Darkrunner's page

@ Nihimon

I see your point, having reread your initial comment. I still think that authors will (and should) avoid "classes", per say, because real people are more interesting than that.
*shrugs* I will withdraw from discussing literature, however. Carry on with your conversation.

I wonder how much impact games like this will have on the next generation of fantasy authors. Will they generally constrain their characters to something that would make sense in a fantasy role-playing game?

Personally, I doubt it. As someone who prides themselves on being able to write a decent book, you strive pretty hard NOT to fall into stereotypes. The characters that you stereotype end up being remarkably flat and one dimensional, and everyone wants to make their own characters unique and whatnot. Imagine a character in a book that was ONLY a "fighter", or just a "Ranger". It happens, but not in decent literature.

oops, sorry about that. I didn't mean to post that last (blank) post.

What I was intending to attempt was this: I really like the idea of being able to train other players and whatnot. If I get started in the game, I want to eventually introduce friends to the game. If I do so, I don't want to be forced to a) create a new character just for playing with them, or b) carry them because I am significantly more advanced.

A con, however: I'm not sure how, but it seems like there would be SOME way just to create a farm for skill points, that would allow a hoard of angry people to run around, far more powerful than they really should be.

*Shrugs* Or not. Who knows.

So I've been following this so far, and have to put in for Incremental Launch so far. That being said...

You were all about how the game was going to be built around those players and the core pathfinder community, and how the key idea was that it was not just a beta TEST but true development based strongly on player feedback.
Thus, I propose the term:

Community Development Launch
or
Community Dev Launch

The second just sounds better, in my opinion.

The point being: It's generic, it can be used in other games, and it sums up exactly what is going on - The launch of a game still being actively developed by the community.

In the case of sex, they've already got the loaded AK-47, and it's not like you can take it away from them.

Well, you COULD. That's just a whole different set of issues to work through with your kid...

That being said, I'd never thought of the comparison between sex as a problem and violence as the same that way before. I don't have children myself, but the analogy nevertheless made me smile and - more importantly - shed a new light on the difference between the two, at least for me.
Good work.

My Friends-
I saw this blog a little late (woke up Thursday, and realized that yesterday was Wednesday), but I'm thrilled with the choices that have been made.
I was admittedly concerned by the rampant account hacking displayed on GW2 release, and am thrilled about authentication. I wish to have a toast with you fine people: Here's to hoping it will indeed be only 30 seconds, and not 5 minutes for the email version.

Also, I just wish, (as long as I propose a toast) to raise my glass to the Naming System that Goblinworks has decided to implement. No more Drizzt The XVII, no more imafighter2, and no more obscene slap-in-the-face names.
Here's to immersion.

A third toast will be briefly downed to the lack of filters. Every filter I have ever played with is either paranoid beyond all get out, or useless. Either way, they can be circumvented, and the paranoid ones just frustrate normal conversation.
To sensible speech.

And now, a final toast - and be sure that Blaeringr didn't slip something in your drink - let us stand for this one:
To the tech demo! Prepare ye the way!

If we stick only to rock solid, hard core, never experimenting techniques, we would never progress anywhere. I applaud GW and Ryan for his irrational pursuit of something amazing.
Honestly, if you are looking for a totally straight faced, cards close to the chest, completely marketable WOW clone, you've come to the wrong game, and the wrong community of gamers.

To quote Thomas Edison himself: "Hell, there are no rules here - we're trying to accomplish something."

We ready to move on, now?

First off, I came here expecting races between monstrous PCs. Like the Half-Ogre 50m dash. Then I opened it, and thought, "Oh...of course."

Anyways, I imagine that this sort of thing would be initially unavailable. GW has a lot on their plate right now, and I assume that monsters as PCs are not high on their priority list. That being said, I can definitely see this idea going somewhere, as Monstrous PCs are a supplemental part of pretty much every RPG.
I think your idea for how to progress it is interesting, and I can't think of anything to reply to it right now (I'm tired). I'm sure someone far more capable has something clever to say about this.
In short: Don't get your hopes up for playable monsters on release, or 50m ogre dashes.

