I agree with Nihimon, there's a good chance Pathfinder Online will use Eve's Ambulation Trinity engine, just to cut out all that middleman of handling stuff in realtime even when disconnected.
Another +1 to Nihimon. If you have an engine in-house there is no reason to add the monstrous hassle of dealing with the licensing of another entity's graphic's engine. OR to put it more simply. There's no reason to bring sand to the beach :)
Goblin Squad Member
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Another +1 to Nihimon. If you have an engine in-house there is no reason to add the monstrous hassle of dealing with the licensing of another entity's graphic's engine. OR to put it more simply. There's no reason to bring sand to the beach :)
Well I don't think that Eve's engine can be considered "In house". While I'm not 100% sure who owns the rights to it, I'm pretty sure it isn't owned by Ryan. Now he does most likely personally know whoever is in charge of it, He is a former CCP executive, which gives him pull, but that is a long shot from calling it "In house". That dosn't make it a bad or good idea, but it isn't necessarally much easier then licensing middleware from other companies.
Also I'm not really certain how good eve's engine would be for pathfinder. While it's true, the skill leveling etc... is going to be similar to eve. I would imagine the difference in the physics engines would be rather significantly different when comparing air/space vs a ground/land focused game. I could be way off, but logically physics is far more work to retune then an offline skill system.
Chief Technical Officer
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Another +1 to Nihimon. If you have an engine in-house there is no reason to add the monstrous hassle of dealing with the licensing of another entity's graphic's engine. OR to put it more simply. There's no reason to bring sand to the beach :)
CCP Games has nothing to do with Goblinworks, other than being the former employer of at least two team members.
I'm hoping they use something really powerful like the Unreal Engine. Saw a trailer for another upcoming F2P sandbox today on Unreal 3 and it blew my mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT40EhYgy-g
Well whatever engine you do decide to use, you may want to think about using one that allows a broad selection of computers access to the game. I mean unless you do not mind going free to play after the first month and then closing the servers in under a year.
The key to a successful MMO is a large, loyal player base, as Pathfinder does indeed have, however a player base is only as large as the people who can actually run the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well whatever engine you do decide to use, you may want to think about using one that allows a broad selection of computers access to the game. I mean unless you do not mind going free to play after the first month and then closing the servers in under a year.
The key to a successful MMO is a large, loyal player base, as Pathfinder does indeed have, however a player base is only as large as the people who can actually run the game.
It sounds like the game is going to start FTP but you'll need to buy skill training time.
Anyway I'm sure they have taken the fact people will need to run their game into consideration, and that ultimately their decision will be guided by what fits the needs of what they want to create the best, while allowing the vast majority of their playerbase to enjoy the best performance possible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was half-expecting an announcement on the 4/25 blog, because that was 3 blogs after the one where they said they'd be making announcements in "the next few blogs". However, I realize "few" doesn't always mean three.
If they go another 4 blogs without saying anything, I'll start to worry.
LOL. Jumping barrels to level up, and everything? They might need to remove those hammers, though, they were a little bit overpowered.
I believe it's been stated that they plan on licencing different components from different licensors...
Is there any chance that some of those licences are already done, and thus can be announced NOW,
even if some of the other components' licences are still being worked over by the lawyers?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I believe it's been stated that they plan on licencing different components from different licensors...
I don't remember ever reading anything to suggest that. Any idea where you got that impression?
In fact, from a recent post debunking the idea of using the Cryengine:
Cryengine is a client-side rendering system and media management system (I.e audio, etc). It isn't a back-end system for managing hundreds of thousands of state-dependent variables in near-realtime, or a billing system, or a customer service/GM system, or a transaction processing engine, etc., etc., etc.
That makes it sound to me like they're looking for an engine that does all of those things, etc., etc., etc...
It is almost a must to have different engines handle the various elements of game building and operating post production.
Account/billing/mtx management.
Server systems and database.
Graphics
World building/populating
And smaller more defined elements such as hit/collision detection.
I don't know of any one engine that can handle it all, or do everything "best". Although admittedly I haven't been keeping up on some of them as much as I have in the past. Each will bring something new to the table and may add to the larger picture, what another one alone couldn't. It will, as usual, come down to cost effective. Or, Can they get the desired affect without being "best in class" at whatever it is they are looking at.
The most critical will be graphics and world building, esp in a sandbox style changing landscape. Both for obvious reasons.
My guesses for those 2 area's are UR4(one can hope anyway,) and Big world.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For those who don't read Ryan's link, the plan is to announce the Middleware when they have the Tech Demo complete so that they can show everyone what they're going to be doing with the engine at the same time (or slightly before?) they announce it. The reason being that they didn't want people's preconceptions about the middleware to color their expectations about what PFO will look like.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just saw this video on the Source Filmmaker (WARNING: Video Auto-Plays) from Steam and think this might be a natural fit for PFO, since Steam is trying to position itself as a service company managing most of the things Ryan has stated he'd rather Goblinworks not have to worry about (Billing, etc.).
Seeing that video, it would also make perfect sense why GW is interested in developing their own artwork inside the engine before announcing it, since the artwork in the video is most definitely on the cheesy/cartoony end of the spectrum.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon: Did not realize it could handle mmorpgs:
Wiki: "Source was created to power first-person shooters, but has also been used professionally to create role-playing, side-scroller, puzzle, MMORPG, top-down shooter and real-time strategy games."
Apparently Vindictus uses it. But SOURCE: "Robust networking and multiplayer features include support up to 32-player LAN and Internet games, an integrated server browser, and voice and text messaging."
So I assume the numbers are limited if using this engine, then?
Well, of further interest, Big Worlds was licenced by Copernicus and Dominus was using Hero... and both are no more! The mmorpg path is littered with the bodies of the fallen it seems. :O
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Also, I was looking at Shadowrun Online, and this proto demo shows a perspective I like the look of (personally), of interest either way:
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The 32 player limit looks exactly like a software setting to keep server loads reasonable. Running a beefier server with different settings should be sufficient.
Using Steam to handle billing and distribution appears to be a good idea- if it isn't the final resolution, it's my favorite theory for the idea that fell through.