Hey everyone, I'm here today to ask for a bit of help with a pickle I've found myself in. I'm a first time player and think I neutered my character.
During char creation for attributes we did the d6 rolling method and I had some pretty good rolls. I'm a rogue so I invested heavily in Dex (19), Char (17), Con (13) Wis (15) Int (10) and then used strength as a dump stat and gave it a 10.
As a halfling, I take a -2 to strength giving me a strength of 8 and modifier of -2.
I figured I'd overcome this by taking weapon finesse, getting to use my dex mod instead for attack rolls. At level 3, I took agile maneuvers to boost my CMB.
At our session last night, while calculating damage, someone pointed out I had made a mistake.
Turns out, I was adding my dex instead of strength on damage rolls, giving my sickle 1d4+4 instead of adding the +4 to my d20 attack roll.
It was an honest mistake, but looking at my options now, my -2 strength really hurts my damage output, 1d4 (common amongst simple small weapons)-2 means I'm NEVER going to hit over three damage unless I have sneak attack.
Now here come my calculated numbers that I think are accurate, if not, please let me know.
Sickle 1d4
Attack Roll: d20+2+4*+1
Attack Roll Simplified: D20+6
Damage: 1d4-2
*Dex Courtesy of weapon finesse
Crossbow, heavy 1d8
Attack roll: d20+2+4+1+0 (First Increment)+1 (masterwork)
Attack Roll: Simp: d20+7
Damage:1d8 (-2?)*
Sling staff, halfling 1d6
Attack roll: d20+2+4+1+0 (First increment)
Attack Roll Simp: d20+6
Damage: 1d6 (-2?)*
*Projectile Weapons:If the character has a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when he uses a bow or a sling. - Does this apply to a crossbow and sling staff too or are they different?
Then to round out my stat equations to make sure they're right:
CMB = 2 + 4 -1
= 5
BAB+ Agile Maneuvers DEX+ Size
CMD = 10 + 2 -2 + 4 -1 + 1*
CMD = 10 + Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + Dexterity modifier + special size modifier + miscellaneous modifiers (*dodge)
CMD= 14
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I feel like this -2 strength mod effectively neuters my combat options, making me rely on sneak attacks for anything above neglible damage, especially if the -2 penalty impacts the sling staff and crossbow. So short of leveling up my Str, or investing thousands of gold in attribute boosting items, is there a weapon/ feat that could fill this gap? Thanks for any help, sorry if it's a long post, I have a habit of rambling and have been up a few too many hours.
You will rely on sneakattack anyway. Thats the only way rogues can do at least some damage. The STR-penalty isnt great but the difference of 1 point of damage is just not that important.
There is the option to take Dervish Dance as a feat in order to add DEX to damage-rolls, but that way you could not dual wield two weapons. The other and probably better option is to get agile weapons.
Pick TWF and go for two agile sickles (if you really want to wield sickles) or otherwise just take a bow instead (even though its harder to sneak that way).
Why did you want to increase yourb CMB? Going for CB isnt a good option for rogues at all - which one do you want to pick? I'd swap out that feat and take the TWF chain with your stats.
And why did you put 17 to CHA:O
With those stats you could have made are REALLY effective rogue (even though rogues are not the greatest combat-class).
Something like 19 STR, 17 DEX, 15 CON, 13 INT, 10 Wis and 10 Cha would be awesome. maybe swap int and wis.
You would at least be able to compete.
TWF-chain, power attack and some more rogue stuff and you could slay like hell!
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Lacking that, if you switch to scimitar (traditionally a better weapon anyway, unless it's flavor that has you as a sickle wielder), dervish dance is a feat that does the exact thing (requires 2 ranks of perform (dance), an easy rogue buy; as well as weapon Finessee).
Suck it up. You have a good build. The difference of a few points of damage on a hit won't be what makes your character memorable.
And, as said above, you're going after sneak attack anyways. Get a crossbow, or a wand.
Thanks guys, I knew you could help :)
I'm not a dual wielder by nature so the dervish dance is worth looking into, granted I could look at TWF instead. Looks like ranged I'll be going crossbow :)
I have craft poisons but it was a late addition to it's not fully fleshed out. As it's my first char, I'm not expecting it to be optimized, but I want to be as helpful as possible and with just one front liner, I like having the melee option.
I boosted CMB a bit so I could help out with trips, but I'll see how much of a rewrite the DM is down for and maybe swap out to TWF and agile sicles, it could be fun :)
Thanks for the feedback, I'm sure he's rife with newbie mistakes but he's fun to play and essential to the party (which makes me feel special). I went with a high charisma as I'm our face, plus he's a charming rogue :D
It just was a big drop from 1d4+4+2d6 to 1d4-2+2d6 from round 1 to round 2 so I walked away feeling really broken, but maybe it's not so bad, and you're help will ensure he continues to shine :D
Thanks guys, I knew you could help :)
I'm not a dual wielder by nature so the dervish dance is worth looking into, granted I could look at TWF instead. Looks like ranged I'll be going crossbow :)
I have craft poisons but it was a late addition to it's not fully fleshed out. As it's my first char, I'm not expecting it to be optimized, but I want to be as helpful as possible and with just one front liner, I like having the melee option.
