Girl (2003) was actually pretty good, though like Lissa, I do wonder how Addams felt about it. I can't remember if she discusses it on the DVD commentary track.
But if either of those films was made now, 17 years later and 10 years later, respectively, I think there should be a trans actor in both roles, and I think, currently, that the role Leto played in Dallas Buyer's Club should have gone to a trans actor.
And intention fits in there somewhere, though again, less and less the more recent the film.
I agree with Lissa that the "Surprise Transgendered girl" is often insulting. And that a cis actor is more acceptable if the character is at the start of transition. (I'd also love to see trans characters in films where transition doesn't figure into the plot, or the backstory.)
And I think the publicity and advertising around the film is important as well. One thing that really bothered me about Transamerica was the DVD box, which had a lenticular cover that alternated between Felicity Huffman in character and Felicity Huffman out of character as her usual self. Like it was supposed to be saying "What a performance! Look what she put herself through!" or "Don't worry, she's not really transgender. Look how pretty and smiling she really is."
Going back to Leto, I haven't seen the film yet (have to wait for DVD), so I don't want to say anything about how well the character was constructed (though I haven't heard good things) or how well-intentioned his performance was. I know he screwed up in his Golden Globes speech, and his immediate response to the woman discussed in the article posted above misses out on the power-differential and opportunity differential between cis and trans actors. (Edit to add: And the need for self-representation, that is representation of a minority or disadvantaged or neglected group by people in that group.) But he did talk to the woman backstage afterwards - I'd love to hear that conversation - which seems to indicate that he's willing to listen on the issue. And back during the film's theatrical run, prior to the awards season, Leto was on The View, and every time Barbara Walters referred to Rayon (the trans character) as "he" or "him," Leto corrected her and said it's "she" and "her," so he gets it to a degree at least.
I don't know, I need to see the film and read more interviews with him (I've got an issue of Variety with a cover interview with him that I haven't gotten to yet) to see what I think in this particular case, particularly in terms of how and where I'll direct any anger or frustration I have.
I do hope that this is the last time this happens, though I'm sure it won't be.
I'm a bit ambivalent about how Transparent, the new Amazon.com TV series, is going to turn out. There's a cis actor in the trans role (Jeffrey Tambor), but the show starts with him coming out to his adult kids, so I don't know. I had a chance to hear the show's creator, Jill Soloway, talk about it (she's an alum from the department I teach in, and was visiting), and it's clear from that talk that her heart's in the right place, and that she's well-versed in queer issues and issues of representation. I hope the show gets things right. But again, we need more trans actors in trans roles.
I hope public discussion about the issue, along with the visibility that Laverne Cox has had lately, and the work done in the media by Cox, Janet Mock, Laura Jane Grace and others (along with the Dr. V debacle, the Katie Couric thing, and now the Piers Morgan thing) help push forward how we're portrayed and discussed in the media, both fictional and non-fictional. I hope opportunities for education are capitalized upon, that those seeds take root, and I hope that brings about real results, and real, lasting change in depictions of trans people. I think that if that does happen, it'll improve the environment future generations of trans people will be able to grow up in.
(And Crystal, I hope you don't take any offense at my various dissents from what you and so many others have rightly been saying about the issue. I greatly respect what you have to say about this stuff.)
One thing I wonder...
You see all of these comedies, and even a few serious movies, where men play women. Robin Williams took it to the next level and played a man pretending to be a woman to babysit his own kids. Then there's been the number of times women have played men (Peter Pan, in fact, was traditionally a role cast for women).
So why can't a trans play a trans?
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I actually, generally, avoid new media on the subject specifically because I find it cringe-worthy and it's one of the few things that triggers my old feelings of dysphoria. Orange is the New Black handled it extremely well, though, so there is something to say to that I feel. But by and large, I find little realness about the characters and I feel we're at a place where it is time to tell real stories and not just make us caricatures. Currently, the best media I know of is also the most depressing. I actually knew pretty well at one point the star of Transamerican Love Story and I still can't bring myself to watch it.
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I enjoyed reading this topic. It really has opened my eyes up and helped me understand more.
One thing I wonder...
You see all of these comedies, and even a few serious movies, where men play women. Robin Williams took it to the next level and played a man pretending to be a woman to babysit his own kids. Then there's been the number of times women have played men (Peter Pan, in fact, was traditionally a role cast for women).
So why can't a trans play a trans?
Maybe...a lack of transgender actors? There aren't that much transgender roles to begin with.
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Assistant Software Developer
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Maybe...a lack of transgender actors? There aren't that much transgender roles to begin with.One thing I wonder...
You see all of these comedies, and even a few serious movies, where men play women. Robin Williams took it to the next level and played a man pretending to be a woman to babysit his own kids. Then there's been the number of times women have played men (Peter Pan, in fact, was traditionally a role cast for women).