Ranger or Wizard, depending. I'd like to second Caedryan's statement of gameplay being a major influence, but...
I'll probably have a sophisticated good aligned wizard type crafter/builder/gets-stuff-done-er for when I want to really PLAY the game.
Then - on a second account - just a ranger or fighter (gameplay depending) for just going and smashing stuff or ambushing a caravan. You know? Some days, you just don't really want to accomplish anything except looting a dungeon and ruining the day of some nice person.

It's the internet. Nobody takes anything with a grain of salt...

People tell me to cut down on sodium intake, but I tend to take THAT with a grain of salt.

I have to agree that sitting around for 8 hours is a quick recipe for death, or a mage who suddenly finds that he has no friends.

That being said, I would despise a game that does what DDO did. Sure, a wizard has to be able to hold his own in combat, if he only has two spells with a ridiculous recharge, he's useless in a fight. But when it comes down to it, a magic missile should not be the exact same as an arrow with a different animation. And fireball is the same, but has slightly higher damage. And Poison is the exact same as that, except it is purple, and deals 3 damage over 30 seconds.

Additionally, spells that deal "3 damage over 30 seconds" are kind of pointless. So? In 30 seconds, the goblin is dead anyways, or the dragon just doesn't care.

Basically, if you're going to do magic, do some MAGIC. Otherwise, you might as well be a ranger, and get a favored enemy to boot.

I've been keeping fairly quiet on this one, but I want to throw in my two cents: So, aside from immersion breaking - which has been thoroughly covered - a memory I have was that I was once in a party that consisted of (and I don't remember the exact names, its been a couple years) Arthur Strongbow, Drizzt something-or-other, bob jones, and imabarbarian. It was immediately obvious in under 5 minutes exactly who was playing the game seriously, and who was not.

A player who is too lazy to take 30 seconds and come up with a serious name, or at least capitalize it properly, isn't terribly likely to play it seriously for the rest of the time either. In almost every game I have played, the people who put effort into everything - including the character - are the ones who I enjoyed playing with.
imabarbarian was playing the world mostly for a "openworld halo match" and spammed the chatbox with "lol"

In short, throw me in with the elitists wholeheartedly, but if we need to exclude some people because they can't bother to come up with a serious name, we probably didn't want them in the game in the first place.

I have to agree with simple animations. I want SOME progression to show that I'm more powerful, but nothing crazy. I'm all for Pathfinder The Musical, but not on my screen during gameplay.

Also it should take a while: "Ponder and deliberate before you make a move."
But I don't think that we're exchanging random quotes here, as much as I would love to.
Okay, so I had an idea here, that is totally impossible, but even still:
Has anyone played the Total War games? For battles, it switches to a battle screen, and PCs become commanders, in charge of 3-4 units, which is portrayed as 100 men, and then armies nuke it out for either side.
Screen shots of gameplay:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/Medieval-_Total_War_Sieges.jp g

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vv1wAo5XDyc/Tm7cAOGYFiI/AAAAAAAAMDQ/wxbs4xFoF7M/s 1600/medieval+total+war1.jpg

Again, logistically hard to do, but that would be an awesome way to do massive battles.

I think that art wise, it makes the most sense to have a stylized world, with realistic art. Basically what I mean by this, is I want everything to be cartoon, but with decent proportions. Again, walking dead is a good example of this, or SOME of the original D&D art. You can't have super realism in an MMO, so cartoon is better, but that doesn't mean it has to look cheesy.
I'm all for a slightly darker, grittier look, btw, but that's another conversation altogether.

...because nothing says "secret society" like posting on a blog...

Sorry, just had to say that. I have to admit, this reminds me of one of my
all time favorite secret societies in literature, "The Brotherhood of the Hand," found in the Death Gate Cycle. Any basis here, or just pure happenstance? Either way, I like where this is going.

