|
Hey folks,
Looking to gm my first group this summer. I'm confident I can look up rules and decipher them to the extent I'll be required to.
My question are:
How do folks determine what point buy to use(10/15/20/25) when setting up a campaign?
What complications does a higher point buy bring to a GM if any?
Cheers!
|
Higher point buy makes the characters a little tougher at low levels. If they burn a bunch of points into their main stat then they can be quite deadly.
If you are unsure I suggest starting with a 15 point buy. If you find that the PCs are not tough enough then you can bump it up after the fact. No one is going to complain about higher stats.
I believe the APs are written for 4 players with a 15 point point-buy as a standard; so a 15 points is generally considered a basis line as far as PC power level is concerned in a standard campaign. If you want your PCs to be a bit more exceptional than you'll want to use a higher point allotment. It is mostly a preference thing.
I find that higher point buys affect very little. MAD classes generally have an easier time thriving with high point allotments, however, and can sometimes struggle with 15 or less if the players building them lack in system mastery. Higher point buys will lead to characters that are a bit more versitile and those that will generally be able to cover their class weaknesses a little better.
Hey folks,
Looking to gm my first group this summer. I'm confident I can look up rules and decipher them to the extent I'll be required to.My question are:
How do folks determine what point buy to use(10/15/20/25) when setting up a campaign?
What complications does a higher point buy bring to a GM if any?
Cheers!
I think the published adventures are tuned to a 4- or 5-member party at a 15-point buy. If you're running an adventure path, I would stick to that kind of guideline. As far as tuning goes, if you only have 3 players, maybe a 20- or 25-point buy is better for your group. If you have more players, keep the point buy down at 15. I wouldn't go as low as 10, that makes for a fairly bleak campaign, and players may feel that their character aren't really good at anything. If you have too many players, I'd buff up the encounters with extra monsters first, before reducing the players' power level.
If you're making up your own encounters, then it really comes down to trial and error, and ends up leaning more toward an art than a science. See what works, see if people are having fun, and if not, what will make it more fun.
But it really comes down to what your group wants. Maybe the players WANT to feel overpowered. Sometimes that's fun. If that's what they want, it might become hard to challenge them. But if everyone's having fun, then hack away.
I think it's less of an exact science than people are suggesting. What does "tuned to a 15 point buy" even mean, as opposed to "tuned to a 20 point buy"? Does that mean that the 20 point buy fighter is supposed to have an extra +1 to attacks and damage, or an extra 3 hit points, or an extra +1 AC? Or all of the above? Or none of the above?
So pick 15 points or 20 points or 25 points or whatever. If you really wanted to, you could cap abilities at 18 or have minimum abilities of 8 (adjusted), if you want your players to spread their points around a bit.
What does "tuned to a 15 point buy" even mean,
It means they are designed with that party size and power level in mind. I apologize if the meaning of that phrase is not obvious. I believe I read that in several other threads on the boards. Do you think that is incorrect?
|
a few things to remember when assigning a group a point buy system to use.
1: how long have these members been playing.
2: are these power gamers or min maxers
3: what other allowances are you making i.e. higher starting wealth easier access to powerful magic items and the restrictions on magic item creation.
4: does your campaign allow retreat and rest at regular intervals.
5: have your players played together before.
6: how many players are there and will there be any npcs constantly assisting them.
when you take these into account you can derive a better idea of what points to hand out. for instance if you are dming for the first time and all your players are experienced players that have backgrounds in power gaming and your group already has there little combos they use do you really want to give them the extra points?? by limiting the point buy you are in fact limiting the beginning strength of the characters. a 25 point buy means a higher % to hit than normal, more dmg per hit and per round and in the case of casters more spells with higher saves. put all those together and your equal cr encounter might just get pounded into submission. your best bet is to start out low powered and if at some point you feel "hey these guys need more power" have them all get raptured and the gods allow them a chance to redistribute base points at a higher point buy. yeah it'll mean a little more work with fixing character sheets down the road but guess what your players wont complain.