So why can't a trans play a trans?
There are plenty transgender women and men in hollywood that can't get roles even for transgendered roles. That is not the problem. Fact is, if you are transgendered and out at all, then you are not wanted for roles of your own gender, nor of the gender you acted in before coming out, and 98% of the roles for transgendered men and women go to cis men and women.
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Digital Products Assistant
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Maybe...a lack of transgender actors? There aren't that much transgender roles to begin with.One thing I wonder...
You see all of these comedies, and even a few serious movies, where men play women. Robin Williams took it to the next level and played a man pretending to be a woman to babysit his own kids. Then there's been the number of times women have played men (Peter Pan, in fact, was traditionally a role cast for women).
So why can't a trans play a trans?
There are tons and tons of talented trans performers. Don't put this problem on us.
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Assistant Software Developer
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There are tons and tons of talented trans performers. Don't put this problem on us.Maybe...a lack of transgender actors? There aren't that much transgender roles to begin with.One thing I wonder...
You see all of these comedies, and even a few serious movies, where men play women. Robin Williams took it to the next level and played a man pretending to be a woman to babysit his own kids. Then there's been the number of times women have played men (Peter Pan, in fact, was traditionally a role cast for women).
So why can't a trans play a trans?
Speaking of people in hollywood with a disadvantage for getting parts, if anyone hasn't seen it, I suggest checking out My Gimpy Life. She played a character in the guild and then did a web series about some of her experiences. She's doing second season soon. I keep thinking she should add a transgender woman to the cast.
There are tons and tons of talented trans performers. Don't put this problem on us.Maybe...a lack of transgender actors? There aren't that much transgender roles to begin with.One thing I wonder...
You see all of these comedies, and even a few serious movies, where men play women. Robin Williams took it to the next level and played a man pretending to be a woman to babysit his own kids. Then there's been the number of times women have played men (Peter Pan, in fact, was traditionally a role cast for women).
So why can't a trans play a trans?
What problem?
I have no problem with that. If you think there's a problem perhaps it is your problem.|
Digital Products Assistant
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There are tons and tons of talented trans performers. Don't put this problem on us.What problem?
I have no problem with that. If you think there's a problem perhaps it is your problem.
The problem I specifically meant was trans performers not being hired to portray trans characters. There are many trans actors and actresses who intimately understand the emotions that go into such a role, so the reason for trans representation is not difficulty finding trans performers to fill those roles.
Whether intended or not, saying maybe casting directors can't find trans performers implies that this is a problem on the transgender side for not being available enough or talented enough, rather than a bias within the industry.
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The problem of Transgender actors and actresses getting passed over for transgender roles. The problem isn't the lack of transgender performers in Hollywood, as you hypothesized. It's a lack of willingness to use them by Hollywood executives. It's casting Felicity Huffman and Lee Pace in transgender roles, rather than actors who are actually transgender. It's casting Jared Leto instead of Candis Cane.
Thought exercise:
There are tons and tons of talented female directors. Don't put this problem on us.Maybe...a lack of female directors? There aren't that many movies aimed at female audiences to begin with.One thing I wonder...
You see all of these comedies, and even a few serious movies, where men direct movies aimed at women.
So why can't a woman direct a movie aimed at female audiences?
What problem?
I have no problem with that. If you think there's a problem perhaps it is your problem.
*eyebrow lift*
How does that read now?
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Digital Products Assistant
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Would I know the names of any of these trans actors? I'm not aware of a huge pool of them, just waiting to be ignored!
If they aren't 'out' then how do you know who they are or how many?
There are a lot of trans actors who ARE out: Calpernia Addams, Adèle Anderson, Erica Andrews, Carla Antonelli, Alexis Arquette, Estelle Asmodelle, Alexandra Billings, Maddie Blaustein, Alejandra Bogue, Candis Cayne, Chen Lili, Jamie Clayton, Roberta Close, Coccinelle, Elizabeth Coffery, Caroline Cossey, Laverne Cox, Bobby Darling, Candy Darling, Tista Das, Florencia De La V, Victoria Elizabeth, Bülent Ersoy, Bibiana Fernández, Dorce Gamalama, BB Gandanghari, Francis García, Romy Haag, Harisu, Alina María Hernández, Stacey Hollywood, Andrea James, Jin Xing, Christine Jorgensen, Karpaga, Lady Catiria, Lee Si-yeon, Mina Orfanou, Treechada Petcharat, Eva Robins, Antonia San Juan, Harmony Santana, Krystal Summers, Rose Venkatesan, Ajita Wilson, Helen Wong, and Holly Woodlawn
And those are only the widely-known ones. For every person on this list, there are going to be a dozen more starving you hopefuls sitting in the files of agents and casting directors, being passed over.
