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Prerequisites: Aura class feature, ability to cast summon monster.
Benefit: When using summon monster to summon creatures whose alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura, you may cast the spell as a standard action instead of with a casting time of 1 round.
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I assume when you summon any creature with as "asterisk" next to its name that its Celestial and thus matches your alignment, NOT your diety's?
E.g.: Your Diety is LG, but you are LN.
That is how I read it also. I think it is a good feat if you plan to focus on summoning.
Celestial/fiendish creatures *do* not get alignement subtype. Subtypes of summoned monsters are noted in separate column in summon monster lists.
Aura feature grants you alignement aura of your deity, not yours.
Aura (Ex): A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see the detect evil spell for details).
"Creatures marks with an "*" always have an alignment that matches yours, regardless of their usual alignment. Summoning these creatures makes the summoning spell's type match your alignment"
So if I'm LN and my diety is LG I can summon the Celestial template creatures with an "*" next to their name and they will be LN, my alignment.
So if I take Sacred Summons can I summon any creature with a "*" since its my same alignement?
Sacred Summons says "alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura".
So when the summon creature matches my alignement its a LN subtype, right?
Yep. Kinda stinks as written and probably as intended.
I don't see why the celestial or fiendish templates matter at all in this case.
Your aura matches your deity's alignment. Creatures that you summon with an * match your alignment. Sacred Summons works if the creature you summon has an alignment that matches your aura.
Just make sure your alignment is exactly the same as your deity's and sacred summon works fine...
So wait, I don't understand. Does that mean when I cast a Summoner Monster spell that the spell doesn't match my alignment and thus will not work with the Sarcred Summons feat?
I'm LN with a LG diety...so when I summon an Small Air Elemental its not LN and won't work with Sareced Summons?
So wait, I don't understand. Does that mean when I cast a Summoner Monster spell that the spell doesn't match my alignment and thus will not work with the Sarcred Summons feat?
I'm LN with a LG diety...so when I summon an Small Air Elemental its not LN and won't work with Sareced Summons?
Correct. Your aura matches your deity's alignment... not yours.
Hmm...so since I follow a LG diety I can, with Sacred Summons only summon creatures that have both Lawful and Good subtypes like the Lantern Archon with either the Celestial or Fiendish template (because I'm LN). What about creatures with just the Good subtype?
Not until I can cast Summon Monster 9 will I be able to summon another creature using a Standard Action. Do I have that right?
Seems awfully restrictive. I wonder if anyone has house-ruled it to be any creature with an "asterisk"? Is that unbalancing?
Hmm...so since I follow a LG diety I can, with Sacred Summons only summon creatures that have both Lawful and Good subtypes like the Lantern Archon with either the Celestial or Fiendish template (because I'm LN).
Mostly right, but not quite 100%.
Some creatures, like the Lantern Archon and the Lemure Devil, have alignment subtypes listed on the chart. THESE are the monsters that work with Sacred Summons. They DO NOT get the Celestial or Fiendish templates added, because they do not have the asterisk (*) notation.
Notice that Elementals work the same way.. they have no asterisk, so you never summon a Celestial Air Elemental.. just an Air Elemental.
It is actually designed NOT to affect any creature with an asterisk, and to ONLY affect those that are "proper" or "true" servants of your deity.
Chris is correct. The feat is basically a reward for choosing a good or evil deity. The Lantern Archon will not have a template applied to it. the Celestial and Feindish template is only applied to animals.
Since you follow LG deity you can summon anything with a lawful or good alignment as a standard action.
Aura (Ex): A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see the detect evil spell for details).
As a lawful good cleric you can summon a creature with the lawful or good subtype, as long as the creature does not have the chaotic or evil subtype also.
That gives you:3 lantern archon
4 hound archon
9 trumpet archon.
This feat is a lot more useful if you are LE.
I think houseruling it to summon creatures with an asterisk also makes it more reasonable.
A DM might also be open to expanding the list of summonable celestial outsiders considering there are so many others that have been released in later Bestiaries.
Chris is correct. The feat is basically a reward for choosing a good or evil deity. The Lantern Archon will not have a template applied to it. the Celestial and Feindish template is only applied to animals.
