Help with the cost of a custom magic item

[Cele]

I am trying to get a rough idea of what it is fair to say this item is worth. In a way it is three lesser metamagic rods and a +1 club all crammed into one package but because it is more versatile and has only three charges to spread out amongst all of its effects I am a little stumped.

Tak’s Magnificent Rod of Malleable Magery

This elaborately engraved metal rod is tipped with a surprisingly solid, heavy and sharp cloudy grey crystal. The Rod may be utilized as a +1 club that does slashing damage. Any arcane spellcaster holding this item is treated as though they possessed the Eschew Materials feat. The rod holds three charges which slowly replenish themselves each 24 hour period. Expending a charge allows the caster to cast a spell of 3rd level or lower as though it was effected by the one of the following feats; Extent Spell, Selective Spell (each target excluded expends a charge) or Reach Spell (each one step increase expending a charge). The rod may effect a spell of 4th – 6th level by spending double the required number of charges.

Construction
Requirements Craft Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Eschew Materials, Extend Spell, Selective Spell, Reach Spell; Cost ???

Cost Notes

Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.

Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

Cost of

Club free
Masterwork Weapon 150 gp
+1 Weapon 1000 gp
Metamagic rod, Selective (Lesser) 1,500 gp
Metamagic rod, Selective (Normal) 5,500 gp
Metamagic rod, Reach (Lesser) 1,500 gp
Metamagic rod, Reach (Normal) 5,500 gp
Metamagic rod, Selective (Lesser) 1,500 gp
Metamagic rod, Selective (Normal) 5,500 gp

[clff rice]

Probably need to add some kind of cost for permanent Eschew Materials. Not sure what that cost might be.

[EWHM]

I'm going to suggest abandoning the formula for an item like this. Instead, figure an item that most mages would go for in preference to this item and an item that would be somewhat inferior to this item and use that to bracket the price.
This item, IMO, is better than a normal extend rod, despite only having 1/2 the number of effective charges per day as that sort of rod. It's probably not better than a extend rod and a selective rod put together though. So, IMO the price for it should be between those two values. Add to that the price of the +1 club. The price add for eschew materials is going to be campaign dependent---specifically, how often, if ever, do such things come up in your game? If the answer is, almost never, slap an extra 1000 gp on it. The most common use case in most people's games for eschew materials is when all your stuff has been lost or taken away, and the rod doesn't really take care of that case.

[Cheapy]

Feats are either 5k or 10k, depending on who you ask.

Also, it's a mace. Not a club. The crystal makes it so.

I'd guess the price to be around 12,500 - 15,500. Probably on the higher end, due to the versatility.

Normally, I could see something like this around 10th level. Realistically, investing two feats to craft it yourself means you can get it around level 8.

[Tels]

I think Cheapy probably has the most accurate range. Call it 14,000 to be on the safe side, and you should be good. The user is basically getting parts of 3 regular and lesser meta rods, and a +1 weapon out of the deal. It's a great little item, and we may actually be underpricing it, but 14,000 sounds about right, though I may push it as high as 20,000 if it gets abused in a campaign or in play makes it fare more useful than it appears.

[Cele]

Cheapy and Tels,

So it is worth almost as much as three normal metamagic rods despite only having 3/18ths as many charges? I understand that versatility is powerful but this item doesn't seem nearly as powerful to me as a wand of fireballs, 5 scrolls of wish or even +2 mithral full plate...

[LazarX]

Cele wrote:

Cheapy and Tels,

So it is worth almost as much as three normal metamagic rods despite only having 3/18ths as many charges? I understand that versatility is powerful but this item doesn't seem nearly as powerful to me as a wand of fireballs, 5 scrolls of wish or even +2 mithral full plate...

It's worth more then that. Besides having the bonus damage from being a mace. It has tremendous action economy advantage.

You created this weapon as a magus dream toy, presumably to do metamagic spellstriking with. It's an extremely powerful item... in the hands of the right class.

[Cheapy]

One day it's a rod of reach, lesser. The next it's a rod of extend spell, lesser. The next day, it's a 2/3rds a rod of extend, and 1/3rd a rod of reach lesser.

Drawn out over many in-game days, it's essentially a rod of lesser extend that can turn into a rod of lesser reach or lesser selective at no cost, because it's 3 rods in one. That's before taking into consideration the part about normal rods being possible too.

It completely ignores the action economy issue of juggling three rods too. You no longer have to put the rod of extend away as a move action (or just drop it if you want to risk that), and pull out the other rod as a move action. Since it's explicitly a weapon, you can even quickdraw this thing or withdraw it as part of a move. That's pretty big.

It also grants Eschew Materials, which as a feat, will add a fair portion to the cost of the item.

The reach version in this rod is better than the one in the reach rod.

Personally, I wouldn't allow it at all as it's trying to do too much. Tone it down a bit, and it'll be easier to price. But right now, it's definitely nowhere even near 3-6k.

[Some call me Tim]

I'm curious about trying the math but with such a multitude of functions it's doubtful it will produce better numbers.

First, let's look at the metamagic rods.

Essentially it's a
Metamagic rod, Selective (Lesser) plus one-half of a Metamagic rod, Selective (Normal).
So, if we build just this, it's value would be
(11000/2) + (3,000)*.75 = 7750

And pretty much the same if we made separate Metamagic rods, for Reach
and Selective, those would be 7,750 each as well.

Combine all three would 7750 + 7750*1.5 + 7750*1.5 = 31000. However this only has 1/3 the charges that such a triple rod would have, so 31000/3 = 10333.

Add +1 weapon 10333+2300 = 12633.