I boosted CMB a bit so I could help out with trips, but I'll see how much of a rewrite the DM is down for and maybe swap out to TWF and agile sicles, it could be fun :)
Thanks for the feedback, I'm sure he's rife with newbie mistakes but he's fun to play and essential to the party (which makes me feel special). I went with a high charisma as I'm our face, plus he's a charming rogue :D
It just was a big drop from 1d4+4+2d6 to 1d4-2+2d6 from round 1 to round 2 so I walked away feeling really broken, but maybe it's not so bad, and you're help will ensure he continues to shine :D
strength 8 gives you a -1 modifier not -2
Yeah rogue did that to my first character too dump str max dex hit a lot do little damage :( but don's worry about it to much you sneak damage will grow much much faster then str damage will as you learn the game you will find more and more opportunities to roll those extra d6's.
strength 8 gives you a -1 modifier not -2Thanks guys, I knew you could help :)
I'm not a dual wielder by nature so the dervish dance is worth looking into, granted I could look at TWF instead. Looks like ranged I'll be going crossbow :)
I have craft poisons but it was a late addition to it's not fully fleshed out. As it's my first char, I'm not expecting it to be optimized, but I want to be as helpful as possible and with just one front liner, I like having the melee option.
I boosted CMB a bit so I could help out with trips, but I'll see how much of a rewrite the DM is down for and maybe swap out to TWF and agile sicles, it could be fun :)
Thanks for the feedback, I'm sure he's rife with newbie mistakes but he's fun to play and essential to the party (which makes me feel special). I went with a high charisma as I'm our face, plus he's a charming rogue :D
It just was a big drop from 1d4+4+2d6 to 1d4-2+2d6 from round 1 to round 2 so I walked away feeling really broken, but maybe it's not so bad, and you're help will ensure he continues to shine :D
I was about to say the same thing.
If your DM uses or decides to start using encumbrance rules, you'll want to pick up muleback cords, a handy haversack, or just talk someone stronger into carrying everything of yours except combat gear. Your current light weight allowance is 19.5 pounds. Studded leather + light crossbow + 10 bolts + rapier + 1 dagger = 14 pounds. That doesn't leave a lot of room for food, water, thieves tools, a bedroll, or loot, let alone a rope. A bag of holding doesn't work, since even a type 1 weighs 15 pounds which bumps you into medium encumbrance with just your armor.
But, muleback cords or a haversack are cheap, and foisting gear off on teammates doesn't cost any coin at all. And, like people said, sneak attack works - stealth and flank, and rock the surprise round. Also, don't forget about aiding another to help your heavy hitter actually deal that big damage against that plate-armored, shielded lizardfolk or whatever.
I feel like this -2 strength mod effectively neuters my combat options, making me rely on sneak attacks for anything above neglible damage, especially if the -2 penalty impacts the sling staff and crossbow. So short of leveling up my Str, or investing thousands of gold in attribute boosting items, is there a weapon/ feat that could fill this gap? Thanks for any help, sorry if it's a long post, I have a habit of rambling and have been up a few too many hours.
As already pointed out, an 8 Strength is only a -1 modifier.
As a small rogue, your sneak attack will always be the best damage. You need to work on tactics to ensure you can use it often.
Crossbows don't suffer from a Strength penalty.
with a 15 wisdom, you should take the Ki pool trick and get vanishing trick. This will allow you to get sneak attack, pretty much at will as long as you still have ki.
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I feel like this -2 strength mod effectively neuters my combat options, making me rely on sneak attacks for anything above neglible damage, especially if the -2 penalty impacts the sling staff and crossbow. So short of leveling up my Str, or investing thousands of gold in attribute boosting items, is there a weapon/ feat that could fill this gap? Thanks for any help, sorry if it's a long post, I have a habit of rambling and have been up a few too many hours.
It doesn't hurt you nearly as much as you think. First of all as it's been pointed out an 8 Str only gives you a -1 on damage. Secondly, it does affect the sling staff but does NOT affect the crossbow in any way. Use the crossbow for ranged, and the sickle for sneak attacks when you get flanking, and you'll be reasonably useful in combat.
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As mentioned above: an 8 Str is not the end of the world for a rogue.
You may, however, want to look into a Masterwork Backpack & Muleback Cords when you can afford them (50gp & 1000gp, respectively). This assumes your GM tracks encumbrance. If not, don't worry about them.
I just loath being the Rogue and not being able to walk away with lots of treasure, simply because it's too darn heavy.
Low strength only really hurts early. After a few levels your dice are the bulk of your damage even if you went high strength. Add in iterative attacks when you get them, you won't really miss the damage.
By the time you are 11th level, you roll 6d6 per attack, and with TWF and 2nd attack that is 3 attacks or 18d6 sneak attack if all hit and qualify. You really could care less about the missing 3 damage.
If you wanted to do dex damage to your attacks you could have gone half elf for ancestral arms: scimitar, weapon finesse, combat trick: dervish dance. If you went 20 dex, this is 1d6+5 damage at 2nd level, plus 1d6 sneak when you get it. After awhile you will still find the sneak attack overshadowing the dex based damage, and you have to have a free hand to even do this style, missing out on TWF which can potentially trigger way more damage.
Since it's honest mistake ask the GM is you swap a stat. Either con or wis for Str. Either one has it's benefit and draw backs.
Thanks everyone, I know my strength mod -2, so I think I posted the wrong initial stat here (sheet isn't in front of me).
I found the lack of lootage being another issue but will be grabbing Muleback Cords and a handy haversack when I can. I usually make the barbarian carry the non-essential stuff (rope, miscellaneous camp gear, angry werewolves, quest related heavy stuff).
My sneak attacks have been my bread and butter so far and our party has good synergy so 90% of the time we have flanks in place, actually factoring my dex into my attack roll correctly is probably going to increase my hitting and thus damage potential pretty nicely :)
It'll be interesting to see where this goes, Thanks again!
Lol @ angry werewolves