Since you follow LG deity you can summon anything with a lawful or good alignment as a standard action.
Aura (Ex): A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see the detect evil spell for details).As a lawful good cleric you can summon a creature with the lawful or good subtype, as long as the creature does not have the chaotic or evil subtype also.
That gives you:
3 lantern archon
4 hound archon
9 trumpet archon.This feat is a lot more useful if you are LE.
I think houseruling it to summon creatures with an asterisk also makes it more reasonable.
So even if he is LN is aura would be LG just because is god is LG?
My cleric is a neutral Cleric of Pharasma, and Pharasma is a neutral god. This would mean that this feat is useless for my cleric, right?
I like that the Devs finally gave evil and good clerics some love. I always thought they should nerf the neutral Clerics, but it seems that this feat is better if you are evil. They should probably errata it.
This feat is great if you are LE or CE. At higher levels CE is the best alignment. I really hate that the 7th and 8th level summon monster doesn't have any good creature. In fact I don't understand why they have created a feat at obviously is designed for evil clerics. Is sure does spotlight the lack of good creatures on the SM list.
If your god (or you) are LG then you are really in serious trouble if you want to summon stuff.
5th level spells: No creature with LG subtype. (E vs. G on the list): 1 CG, 1 CE, 1 Evil and 3 LE (E5 - G1)
6th level spells: No creature with LG subtype. (E vs. G on the list): 1 CG, 2 CE and 1 LE (E3 - G1)
7th level spells: No creature with Good subtype. (E vs. G on the list): 2 CE and 1LE (E3 - G0)
8th level spells: No creature with Good subtype. (E vs. G on the list): 1 CE and 1LE (E2- G0)
I'm happy I'm playing a neutral Cleric of Pharasma, but it's sad that good clerics are so poor choices in Pathfinder.
True 3rd and 4th level spells have one creature each with LG subtype on the list, but the fun really begins at higher levels. You might as well summon Dire wolfs, Elementals, Grizzly bears or whatever at lower levels. Especially if you have the augmented summoning feat.
It is better if you are evil, and your deity determines what benefits from this feat.
If your deity is LG you also can't summon creatures with the chaotic subtype using this feat because law and chaos are opposed alignments.
I will houserule this for my home games, but it should be more open than what it is.
It is better if you are evil, and your deity determines what benefits from this feat.
If your deity is LG you also can't summon creatures with the chaotic subtype using this feat because law and chaos are opposed alignments.
+1
Yes. This feat suck if you are good and it sucks real badly if you are LG.Funny, it actually suck if your deity N too.
I will houserule this for my home games, but it should be more open than what it is.
I hope they errata this and make it work as your houserule.
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Hmm...so since I follow a LG diety I can, with Sacred Summons only summon creatures that have both Lawful and Good subtypes like the Lantern Archon with either the Celestial or Fiendish template (because I'm LN). What about creatures with just the Good subtype?
Not until I can cast Summon Monster 9 will I be able to summon another creature using a Standard Action. Do I have that right?
Seems awfully restrictive. I wonder if anyone has house-ruled it to be any creature with an "asterisk"? Is that unbalancing?
How would this impact a character with an Aura of Good, without anything on the Law / Chaos axis?
This is for PFS play, so houseruling is not an option.
@Thalin and Chris Kenney.
a Lantern archon has 13 HP. with augmented summoning it has 17 Hp.
At level 12 that is one hit at it is dead. And the damage it can deal at level 12 is far from useful compared to a devil or demon from the 6th level summon spell.
@Chris Kenney: What do you mean a "Lantern Archons can generate a 'death of a thousand cuts' by mass summonings"?
A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature.
Or did I miss read you?
By keep on summoning it. Mostly relevant for summoners, although using a higher level slot can help quite a bit.
Sure, the archons have 12 hit points. But that may as well be infinite if the creature can't attack at range. Just fly up a bit, and shoot.
Prerequisites: Aura class feature, ability to cast summon monster.
Benefit: When using summon monster to summon creatures whose alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura, you may cast the spell as a standard action instead of with a casting time of 1 round.
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I assume when you summon any creature with as "asterisk" next to its name that its Celestial and thus matches your alignment, NOT your diety's?
