One serious punch to the bridge of the nose, breaking it, will blacken your eyes and could put you on the ground, cracking your head on the sidewalk. But then again, I wasn't there.I know that the eye witnesses said that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman. Not that he gave Zimmerman one quick tap and then got off of him. I'm not sure how a person could end up with two black eyes, a fractured nose, a back injury, and lacerations on the back of his head from a guy who just tapped and stopped.
I have, no joke, had worse injuries from slipping on ice in my backyardDid that ice keep beating you without you having any idea when it was going to stop?
You don't know that Trayvon DIDN'T stop before he was shot. You don't know that Trayvon started the fight. Stop acting like you do.
But yes, in effect, it did. I broke an ankle really bad, and after screaming for like 10 minutes for help tried to stand up and hobble home. I don't know if you've ever tried to hop a half a block home on slick ice, but it's HRRRD! I think I would up with a sprained wrist and a concussion, as well as severe bruising on my backside.
It doesn't really even take a serious punch to break a nose. That can happen accidentally with a lucky, but glancing blow that makes contact whilst flailing about during a struggle. People pointing to Zimmerman's broken nose and then claiming that Trayvon Martin must have fought like Mike Tyson need to check themselves.
All in all, I believe this was a tragic outcome to a misunderstanding that was escalated by both parties. One of those parties just happened to be carrying a gun and so he committed manslaughter (NOT murder, in any legal sense of the word.)
I don't want to come off as too snide, but I'd really rather he didn't. There's only so much my poor stomach can take.XxAnthraxusxX
Please explain to me what exactly you think happened and how it puts Zimmerman in the right.
I warned you guys!!
The majority of news agencies got his race wrong. But, hey, "white on black crime" sells copy. Who cares that it led to all kinds of additional violence
You know what else sells newspapers?: a 17-yo shot dead, the police department bungling it at almost every step, in a town with a history of the police bungling it when the victim is black, and thousands of people protesting up and down the east coast.
As for the picture about Trayvon: I don't know, but something to look into.
They do when the family is able to organize thousands-strong protests--but I can't be certain of the timeline. I thought the black university in Florida (don't remember the name) protest and the demonstration in NYC happened pretty early.
EDIT: I was wrong: those didn't happen til a week after the national media picked up the case--a month after the incident.
Just to be clear, you claimed that the media didn't refer to Zimmerman as white. I gave you a link to an example. Now, you claim, again, that the media hasn't referred to Zimmerman as white.
I made no such claim and you know it. Knock it the f@@# off.
What I claimed is that, since I heard about the story, I never heard anyone call him white. I heard people correct the previous assertion that he was white, so I'm AWARE of the snafu, but I was never under the impression that he was white. It never colored my opinion of the incident, and I'm tired of the continual insinuation that those of us who want a killer to see justice are racist.As for the linked article, I'm not sure how it supports your case. It's just another hippie liberal with his "racist" philosophy that we are all one race: human. *eyeroll*
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I live in the ghetto,i can tell a lot of people here do not, and have not. I know how these little hoods act, and have seen it first hand. Your sympathy is misguided, misplaced and rather puzzling.
I have. And any number of kids dressed and acted like "little hoods" to fit in, but weren't bad kids overall if you actually, you know, interacted with them as people.
But that's beside the point -- because a gated community is in no way a ghetto, so your assertion that it's crawling with "little hoods" who need to be gunned down before they assault or murder someone seems a bit paranoid.
It's been a while:
Don't you see that makes it worse! Since it's a gated community, any "little hood" there must be there to rob or murder. Stopping them before they do that only makes sense.
... and since most of the "little hoods" are black, we should therefore kill all black people entering the said community!
That's not racist -- it's flat-out Loony Tunes.
A Senseless Shooting in a Soulless Place
Not that it means much re: the current conversation, but I thought this article about The Retreat was interesting.
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Whatever Zimmerman did, seeking justice means waiting until we have all the evidence before making a decision. Making a decision before all the evidence is available, in this case, is racist.
I think you may be unclear about what the word 'racist' means- because that isn't it.
Yes, Citizen Duck. Everybody here is a racist. Except you. Once again, you and you alone have stood aloft from the braying hordes of sheeple.
Once again, you may sit proud and secure in your total awesomeness, smug as a bug in a rug.
Jolly good show!
Wouldn't braying be donkeys?
*hands comrade anklebiter a see and say*
The Sheep says Baaaaaaa
Sorry. Baaaa! Two feet baaaad!
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Ladies, gentlemen, and goblins, this is a very hot button topic, and we've all had a bit of a shakeup with some of the posts lately. Let's take a collective deep breath and calm down a bit before clicking on "submit post". We aren't going to change anyone's minds by insults, aggrandizement, sarcasm, putting words in each other's mouths, being contrary or just plain irritable.
Well after wading through this thread I figure I can throw my thoughts in.
1. This all could have been avoided. Regardless of how the fight broke out if the fight never happened noone would be dead.
2. I don't know if GZ is guilty of legal murder of any degree, I'm not a laywer and am glad I'm not on this jury.
3. I do feel that morally he is guilty of murder, whether or not he is found guiltly legally I think he will spend the rest of his life going over what happened that night wondering why it had to happen. Or at least I hope he has the concious to.
