Dex Bonus : when is it denied ?

[Quiche Lisp]

Is there a list somewhere which spells all the situations where one is denied his Dexterity Bonus ?

[lantzkev]

bump

[Nefreet]

Well, I suppose we could start a list. A character is denied his or her Dexterity bonus to AC whenever:

1) they are flat-footed
2) they are blind
3) their attacker is invisible
4) their attacker successfully feints them
5) they are pinned
6) they are helpless

[Finlanderboy]

Unbalancing Counter (Ex): At 2nd level, a flowing monk's attacks of opportunity render a struck creature flat-footed until the end of the flowing monk's next turn (Reflex DC 10 + 1/2 the monk's level + Wisdom modifier negates). This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 2nd level.

[Apocryphile]

Whenever the defender is unaware of that particular attack.

[Finlanderboy]

Apocryphile wrote:

Whenever the defender is unaware of that particular attack.

If they are pinned they are most likely aware of the attack.

[Kazaan]

Denied Dex to AC occurs in two general situations:

A) You are not aware of the attack.
B) You are physically unable to respond to the attack.

Being Blind, being attacked by an Invisible enemy, etc. fall mainly into category A; you're unaware of exactly where the attack is coming from so you don't know how to move to avoid it. Being pinned, climbing, or being feinted fall into the second category; you may be aware of the attack, but you're physically restricted and cannot avoid it. Flat-Footed mainly falls into A, though there's an implied element of "you haven't started moving yet" based on the "all turns happening in parallel" aspect of round management. Some kinds of Helpless (ie. Asleep, Unconscious, etc) will fall into both, the rest mainly fall into Category B. This is why the Uncanny Dodge ability doesn't work for being pinned, feinted, etc.; it just makes you aware of all attacks which does nothing if you're unable to respond whether you're aware or not.

For a more involved list, it's generally as Nefreet said above:
1) Flat-Footed
2) Blind
3) Attacker is invisible
4) Being Feinted
5) Pinned
6) Helpless
7) Climbing/Crossing Narrow Ledge
8) Specific spells/abilities that explicitly say the target is Denied Dex to AC (ie. Mythic Slow, Improved Deadshot, Impromptu Sneak Attack, etc)

[ArmouredMonk13]

Never.

[Taow]

Except for the cases specifically cited in your link.

[ArmouredMonk13]

Tao wrote:

Except for the cases specifically cited in your link.

Ah, sorry, forgot to put something in that post.

ArmouredMonk13 should have wrote:

Never.[/rimshot]

[Laerlorn]

Add running to the list.

[Apocryphile]

Finlanderboy wrote:

Apocryphile wrote:

Whenever the defender is unaware of that particular attack.

If they are pinned they are most likely aware of the attack.

I was adding to the list, not summarizing it! ;)

This can come up a lot if you have stealthy characters joining a combat. monster is in combat with the party tank and the sneaky PC shoots arrow from hiding/stealth/whatever within 30ft. They get their sneak dice.

I've had those sneak dice denied before, because the combat had started and the monster was being attacked by other PCs.

[lantzkev]

I've always wanted a reference of every ability, combination of feats/abilities, etc that give you flatfooted/denied dex.

IE invisibility does, stealth does, Dazzling display + performance combat + shatter display = you causing shaken for free and then any you hit are flat footed.

[Shimesen]

Magus Arcana: Prescient Attack. it denies dex to enemy for the rest of the turn when the magus hits.

[Kolyarut]

The Advanced Race Guide's Surprise Follow Through feat for Half-Orcs and Orcs. The second target of your Cleave is denied his/her Dex bonus.

And of course Improved Surprise Follow Through from the same source. All targets of Great Cleave beyond the first attack lose their Dex bonus.

[Kraytar]

So, quick question concerning this...

"The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target."

Say you had invisibility. You stealth up to your target in combat.
For your first attack, they would be denied DEX bonus because you're invisible. Because they become aware of you after your first attack, do they then gain their DEX bonus?

In other words, if you had a full round attack with invisibility (not greater invis) would all attacks that round have sneak attack or just the first?

Or, would a full round of attack only ever have sneak attack on every hit if the attacker is flanking or has Greater Invisibility? (I'm aware that you can take Greater two-weapon feint, use your first roll to feint then all subsequent attacks will have sneak attack if successful)

[Sniggevert]

Just the first attack for regular invisibility, after that you're visible and the target gets their DEX bonus back.

[Taenia]

Once you make the first attack Stealth and Invis break and you could be seen.

However, this is probably a surprise round, an initiative roll would follow perhaps allowing you to get off a full attack before they go meaning they would be flat footed.

I saw this happen to a player in a PFS scenario as he was hit by a rogue in the surprise round then finished off to dead dead in the first round because he lost initiative and was still flat footed.

[blahpers]

So, PFS does allow Stealth-enables-sneak-attack, then? Some folks still seem to think that's a house rule. (No, I do not want to start that argument.)