E.g.: Your Diety is LG, but you are LN.
I have a Holy Tactician/Master Summoner who plays like a Bow Paladin with a pack of Lantern Archons... he uses the hell out of Sacred Summons.
So to speak.
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I still think you guys are way overcomplicating this feat.
From the Summon Monster spell description: "Creatures marked with an "*" always have an alignment that matches yours, regardless of their usual alignment. Summoning these creatures makes the summoning spell's type match your alignment."
As long as your alignment is the same as your Deity's, Sacred Summons works on all creatures on the Summon Monster list marked with an "*".
And the feat explicitly says
When using summon monster to summon creatures whose exactly match your aura, you may cast the spell as a standard action instead of with a casting time of 1 round.
It says nothing about spell type or alignment. It is purely about alignment subtype(s).
It's not an issue of overcomplicating the feat. When one reads the feat, it is crystal clear that the text about "creatures marked with *" does not apply.
I have a feeling they said alignment subtypes, which are listed in the Summon Monster list by the way, rather than "spell type" for this very reason. It's OK as written. It's extremely OP as people tend to incorrectly read it.
Each one you've got going is all but a guaranteed 2d6 damage every round, so opponents can't afford to ignore the threat.
What are you fighting at the levels you're talking about that a +3 ranged touch attack without Precise Shot is all but guaranteed to hit? Sure, touch AC is low, but unless you're fighting huge or larger creatures, most enemies will have a touch AC that's at least a 12. That's already only a 60% chance to hit with each ray. Something in melee brings it to 40%. Add soft cover, and it's almost a guarantee the Lantern Archons will miss like crazy.
By keep on summoning it. Mostly relevant for summoners, although using a higher level slot can help quite a bit.
Sure, the archons have 12 hit points. But that may as well be infinite if the creature can't attack at range. Just fly up a bit, and shoot.
For crying out loud. It's a CR 19 creature with +200 HP we are talking about.
You can't ignore that: "It can only be permanently destroyed if reduced to negative hit points and then decapitated using an adamantine vorpal weapon—alternatively, miracle or wish can be used to slay it while it is at negative hit points."
The problem with this golem is not to take it down to negative hit points, it's destroying it. If the only plan you have is using SMIII, then you are in big problem. Heightened Glitterdust + Transmute metal to wood + Hasted fighter (or hasted Arcane Duelist) with greater penetrating strike + miracle/wish and bye, bye Golem.
There are other ways to deal with it. Using a highly theoretical and situational example to prove a point is rather pointless. Any spell or anything can be useful at some time or another. That don't make this feat great if you or your diety is LG. Heck, there are probably times a 10 ft pole can be useful even if you are level 12. That don't mean a 12 level fighter normally would trade in his +3 Holy Adamantite Great Sword for a 10 ft pole.
If you have the time to summon 9 lantern archons then you probably don't need the feat. CR 19? At that level you can either cast the spells in advance using some rods of extended spell or if you just accidentally walk into trouble you can just use your rod/rods of quicken spell.
BTW, I never denied you can use lantern archons even at higher levels. I only pointed out the monsters on the list is rather limited at higher levels if you are good and really suck if you are LG.
Regardless if you use a 8th level spell slot or a 5th level spell slot to summon a 3rd level monster you only get a 1d4+1 SMIII. The 5Th - 8th spell levels suck for this feat if you are LG and 7th + 8th spell levels suck if you are of any good alignment.
Well, 5th is "optimal" for the feat (d4+1 lanterns as standard); after that I tend to agree. Really lantern archons are the power of the feat; it is highly specialized but very powerful.
The Lanterns become available with MS III which means you get 1 of them... at 7th level you get 1d3 of them and at 9th level you get 1d4+1 of them. Superior Summoning grants an additional +1 on top of that.
I'm playing a ranged Paladin/Master Summoner right now - I'm struggling between going Holy Tactician to give all the summoned Lanterns the Target of Opportunity teamwork feat or going Divine Hunter for its various benefits... a lot of people overlook some of the other uses of the Lanterns - the Aura of Menace, the Greater Teleport ability, the ability to cast Aid at will (on each other and/or party members) and so on. Even Truespeech allows them to serve as translators.