Now we got to add the Eschew Materials feat. There is no set feat value. Gloves of arrow snatching are 4000 while Alertness via an ioun stone is 10000. So let's call it 4000.

I get a value of 16633 give or take. I'm a bit surprised, that is actually quite close to what Cheapy and Tels estimated.

[Staffan Johansson]

This is actually the exact kind of item the "multiple similar abilities" discount is intended for: multiple abilities all drawing from a common source of charges. Just like a staff.

First things first: your costs are only half the actual cost for the items. I'm guessing you looked at the creation cost rather than the market price, which of course is wrong. So double everything in order to calculate things using the proper base price: 3k for each of the lesser rods, 11k for the normal rods, and 2,300 for the club +1.

Then I'd start with using half the cost of the normal rods, for 5,500 gp "each". That gives us three rods worth 5,500 gp and three worth 3,000 gp. One of the normal rods gets 25% off, and another plus all the lesser rods get 50% off. So that's:
5,500 (100% of 5,500)
+4,125 ( 75% of 5,500)
+2,750 ( 50% of 5,500)
+4,500 ( 50% of 3,000, x3)
Total (for the rod part): 16,875 gp

Now, let's look at the weapon part. That's 2,000 gp for the +1, and 300 for the masterwork club (most rods that can be used as weapons are light maces rather than clubs, but those 5 gp are kind of beside the point here). I'd multiply the 2,000 gp by 1.5 because you're combining a weapon with a utility item, avoiding the issue of swapping between them, so that would be 3,300 gp.

16,875 + 3,300 = 20,175 gp.

That's ignoring Eschew Materials, which no-one is ever going to call a powerful feat. Let's use that as an excuse for bringing the item up to a nice, even 21,000 gp. Heck, let's throw in the 5 gp for making it a light mace instead for free in that cost :)

[Cele]

Some call me Tim wrote:

I'm curious about trying the math but with such a multitude of functions it's doubtful it will produce better numbers.

First, let's look at the metamagic rods.

Essentially it's a Metamagic rod, Selective (Lesser) plus one-half of a Metamagic rod, Selective (Normal).

So, if we build just this, it's value would be (11000/2) + (3,000)*.75 = 7750

I don't think that math is quite right because the item you are describing would have 3 charges for lvl 1-3 spells and 1.5 charges for lvl 1-6. Rather than 3 for lvl 1-3 OR 1.5 for lvl 1-6. Hrm... perhaps if I changed the item to have a total of six charges it would fit your model better? ( 3 from the lesser rods and 3 from the normal rods)

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Then I'd start with using half the cost of the normal rods, for 5,500 gp "each". That gives us three rods worth 5,500 gp and three worth 3,000 gp. One of the normal rods gets 25% off, and another plus all the lesser rods get 50% off. So that's:
5,500 (100% of 5,500)
+4,125 ( 75% of 5,500)
+2,750 ( 50% of 5,500)
+4,500 ( 50% of 3,000, x3)
Total (for the rod part): 16,875 gp

Now, let's look at the weapon part. That's 2,000 gp for the +1, and 300 for the masterwork club (most rods that can be used as weapons are light maces rather than clubs, but those 5 gp are kind of beside the point here). I'd multiply the 2,000 gp by 1.5 because you're combining a weapon with a utility item, avoiding the issue of swapping between them, so that would be 3,300 gp.

16,875 + 3,300 = 20,175 gp.

That math seems close but much like "Some Call Me Time"s item I feel the item you are describing would have 3 charges for lvl 1-3 spells and 1.5 charges for lvl 1-6. Rather than 3 for lvl 1-3 OR 1.5 for lvl 1-6.

Wizards are not proficient in the light mace. Keeping it a club prevents them from having a -4 non-proficiency penalty. I will change the item description the next time I describe the item.

[Staffan Johansson]

Cele wrote:

That math seems close but much like "Some Call Me Time"s item I feel the item you are describing would have 3 charges for lvl 1-3 spells and 1.5 charges for lvl 1-6. Rather than 3 for lvl 1-3 OR 1.5 for lvl 1-6.

Nope. The lesser rods get the 50% discount, so they draw from the same set of charges. If I was making an item with two sets of charges, the discount for the lesser rods would have to start over from the beginning, and they'd also get hit with another x1.5 for multiple different abilities. It would look something like this:

1. Normal part: 5,500 + 5,500x75% + 5,500x50% = 12,375 gp
2. Lesser part: 3,000 + 3,000x75% + 3,000x50% = 6,750 gp. Multiply by 1.5 for a second power in the same item, for a total of 10,125 gp
3. +1 weapon: 2,000 gp x 1.5 for a third power in the same item, for a total of 3,000 gp.

Total: 25,500 gp. Add maybe 1k for Eschew Materials and masterwork weapon, so call it 26,500 or maybe 27k. Of course, a "1.5 charge" item would be silly, so I wouldn't do that - it'd either be 1 charge (for a total price of about 4k less) or 3 charges (for about 12.5k more)

For what I suggested in my original post, I extended the rule about creating staffs where you can have some abilities draw more charges, and get a proportionally smaller cost for them. That's basically what I'm doing here: twice the charges, half the price for the "normal" rod abilities. After that, you have six abilities drawing on a common set of charges, which gives you one at full price, one at 25% off, and the rest at half off. Technically I should apply the discounts first and then halve the cost for using multiple charges (that's how it's done for staffs), but in this case it doesn't change anything.

Quote:

Wizards are not proficient in the light mace. Keeping it a club prevents them from having a -4 non-proficiency penalty. I will change the item description the next time I describe the item.

Ah, didn't think of that.