Dealing with Shadow companion headache


Advice

Liberty's Edge

So I've got a player who's a fighter/shadow dancer. All the abilities of the Shadowdancer are fine...except the shadow. This thing is stealing the show in my Kingmaker game, because 90% of the creatures they are encountering have no way to deal with this thing. They fought a Froghemoth in the Hook Tongue Slough section....and the shadow ended up draining the monster of str COMPELETLY. They are a Level 9, and the Frog is a CR 13 and the shadow just totally gimped it. This happens in most encounters with BBEG's. You cant even really destroy it with its good hp and taking 1/2 damage from everything.I've thought about how it heals, and it seems it would be able to ehal itself with its own touch (Just as the lich in Varhold is noted as being able to do). It would also be rather obvious if I went out of the way to put this thing in check.


Animals are not good for fighting incorporeal things, and neither are magical beast. You will have to make some changes to enemies so they have a chance to challenge the party.


Starfinder Superscriber

Constructs and elementals.


Achilles wrote:
So I've got a player who's a fighter/shadow dancer. All the abilities of the Shadowdancer are fine...except the shadow. This thing is stealing the show in my Kingmaker game, because 90% of the creatures they are encountering have no way to deal with this thing. They fought a Froghemoth in the Hook Tongue Slough section....and the shadow ended up draining the monster of str COMPELETLY. They are a Level 9, and the Frog is a CR 13 and the shadow just totally gimped it. This happens in most encounters with BBEG's. You cant even really destroy it with its good hp and taking 1/2 damage from everything.I've thought about how it heals, and it seems it would be able to ehal itself with its own touch (Just as the lich in Varhold is noted as being able to do). It would also be rather obvious if I went out of the way to put this thing in check.

Eat the Fighter, shadow go bye bye

Liberty's Edge

Martiln wrote:
Eat the Fighter, shadow go bye bye

Not quite. In short order the Frog's str was such that the fighter could best its CMD. And it's fairly shadowy inside a Frog's throat, so an easy shadow jump out...By round 3, the Frog had a str 0f 5....The point is, I don't want to add non-drainable monsters to every other encounter. I have to wonder who play-tests these classes. One attack a round might be fine, but TWO? Or maybe a limited amount of time each day a shadow can be summoned....but that's not the case as written.

Sovereign Court

If they're level 9, you should be able to give everything magical attacks. The shadow will take half damage from attacks with magical weapons (including magic natural weapons) and most spells, and full damage from force spells (like Magic Missile).

Just give people magical attacks/spells and throw in a few force spells and maybe somebody with a Ghost Touch weapon - that'll scare your fighter a bit. Remember, the shadow only has half the HP of the fighter.

Also, while shadows can ignore armor bonuses, they have a fairly low to-hit; dex-dependent enemies can pretty much ignore them.

Liberty's Edge

In older additions, creatures with enough HD could affect foes needing magic to be hit. Nothing like that in Pathfinder, is there?


Alter some monsters chosen feats to include Eldritch Fang (all natural attacks count as magical and silver) and replace something useless like skill focus stealth, full attack the shadow once and its goodbye for it as it wont last against things with magical natural attacks, (limit Eldritch fang to magical beasts, aberations and other creatures one would expect to have magical natural attacks).

Liberty's Edge

Michael Foster 989 wrote:
Alter some monsters chosen feats to include Eldritch Fang (all natural attacks count as magical and silver) and replace something useless like skill focus stealth, full attack the shadow once and its goodbye for it as it wont last against things with magical natural attacks, (limit Eldritch fang to magical beasts, aberations and other creatures one would expect to have magical natural attacks).

Hur was unaware of this feat. Thanks.


Keep in mind killing the shadow is pretty bad for the PC

Quote:
If a shadow companion is destroyed, or the shadowdancer chooses to dismiss it, the shadowdancer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude save. If the saving throw fails, the shadowdancer gains one permanent negative level. A successful saving throw avoids this negative level. A destroyed or dismissed shadow companion cannot be replaced for 30 days.

I'm not saying don't kill it, but it's very metagamey to suddenly have every monster be major threat.

It's been noted before that this class feature isn't handled well by most APs. In some respects you could probably get away with adding a few more opponents that do annoying things if not focused down first.


Achilles wrote:
One attack a round might be fine, but TWO? Or maybe a limited amount of time each day a shadow can be summoned....but that's not the case as written.

Where did he get second attack? Haste? Because, while the shadow uses his master's BAB, the incorporeal touch does not get iterative attacks at BAB +6 or more as a natural attack (compare greater shadows that has exactly BAB +6 and does not get second attack).


Achilles wrote:
I've thought about how it heals, and it seems it would be able to heal itself with its own touch (Just as the lich in Varhold is noted as being able to do).

This is wrong.

The description of the lich states:

"A lich's touch attack uses negative energy to deal 1d8 points of damage to living creatures + 1 point of damage per 2 Hit Dice possessed by the lich. As negative energy, this damage can be used to heal undead creatures. A lich can take a full-round action to infuse itself with this energy, healing damage as if it had used its touch attack against itself."

There is no equivelent in the description of a shadow. All it states is "A shadow's touch deals 1d6 points of Strength damage to a living creature. This is a negative energy effect. A creature dies if this Strength damage equals or exceeds its actual Strength score."

The shadow should not be able to heal itself via its own touch.

Unless the group uses negative energy damage dealing spells or effects (inflict wound spells, negative energy channelling clerics, antipaladin touch of corruption and the like) it will not be instantly healed after every encounter.

As stated by Drejk, though not stated in the description of a shadowdancer it seems likely that the rules as intended do not expect the shadow companion to have iteritive attacks. None of the powerful incorpreal undead have more than one attack despite having a base attack bonus that would normally allow this (e.g. both a wraith and a greater shadow have a bascis attack bonus of +6, yet both only have one attack).

I think if you stop the free healing and limit the shadow companion to one attack per round unless magically hatsed or similar you will find it much more manageable.


The shadow only get half hit points from the shadow dancer class only not any fighter hp at all.

One of the Undead traits states:
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature's Intelligence score.

Shadows have a 6 int so in can heal it self. I would limit this to what ever the normal healing rate it is for PC's I think that's level per day. So a shadow is a cr3 creature so it would get 3 hp per day.

Now a shadow companion would only get a second attack if it had haste cast on it or it the had 8 levels or more in the shadow dancer class ONLY! The shadow uses the bab of the shadow dance only, no fighter bab period.

Fighter 5th level(Stealth 5 ranks requirement)
4th shadow dancer
bab +3 fort +1 ref +2 will +1. No shadow second attack, at lest not until 8th level shadow dancer.


Two options :
Ask the player to calm it down cause he is ruining the game, if he refuses explain that slather shadow is an undead- not an evil one but still....
Spread the word about this evil fellow with undead killing animals to a Druid circle - than kill the fighter .
Than revive him and re ask him to play nice.
In a match between Dm and player a player cannot win.

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