This line of thinking totally caught me off guard, but if you could pull
that off... I'm getting excited just thinking about it.

Hey, just looking at the last few posts about religion, and war, and what not, etc...

Wasn't it originally objected to, in that it would get us all of on some random tangents that were a waste of space? Isn't this whole discussion one of the tangents that we wanted to avoid in the first place? I'm all for discussing this kind of thing, but not HERE and NOW.

Just a personal opinion.

Wow...MMOpocalypse. That situation sounds like every casual gamer's worst nightmare, and I have to admit that you just switched my opinion on this issue. What you described sounds like no fun at all.

War does not determine who is right, only who is left.

I'm all for war, but I'd also like to throw my weight behind no arena challenge areas. I think that one of the most idiotic - well, not totally true, but - things that a MMO can do is have you head into the tavern and nuke it out for an hour with other players, and then go off and do something else.
I'm sorry, but no. I'd like to say that if you fight something, you should be fighting for your own survival, and a reason, not because you are bored out of your mind.

LOL. Jumping barrels to level up, and everything? They might need to remove those hammers, though, they were a little bit overpowered.

I always found a purpose for that chalk, signal whistle, lantern oil, and rope. Boy did I ALWAYS find a use for the rope.

Boy do I hear you. Chalk and rope every time...

I have to admit, one thing I find really irritating about MMOs in general is the lack of flexibility that is offered in tabletop games. Really, in your average MMO, if you have a sword, bow, and arrows, you are set. You don't need camping gear or food. What would you do with them? Game play allows for running, jumping, swinging, and shooting. Maybe a heal potion, once and a while.
My point is, I would like to throw my weight behind more stuff I can do with my rope and chalk.

Another thing that a lot of games are missing (that I've played) are just a little bit of totally gameplay-useless-info. It would be cool if instead of "Goblin. Enemy." Or even the information mentioned above (not saying I'd ditch that, this is in addition to that improvement) something along the lines of "Goblins are from the desert regions to the south, and are known for swarming with...etc." One sentence can make all the difference.
Of course, you'd need some way to integrate that so it wasn't a) popping up ALL the time, or b) a total waste of time, as the monster would kill you while you were reading it.
I just think that it would help with having a believable world.

Wagons are amazing, and I love riding dogs, just because...I mean...it's a RIDING DOG!

Anyways, I would add tall ships to this list. I don't mean just the kind of tall ship at a dock, you board it, and then you arrive after a loading screen. I want a tall ship I buy for myself, need a minimum crew to run, and then can sail places.
Yes, I am a maritime history junky.

Anyways, just my suggestion, and I love paintable wagons.

Myself and some associates will be founding...
Seems Legit Inc.
Your all in one resource for cheap goods, quality subject to change (still worth your time), no questions asked. Need a quick weapon? Ours our cheap. Know someone who has an amulet you want? We'll get you one just like it... just wanting to sell us some of the stuff that YOU don't want any longer? Buy, sell, trade, etc! But only if it, you know...seems legit.

Investors, associates and new recruits welcome. Just be polite, willing to adventure, sell snakeoil, and don't compromise our position.
Our main rule is that if you don't enjoy what you're doing with the company, why are you here in the first place? Be family friendly on chat. Help out other Seems Legit employees. We never betray our own.
If we get enough recruits, I might start a new thread for this. Again, we are open to recruits, but you have to seem legit.

In addition, I will probably be looking to join a bounty hunter/assassination type group, depending on the amount of time I have to invest, and the opportunities that present themselves. I might found my own if there is none, but I don't see that happening. Really, I'm looking for a group that is into the game for fun, rather than 24/7 swearing on chat...

Maybe this addresses you question, this is from the GoblinWorks blog:

"...each hex will become unique over time, gaining a story of its own that's formed from the actions of the players. People will know how certain features of the land were created, and those memories will invest the place with much more value to the world than mere random buildings would ever generate."