4. I don't know if Zimmerman was Racially profiling but he was profiling. He may have acted to same way to a white kid dressed and acting the same way, he may not have. But he did act on unfounded assumptions.
No, I mean it.
Go back to the beginning of the thread: Citizen Duck wanted to discuss how the media portrayal of the events was inciting race hate. He mostly maintains (I haven't rechecked every post) that he doesn't know what happened. Others have come in and said pretty classically racist stuff, but not Citizen Duck.
He maintains that this never would have been big news if it hadn't been for the race angle. The newspapers originally reported that Zimmerman was white. Crazy black nationalists did some pretty stupid things. Therefore, any discussion of, say, the Sanford PD's history of handling dead or beaten black people--that's playing the race card, that's racist. Also, it made some teens in Chicago mug a white kid and why isn't the press reporting that? Racism!
Citizen Duck alone (and that's hyperbole, sure, Citizens Kryzbyn and Pres Man too, perhaps others) stood above it.
Like I said: jolly good show!
Regarding the eyewitness testimonies in the case...
Forget the eyewitness testimonies, I've yet to see an argument that works with Zimmermans car over thataway and treyvons body over that way. People need to argue that either there's a massive conspiracy to put Treyvon's body somewhere it wasn't, or that because of quantum indeterminacy you can't know the exact position of Zimmerman's car so it could just has easily have been by the mailboxes as on the lawn.
The cops didn't bungle this, the prosecution did. The Cops had the evidence, they got the eyewitness testimony. They wanted to charge Zimmerman , the prosecution declined. Eyewitness testimony is... what it is. The cops can't change human nature.
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Zimmermans car over thatawayOver what away? The maps you linked to couldn't agree on where his car was
and treyvons body over that way.
I know where some people have claimed Trayvon's body was, but I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that that was, in fact, where his body was.
So far, you just keep reminding me of Bush the lesser's cronies connecting Iraq and 911 - if you say it often enough, maybe you can confuse people into thinking its a proven fact.
Here is his father walking the path. Unless you think his father is lying, it matches up to all the maps provided.
He is parked in front of the cut through. You can here him open his truck door, get out and start running. He is on foot and obviously pursuing Trayvon.
I have no idea why you want to condemn Martin and exonerate Zimmerman, but it seems obvious that Martin was trying to get away from Zimmerman, who was sitting in his SUV staring at him and following him, and Zimmerman chased him.
In the dark. In the south.
Kid doesn't know if he's getting mugged or what is going on.
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“Given the history of Sanford police… and early claims that George is white,” Oliver noted, “if I didn’t know George, or the history of the Sanford police department… I would be screaming for an arrest like everyone else.”What does being "white" have to do with screaming for an arrest?
He shot someone and they died. Where I live driving without a license is something you can arrested for, so you know, maybe shooting and killing someone you've been chasing...
And its two different issues anyway. Zimmerman doesn't become guilty of murder based on whether or not the Sanford PD has a history of racism.
Of course he doesn't. But for people to point it out as one of the reasons that they might be suspicious of Zimmerman's story and the SPD's conduct--well, that's buying into white on black violence--that's being incited to race hate by the left-wing media. Who wouldn't even publish a photo of a black teenager provided by Stormfront who might not even be Martin. The racists.
know where some people have claimed Trayvon's body was, but I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that that was, in fact, where his body was.
Right, crime scene photos including one that shows the location of the bullet 3 different news agencies all agreeing on the location aren't evidence. No one is disagreeing over where the body was. Zimmerman himself gave the approximate location of his vehicle on the 9 11 tape. It really doesn't matter if the car was 90 or 100 yards from the body, the same thing happened: Zimmerman chased after him. You can hear him doing that on the 9 11 call. Zimmerman SAYS he's following him on the 911 call.
You're not waiting for evidence. You're waiting for proof. Except when you disagree with something proof doesn't exist. You still consider heliocentrism a cultural narrative rather than a fact.
So the fact that Martin was unarmed is irrelevant and anything implicating Zimmerman is some sort of misunderstanding?
He is parked in front of the cut through. You can here him open his truck door, get out and start running. He is on foot and obviously pursuing Trayvon.I hear Zimmerman's breathing become regular again shortly after he agrees with the dispatcher not to chase after Martin.
The amount of time in which Zimmerman's breathing is irregular (ie. he's running) on the 911 tape is far too short for him to run as far as BNW's maps allege he ran.
I have no idea why you want to condemn MartinI'm not condemning Martin. I'm withholding judgment. I'm simply pointing out that there is more than one way that things could have gone down.
Maybe Zimmerman did follow Martin and then Martin turned around and attacked Zimmerman. That makes Martin guilty.
Maybe Zimmerman cornered Martin with his gun drawn and told him "you're a dead man" (or words to that effect). Martin panicked and punched Zimmerman. Zimmerman shot Martin. That makes Zimmerman guilty.
Your first scenario doesn't make Martin guilty, if only because you can't charge a corpse with a crime. The question at hand isn't whether Martin was asking for it, it's whether Zimmerman was justified in killing Martin. By now we've all heard the phone calls of both people involved and seen various other documents.
If anyone was us was on the jury, that person would be required to maintain a presumption of innocence, but we're not. No insult intended, but "withholding judgement" at this point seems much closer to willful ignorance than fairness.