As a Master Summoner I'm getting about 10 Summons as a class feature and Sacred Summons allows me to tack on additional Summons as spells if needed without losing effectiveness.
For what it's worth, all summons lose teleport abilities when summoned. For master summoner, the aid at will is a sick ability; often I summon archons and have them going around casting aid and refreshing temp hp pool / keeping bless up, then shooting when they have spare time.
I was under the impression that they lost all abilities to summon/teleport or gate in other creatures - I had never seen the limitation on teleporting themselves and its news to my GM as well. I've used them as scouts down different directions who them teleport back when they find the way out or to teleport loot from deep in a cavern to the surface.
Can you shoot me a link or something to that restriction and any other similar ones so that we'll know in the future?
Prerequisites: Aura class feature, ability to cast summon monster.
Benefit: When using summon monster to summon creatures whose alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura, you may cast the spell as a standard action instead of with a casting time of 1 round.
--
I assume when you summon any creature with as "asterisk" next to its name that its Celestial and thus matches your alignment, NOT your diety's?
E.g.: Your Diety is LG, but you are LN.
It's a great feat. I play an evangelist cleric, NG, with it. Few creatures (3 types of Azataas) to summon, but it's definitely worth it. They strike, they heal, they fly, they speak... Standard action summoning is a huge boost :-)
It's a great feat. I play an evangelist cleric, NG, with it. Few creatures (3 types of Azataas) to summon, but it's definitely worth it. They strike, they heal, they fly, they speak... Standard action summoning is a huge boost :-)Prerequisites: Aura class feature, ability to cast summon monster.
Benefit: When using summon monster to summon creatures whose alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura, you may cast the spell as a standard action instead of with a casting time of 1 round.
--
I assume when you summon any creature with as "asterisk" next to its name that its Celestial and thus matches your alignment, NOT your diety's?
E.g.: Your Diety is LG, but you are LN.
I'm not sure what you mean, but you should possibly reread the posts in this thread.
I'm not sure what you mean, but you should possibly reread the posts in this thread.It's a great feat. I play an evangelist cleric, NG, with it. Few creatures (3 types of Azataas) to summon, but it's definitely worth it. They strike, they heal, they fly, they speak... Standard action summoning is a huge boost :-)Prerequisites: Aura class feature, ability to cast summon monster.
Benefit: When using summon monster to summon creatures whose alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura, you may cast the spell as a standard action instead of with a casting time of 1 round.
--
I assume when you summon any creature with as "asterisk" next to its name that its Celestial and thus matches your alignment, NOT your diety's?
E.g.: Your Diety is LG, but you are LN.
Why? I answered the question in the thread's title... :-)
I still think you guys are way overcomplicating this feat.
From the Summon Monster spell description: "Creatures marked with an "*" always have an alignment that matches yours, regardless of their usual alignment. Summoning these creatures makes the summoning spell's type match your alignment."
As long as your alignment is the same as your Deity's, Sacred Summons works on all creatures on the Summon Monster list marked with an "*".
No, Cheapy got it right. The creature's subtypemust match, limiting it to very few creatures. It's still worth it, though :-)
Why? I answered the question in the thread's title... :-)
Matches your diety's alignment, not yours.
So you can't summon any evil or Lawful creatures. :0)
Why? I answered the question in the thread's title... :-)Matches your diety's alignment, not yours.
So you can't summon any evil or Lawful creatures. :0)
Exactly. Maybe you should look up Azataas first? ;-)
Second paragraph in the description.
Thanks for that, I don't know how I missed it before.
I can absolutely understand why they might want to prevent a summoned creature from summoning more creatures, but why take away one of its modes of transportation? Any ideas?
So it couldn't teleport the party.
Because even low level outsiders often have greater teleport at will. Limited to self and 50 lbs gear but still it means superb messenger, spy or gear transport.
Because even low level outsiders often have greater teleport at will. Limited to self and 50 lbs gear but still it means superb messenger, spy or gear transport.
Is having a messenger, spy or gear transport - all effects that could be duplicated with 1st level spells - really that overpowered? Especially considering that you generally have access to these guys for only a few rounds at low levels and they have to have seen where they are teleporting to? Not much of a window there...