I think that just about sums up PFO's attitude toward this question.

Not using anything from Blizzard. :)

Vast, vast relief. Good to see that I'm just paranoid after all.

Don't eat the Nut Bread, it makes you go insane...

I understand a lot of people really dig the SteamPunk aspect of it, and like seeing flint-locks, etc. But not me.

Let me clarify: I LOATH steam punk. To me, steam punk is the worst combination of jetpacks, blimps, shiny goggles, bad plotlines, and 14 year old girls trying to be emo. Not to offend anyone, this is just my opinion.

@DeciusBrutus: They are just going with the 11 basic classes that we have all seen before to start with, according to the blog. They said they would add classes from supplements later so my fingers are crossed - gunslingers are badass - but for now...

Notice the term they used. I bet 5 bucks the middleware they just bought a license to Blizzard's WoW game engine.

I noticed that, actually, and then dismissed it as a coincidence and my imagination. Glad to see I'm not nuts, and other people are thinking that as well...

Okay, cool. That is about what I was thinking. What about the overall tech level of the game?

So yes, you get advantages, yes, you get disadvantages, but if you die, you become merely human. Play that creature of the night, but play it with cunning and guile, like it matters...

Exactly...*evil chuckle*...

I would hope the tech level evolves with the game.

Obviously, that would be ideal. The problem is, while you can simulate a growing economy, it is really hard to simulate tech invented by characters, unless there is a mechanic for it, and that could be easily abused. So unless they release an update every once in a while that is "okay, you can forge steel now!" I'm not seeing how this would work. What did you have in mind.

Oh, magical laser guns = badass.

Not going to bother quoting the whole passage right above mine, but I like where it is going. I still think there should be some major disadvantages, but this seems much more in line with what I was thinking.

In the Pathfinder RPG, gunslingers are a playable class. Clearly they are not in PFO (which makes sense, they were a little over powered anyways), but guns were available to all characters in Pathfinder RPG.
So, my question is what the tech level will be for PFO, and I'd like to know what it should be.
I can easily see PFO taking the easy LotR style fantasy world that has been used and over used(not to bash Tolkien, the guy was amazing). One of the things that always appealed to me about Pathfinder RPG was its Stephen King's Dark Tower-esk type look on technology, where there is clearly a medieval tech level, but the occasional arcane revolver makes it through. A fighter with a revolver, or a ranger who specializes in guns is one of the things that really made the gritty world of Pathfinder amazing.
I'm not saying that guns should be common place. They should be hard to craft, harder to buy, and some degree of balancing would be put in place to make it so some kid with a gun can't take down a level 20 fighter from a distance. But they should be an available weapon.
Also, what about tech level in general? Thoughts?

Not saying the benefits should outweigh the cons of such an affliction, but I'm not saying we need all the bells and whistles that Pathfinder grants vampires... especially vampires... or lycanthropes.

No kidding.

I would tend to lean more towards the original idea here, in that this is primarily a disadvantage, with small perks if you choose to play it right, as a major consequence to...well...getting eaten by a werewolf. I dislike the idea of "buying the right to be a werewolf or vampire" as I think that it falls back into so many of the problems that games like WoW have, and PFO is trying to avoid.

I can see a major problem with Vampires being that once you get one, then you get 5, and each of those makes more, and suddenly everyone is a vampire. I think that the best way to do that would be either a time limit on vampire spawn (3 hours of actual time logged in?) or maybe just poisoning a player "bitten" by a vampire, instead of them turning into vampire spawn.

Love where were-animals are going. I don't know how you would do "going mad." Becoming an NPC temporarily, perhaps? Either way, having to separate yourself from society, and warning your friends as a precaution is amazing. Or, better yet, releasing the werewolves on a full moon all at once as part of invasion.

