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Heck, the patron isn't even necessarily a creature. It could be that tree over there that's actually your patron, and suddenly it decides what's going to happen!
Heck, the patron isn't even necessarily a creature. It could be that tree over there that's actually your patron, and suddenly it decides what's going to happen!
And it shunts your request into a maximized Awaken spell on itself and then proceeds to raise and army or treefolk! Sounds like a fun adventure hook.
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Miracle doesn't twist what you ask for. It is what it is, it either works or does not.
If you don't trust your DM to rule fairly on it, don't cast it.
Or just stick to using it for the things the spell specifically says it can do, like casting lower level cleric spells.
When handing the core rule book to another player I might sneeze and end up throwing it at my DM's face.
A butterfly flapping its wings in china could cause a hurricane in canada which could cause an earthquake in Sumatra which could cause a traffic jam in L.A. which could cause me (not in L.A.) to get the urge to leave the gaming group.
Anything can happen at any time!
I never really seemed attracted to miracle and wish because they are so nebolous in this way and really expensive. It sort of is a bribe for overwhelming force just doesn't seem fun for me.
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I never really seemed attracted to miracle and wish because they are so nebolous in this way and really expensive. It sort of is a bribe for overwhelming force just doesn't seem fun for me.
Note that Miracle does not have the material cost for some uses (like being used to imitate other spells). It's a very nice spell choice for high-level oracles for that reason.
I've always had a problem with spells that have more than a few direct uses. It seems weird to have a "Do Chores" spell that will do your laundry, OR do your dishes, OR take out the trash, OR ... You get the idea. It's one of the two reasons I dislike the Shadow spells.
It's hard enough to handle creative players when all they have is a bucket of grease and some fishing twine. When that bucket of grease can become any known liquid and the fishing twin can become any string-like object, you're really in trouble.
And *gasp* some clerics have no deity at all!
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You see a problem, I see an opportunity! Maybe that's how the witch finally finds out about her patron's true agenda.
The only situation in which this is likely to matter is if the patron decides that this is the precise moment to turn on somebody that it's stood behind for a good solid 18 levels. Why now, after all this time? What does it really want?
That's an awesome plot hook.
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Your god might decide it doesn't want you to cast that spell you prepared.
There might be a fluctuation in the magical field that causes your fireball spell to explode as soon as you cast it instead of where you direct it.
Same difference.
I've always thought about taking a small darkwood shield, casting invisiblity on it, and then mage handing it in front of a wizard before ambushing him in combat, so that when he casts fireball it hits the shield 3 feet in front of him and explodes. :)
I have a dwarven cleric of the dragon god in my DMs setting. He doesn't fall into lockstep with everything she says. I'm sorry you feel otherwise, but clerics are allowed to be within one step of their deities alignment. A LN cleric of the same god is going to act differently than a NG one.
I feel compelled, as his DM, to note that he hasn't actually risen to a high enough level to impinge on his goddess's radar at this time. Currently he's being handled by a 3rd level Avatar clerk. :)
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I've always thought about taking a small darkwood shield, casting invisiblity on it, and then mage handing it in front of a wizard before ambushing him in combat, so that when he casts fireball it hits the shield 3 feet in front of him and explodes. :)
Yeah, but that requires fighting a wizard that thinks fireball is a good choice for an opener.
They don't last long. :P
Yeah, but that requires fighting a wizard that thinks fireball is a good choice for an opener. :P They don't last long.
You have met Mike right?
I'd think Raff the more likely candidate.
Mike played a goblin wizard in the Friday night game. He cast Fireball, as his first spell, no less than 5 times. And four of those times, he hit his own party members to get it off (including himself).
LOL :)
And *gasp* some clerics have no deity at all!
Exactly.
No deity makes this spell complicated on whole other levels. The whole collision of rule vs fluff.
And *gasp* some clerics have no deity at all!Exactly.
No deity makes this spell complicated on whole other levels. The whole collision of rule vs fluff.
Depends on which campaign setting you use.
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Plus it all highly depends on what you're trying to do. I mean, Miracle and Wish spells are essentially what happens when you master magic to such a degree that you can do a whole massive number of things with just one spell. If you're substituting it for another spell, that's fine. But if you try and get fancy and start changing reality, than most GMs will probably have some sort of consequences, no matter who is casting what how.
Also, the patron gives the witch the knowledge to use the spells, and no further. They plant a seed of power in their heads, and that's pretty much it. According to our good ol' James Jacobs, he once asked a question as to what would happen if a patron died. His answer was...well, not the same thing as what would happen if a deity died. So technically, the miracle wouldn't be granted by the patron, since the patron doesn't directly grant the witch spells, but just tells her how to work them through her familiar.
Plus it all highly depends on what you're trying to do. I mean, Miracle and Wish spells are essentially what happens when you master magic to such a degree that you can do a whole massive number of things with just one spell. If you're substituting it for another spell, that's fine. But if you try and get fancy and start changing reality, than most GMs will probably have some sort of consequences, no matter who is casting what how.
Also, the patron gives the witch the knowledge to use the spells, and no further. They plant a seed of power in their heads, and that's pretty much it. According to our good ol' James Jacobs, he once asked a question as to what would happen if a patron died. His answer was...well, not the same thing as what would happen if a deity died. So technically, the miracle wouldn't be granted by the patron, since the patron doesn't directly grant the witch spells, but just tells her how to work them through her familiar.
So what you're saying is that it's the witch's familiar who grants her miracles?
(I know that's not what you're actually saying, but it's too funny not to use at some point.)