now if you are a new dm and these are new players the higher stats might be a great crutch to get them going. after all a caster probably wont have a 14 con on a 15 point buy system. or you might end up with 0 players capable of a diplomacy check for lack of skill points and charisma being a common dump stat.
sorry if i prattle on what im saying is if you want to play it safe (which id recommend) do a 15 point buy for experienced players and a low starting level. if they are new players give them the 20 point buy.
but beyond point buy also watch carefully the character creation it is better to find mistakes early on rather than mid game. if you have new players go over there sheets maybe even dedicate a whole session to building characters and picking out gear. if they are experienced players make sure they are not trying to sneak in some pre errata version of a feat or ability. i know its a pain but dms got alot of reading to do and keeping your eye on your players will ensure happiness in the long run.
What does "tuned to a 15 point buy" even mean,It means they are designed with that party size and power level in mind. I apologize if the meaning of that phrase is not obvious. I believe I read that in several other threads on the boards. Do you think that is incorrect?
Whether a module writer does any playtesting is up to that particular writer. I'm sure that some people do their playtesting with 15 point buy characters (Neil Spicer indicated he does, for instance).
However:
|
It really all depends on your style of gaming that your group follows.
If you all are used to PFS play, I would stick to those rules.
If you are a GM that wants to see players more well rounded rather than a collection of 20s and 7s, you can either cap the max stat amount at 1st level (say at 18 like Hogarth suggested), use an elite array(15,14,13,12,10,8), or make them use a 15 pt buy and award a few points during game play to bring them up to approximately 20 pts.
I saw nothing about the size of your group. If you have more than 5 players, try not to go above 15pt buy if you are a new GM or you may have trouble balancing your encounters to be challenging.
I would suggest playing a couple standalone modules, homebrew mini adventures, etc, to get a feel for what works best with your group. Players stuck with 15 pt buys that make them unhappy aren't enjoying the game, and a GM stuck with 25pt buy characters that he can't challenge won't be happy either.
|
|
What does "tuned to a 15 point buy" even mean,It means they are designed with that party size and power level in mind. I apologize if the meaning of that phrase is not obvious. I believe I read that in several other threads on the boards. Do you think that is incorrect?
This is basically what I was asking I suppose. As I am running an adventure path, I was curious what meshes well with APs. The end goal is to minimize my work (in light of low GM experience) by maximizing character/AP design matching without nerfing them to munchkin status. I see now that it seems that APs weren't that thoroughly planned (pt buy testing). My thinking is that by ensuring I can work well with CRs and the AP, I can vest more time into a good story and play experience.
I'd like to discourage the stat dumping in favor of rounded characters, only one of my players really has the knowledge to min/max.
I'm leaning heavily towards 15, with an 18 cap. What would be a reasonable min cap?
I should be able to discern after a couple of sessions if stats are needing to be bumped up. In the course of an AP, I imagine bumping stats up if I had to after a few sessions in would be meaningless in the long haul in terms of interrupting game dynamics.
Thank you all for your great suggestions :)
I'd like to discourage the stat dumping in favor of rounded characters, only one of my players really has the knowledge to min/max.
I'm leaning heavily towards 15, with an 18 cap. What would be a reasonable min cap?
The table on p16 of the Core Rules book has costs listed down to 7, which nets the player 4 more points to spend. The description of the table on the previous page says you can't go lower than that. If you allow someone to dump a stat down to 7, someone will do it. (Side corollary: If someone dumps a stat down to 7, it will be Charisma). If they play a race with a negative modifier to the stat they dump, they could end up starting the game with a 5 in a stat. Really, the only way to "discourage" that is to outright forbid it. But it's allowed by the rules.
I should be able to discern after a couple of sessions if stats are needing to be bumped up. In the course of an AP, I imagine bumping stats up if I had to after a few sessions in would be meaningless in the long haul in terms of interrupting game dynamics.
I played in one game where we started with a low point buy, but then got a stat point added to a random stat (determined by a d6) at every level. Except every 4th level, which we got to decide where to allocate. That was kinda fun. I think we got to 8th level in that game.