Okay, so if I'm reading you correctly - and let me know if I totally screwed this up - YOU as the player could actually get stuck as a vampire, or running around on the full moon as a werewolf.
Whether or not this was what you were talking about, I think that this is a brilliant idea, assuming GW did it correctly. I agree that these maladies should be associated with gigantic drawbacks, and thus should not be taken on lightly. A character who just goes looking for adventure shouldn't lightly screw up by hitting the wrong button and be cursed for life. They should know and accept the risks of whatever they were doing.
Second, they would have to think about how this would affect the other players. There is a severe difference between turning into a werewolf and tearing the face off of a NPC, and doing the same to some random guy who is walking past, who then dies of no fault of his own. Of course, then you would be flagged as a criminal, so you might have to learn to seclude yourself in the wilderness for those random nights. . .
finally, would there be any benefits? Lets say I'm stuck as a vampire for life. Am I totally screwed, or can I turn my sparkly, CGI abs to my advantage?
One last thing: Vampires shouldn't have sparkly CGI abs. Just saying.

Regardless, I'm excited about pursuing this line of thought further. This could get very interesting...

You can have realistic graphics that are all sunshine and rainbows, and you can have cartoony graphics that are dark and gritty.

Well said.

I thought you might have been commenting on one of the other posts (I don't get positive feedback on a regular basis, so when it occurs I am caught a little off guard).

"Forum praise: +2 ego boost for 6 rounds."

I thought of that, actually, but there are some nice advantages to being able to push people off of cliffs. One thing I can't stand in combat is fighting at the edge of a cliff, and the cliff just being totally impassable. Thus my idea, stated above. The clipping animation idea for those areas where passing through is okay is a neat idea, though. I hadn't thought of that.

Your system that you have there with the blueprints. It needs some refining, but I think that it is brilliant. That's all.

What if there was a system in place that allowed for collision generally, with the exception of areas where there were doors, quest givers, etc. Basically, the best of both worlds. Combat wouldn't get screwed over, but around a door or a quest giver, you could still get through.
Of course, I'm sure there are issues with this, but you can't be perfect...

Okay, THAT is freaking brilliant.

Oh, I don't know about that. Those ponies are really scary. Who KNOWS what they might be transporting...

My interests focus around my FRIENDS having bread armor. I never have to carry food again!

Okay, I realize that I'm jumping on this bandwagon a little late, but I just want to give my input here. I personally love the idea of having offline characters act as NPCs, but I think there are a couple major problems with this. I would hate to log back on, only to find my character is dead. Okay, so the character can fight for himself? There would have to be limits on that kind of thing, so you didn't go on vacation, and come back to find yourself in a totally different part of the world. Also, I can totally see a form of Griefing being trolling offline characters.
Finally, I have no idea how to combat a billion bot players mining ore. Maybe a limited number of people in mines? Or a limited amount of time you can spend doing something offline? Again however, that guy on vacation just sits there and monopolizes the mine.

I think the idea is fabulous, but it needs some more discussion. (And I love how the players are getting input - at least somewhat - on this whole thing.) Thoughts?

I would just like to throw out there that I - and I admit that I am a bit of a standout on this one - consider a game based on its game play, not what it can blast me out of the water with on a screen. I have a decent computer, but I don't want to have to buy the latest and greatest computer to play anything that PFO has to offer. In addition, we've really seen the best that graphics in and of graphics themselves have to offer. As they said on the forum "SWTOR is the Avatar of the MMO industry." You can't compete with the pure graphics, and I don't want the appeal of my game to be based on how debased my character can get. I want my game to draw me in because of the options I get, the things I can do, the intricacies of the world that I have seen PFO developing. Maybe they will change that direction, but I for one would urge them not to.
I'm not saying that I want My Little Pony MMO (although that would be hilarious,) and I certainly want a darker, grittier feel. I just think that Goblinworks has already made clear that blood splattering gore is not the direction they wish to take this game, in favor of a sandbox in depth game play style.