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Would I know the names of any of these trans actors? I'm not aware of a huge pool of them, just waiting to be ignored!
If they aren't 'out' then how do you know who they are or how many?
I doubt you would know many of them. They have largely been pushed into obscurity. Laverne Cox is one. She has gained a lot of notoriety for playing a transgendered woman in Orange is the New Black and for good reason. Caroline Cossey is another well known trans model/actress. But there are plenty of others out there. I met several when I was out in LA for the Vagina Monologues. Calpernia Addams is one. Lee Pace played her in her own story. She's been in a couple of things. She's been performing since she was 13. Transgendered women are out there with talent auditioning for parts. The fact that you don't see them is part of the problem. Cal is where I get most of my information on that industry.
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Well that's their loss, I likes our wise and terrible Digital Products Assistant.Those skills have NOT been lost on her DMing either.
Which? The modelling or the acting? Because I think my dead, disaffected stare is really useful when dealing with players.
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was that blue steel or el tigre?
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Interesting, Crystal it's made me look at movies like Priscilla differently. A very rough analog is the white British actor Ben Kingsley playing Gandhi, when there were so many accomplished Indian actors available. Or casting a Chinese actress in a Japanese role in Memoirs of a Geisha (because all Asians are the same in the eyes of Hollywood).
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Assistant Software Developer
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Interesting, Crystal it's made me look at movies like Priscilla differently. A very rough analog is the white British actor Ben Kingsley playing Gandhi, when there were so many accomplished Indian actors available. Or casting a Chinese actress in a Japanese role in Memoirs of a Geisha (because all Asians are the same in the eyes of Hollywood).
That crap happens all of the time and it's infuriating. Every time I see a white guy playing an asian guy, it makes my skin crawl. How is that ok? It's not exactly the same thing with transpeople but it's pretty close.
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Interesting, Crystal it's made me look at movies like Priscilla differently. A very rough analog is the white British actor Ben Kingsley playing Gandhi, when there were so many accomplished Indian actors available. Or casting a Chinese actress in a Japanese role in Memoirs of a Geisha (because all Asians are the same in the eyes of Hollywood).That crap happens all of the time and it's infuriating. Every time I see a white guy playing an asian guy, it makes my skin crawl. How is that ok? It's not exactly the same thing with transpeople but it's pretty close.
Hate to nitpick on this but Ben Kingsley (born Krishna Pandit Bhanji) is about as white as Barack Obama. British yes.
Cool I stand corrected and slightly embarrassed. Not the first time I have made an arse of myself and not the last time I will either.
Researched BK now, interesting life.
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Assistant Software Developer
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That crap happens all of the time and it's infuriating. Every time I see a white guy playing an asian guy, it makes my skin crawl. How is that ok? It's not exactly the same thing with transpeople but it's pretty close.Hate to nitpick on this but Ben Kingsley (born Krishna Pandit Bhanji) is about as white as Barack Obama. British yes.
Oh I was thinking in general not in particular with Ben Kingsley. That brought to mind the recent Keanu Reeves samurai movie and I think the worst case I've seen being is in Remo Williams although Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's is also extremely offensive. Also, the last airbender was just.... really? So those were my contexts. =)
Interesting, Crystal it's made me look at movies like Priscilla differently. A very rough analog is the white British actor Ben Kingsley playing Gandhi, when there were so many accomplished Indian actors available. Or casting a Chinese actress in a Japanese role in Memoirs of a Geisha (because all Asians are the same in the eyes of Hollywood).
To be fair to Hollywood they're not alone in doing that - John Woo cast a Japanese actor to play a Chinese character in The Battle of Red Cliff
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Oh I was thinking in general not in particular with Ben Kingsley. That brought to mind the recent Keanu Reeves samurai movie and I think the worst case I've seen being is in Remo Williams although Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's is also extremely offensive. Also, the last airbender was just.... really? So those were my contexts. =)That crap happens all of the time and it's infuriating. Every time I see a white guy playing an asian guy, it makes my skin crawl. How is that ok? It's not exactly the same thing with transpeople but it's pretty close.Hate to nitpick on this but Ben Kingsley (born Krishna Pandit Bhanji) is about as white as Barack Obama. British yes.
Those are very good points, but at least in 47 Ronin it specifically says Keanu's character is half-British so that takes off some of the blunt.
Happens with deaf characters and actors, too. Rage!
Casting and stuff in Hollywood needs to be reworked. I know there is something up with individual studios and agreements with unions, but it shouldn't keep people away from roles.
Is ok to still like Priscilla but acknowledge its faults, I was almost in the movie.... The crowd scene where they are saying goodbye out the front of the Imperial hotel (a real place with real shows) and two blocks up from where I used to live.
Cool!!