Master of Many Styles Archetype Question

[pobbes]

Raje wrote:

pobbes wrote:

The djinni feat only adds the wisdom to damage on an elemental fist attack. He would only have two per day if he even qualified for the feat (which he doesn't).

He doesn't need to qualify if he uses a MOMS bonus feat to take it though, as long as he's picked up the style feat in a similar fashion (another MOMS bonus feat or the Unarmed Fighter bonus style feat (I believe it ignores prereqs too). That he wouldn't be able to use the style until he picks up Elemental Fist is another matter.

Except, the MoMS does bonus feats explicitly state that they don't allow you to ignore the prerequisites for Elemental Fist. A synthesist 3/ MoMS 2 does not meet the prerequisites.... Wait.... maybe I am wrong. Alright, now I am confused.

I can't seem to figure out if the wording for the bonus feats states you need to meet the pre-requisites of elemental fist or that elemental fist is the only pre-requisite you need to meet to qualify for applicable style feats. The wording is still pretty confusing.

Raje might be right. He may have elemental fist. It still only applies to a single attack on each use.

[Raje]

I was refering to the relevant Style Feats (Djinni Style and Djinni whateveritscalled) - MOMS can take both with bonus feats without having Elemental Fist, but can't get Elemental Fist until later when he actually qualifies - and he would need that feat to actually use Djinni Style.

Concerning the wordning, let's cut it up some to make interpreting easier:

"a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat" - You can pick either a Style Feat or the Elemental Fist feat

"He does not have to meet the prerequisites of that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat." - Only Elemental Fist needs its requirements met to be taken

"a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style)." - You can pick any feat in a Style Feat chain as long as you have the base Style Feat

"The master of many styles does not need to meet any other prerequisite of the feat in the style’s feat path." - No other prereqs than base Style Feat is needed for picking any feat in the chain

Makes more sense now? Then last two kinda says the same thing, really.

[thoynan]

Is there any official errata on that? The main culprit line is, except Elemental fist. Do they mean elemental fist as a pre req, OR, do they mean elemental fist as a whole, i.e only it need it's pre reqs meet to be taken (which is 10 as monk, and 9 as any full bab MC with 1 lvl of MOMF).

On the plus side, the "Special" line on Elemental fist does let any monk, not just a monk of the 4 winds, use his lvl as uses per day.

I wonder if scorpion style is a style feat, and if it'll get erratta'd.

THe elemental styles get good at tier 2, where you get persistent resistance and some side benifit, but all in all, really marginal for such high level feats.

[Grenouillebleue]

From Core:

Quote:

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

So :

Without any natural claw or whatever on his limbs, this synthesist has ONE lousy attack per round (either bare-handed or with a weapon).

IF (and that would cost a lot of evolution points) a synthesist were to have four tentacles, or claws (or any other kind of natural attack), he could make one attack at -4 BAB and four attacks at -5 BAB (for 1/2 str).

Even if you were to allow a bestiary feat, you would still eat -2 BAB to every attack and have 1/2 str to damage.

Don't mix natural attacks and weapon attacks on a synthesist. EVER. That's the worst thing you could do.

Your player would be much better off as a Synthesist 5, only counting on his natural attacks to deal damage. Then he would get no penalty to BAB and full STR to damage.

[Grick]

Grenouillebleue wrote:

From Core:

Quote:

In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting.

That section was removed via errata.

You do not take TWF penalties unless you are using the Two-Weapon Fighting style to get an extra attack.

[Raje]

thoynan wrote:

Is there any official errata on that? The main culprit line is, except Elemental fist. Do they mean elemental fist as a pre req, OR, do they mean elemental fist as a whole, i.e only it need it's pre reqs meet to be taken (which is 10 as monk, and 9 as any full bab MC with 1 lvl of MOMF).

I'd say it's just a bad case of sentence construction. It should probably be "except for the Elemental Fist feat.", implying it's the only feat you need to meet requirements for to be able to take - which also lines up with the fact that you actually need to meet all the requirements for the feat to pick it up, unless you're a Four Winds monk or have the Dragon Feriocity feat (which says you can take Elemental Fist without meeting the standard requirements). It's kinda logical if you add it all up.

thoynan wrote:

I wonder if scorpion style is a style feat, and if it'll get erratta'd.

No, because it doesn't line up with the real Style Feats - you don't "activate" (a Master of Many Styles can't have it "on" with other Styles), it's just an attack option with "Style" in its name.