Hi all,
I am sorry for the title, but it's an honest question.
I have been playing TT for a LONG time, Red Box FTW!
Anyway I love pathfinder and play in a twice monthly group in the Detroit, MI area and love it.
I really like a game around 50/50 combat/RP, with good character depth, you know the kind (I hope).
So I wanted to add a tad more gaming to my life so I thought PFS might be a good anwser.
Sadly in coming to the boards to see what I might have in store, I am a tad, well disapointed.
It seems that every character is a MIN/Maxed combat monster with all the depth of your average puddle.
The Fighter/Barb/Othermeatsocks are all 7 Int/Cha Imbeciles
And all casters are Genuis level thinkers but borderline cripples. Str 5-7 (Mind you they are all healthy as hell, high Con)
Most character build advice threads seem to reinforce this "Screw Cha, your a fighter"
And it seems that if you dont start with a 20 you somehow suck.
Also it seems that there is about as much RP as in your average boxing match.
Does it just seem this way?
Or do I need to make a combat monster and just get my RP fix in my normal group?
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Welcome!
As for the builds you're seeing, keep in mind that the boards present a skewed sample. People don't have complaints/horror stories about well-rounded characters with good depth, so they don't get talked about online. Similarly, people rarely want advice on a concept, but often need help with the build to support it, so you see more about that for that reason as well.
It seems that every character is a MIN/Maxed combat monster with all the depth of your average puddle.
See above. The stinkers get talked about, but the goodies exist as well. Additionally, lots of min-maxed characters are played by brilliant roleplayers as well. I recall a Meetup discussion leading up to a local game day in which there was a long (and fantastic) in-character verbal sparring match between two pretty optimized characters.
The Fighter/Barb/Othermeatsocks are all 7 Int/Cha Imbeciles
My fighter, Cledwyn the Steadfast, has 16 INT and no INT-based class abilities.
And all casters are Genuis level thinkers but borderline cripples. Str 5-7 (Mind you they are all healthy as hell, high Con)
Again, that's what gets talked about.
Most character build advice threads seem to reinforce this "Screw Cha, your a fighter"
Also note that not all advice gets followed.
And it seems that if you dont start with a 20 you somehow suck.
I have yet to build a character with a 20 in anything. I also have yet to have a character die. You can easily get by with a 16 as your highest starting stat. If someone can't succeed without a 20, they suck at this game.
Also it seems that there is about as much RP as in your average boxing match.
This will vary by table and by scenario. Since you don't get to cherry-pick your companions, yes, sometimes you'll get people who do no roleplaying (usually not the whole table, though). Also, there are usually time constraints, so RP needs (usually) to be efficiently done. So yes, there are obstacles, but I know lots of great local roleplayers who manage to have a blast even in very combat-heavy scenarios.
Hope that answers your questions, and I hope you'll give PFS a shot!
Thank you for the replies guys.
I had hoped that what I was seeing was just the boards skewing things a bit.
Nice to know that in real games not all of it actually ocours.
I think I will give it a go and see how it all works out.
The only Races allowed are those form the core book?
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Hi all,
I am sorry for the title, but it's an honest question.
I have been playing TT for a LONG time, Red Box FTW!
Anyway I love pathfinder and play in a twice monthly group in the Detroit, MI area and love it.
I really like a game around 50/50 combat/RP, with good character depth, you know the kind (I hope).
So I wanted to add a tad more gaming to my life so I thought PFS might be a good anwser.
Sadly in coming to the boards to see what I might have in store, I am a tad, well disapointed.
It seems that every character is a MIN/Maxed combat monster with all the depth of your average puddle.
The Fighter/Barb/Othermeatsocks are all 7 Int/Cha Imbeciles
And all casters are Genuis level thinkers but borderline cripples. Str 5-7 (Mind you they are all healthy as hell, high Con)
Most character build advice threads seem to reinforce this "Screw Cha, your a fighter"
And it seems that if you dont start with a 20 you somehow suck.
Also it seems that there is about as much RP as in your average boxing match.
Does it just seem this way?
Or do I need to make a combat monster and just get my RP fix in my normal group?
Like Jiggy stated, the boards tend to draw the more extreme cases of what is going on in the whole PFS world.
I think it is defintately worth your time to check out your local PFS group and see how they are and play a few PFS games.
Nate
NYC
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I think the boards is, unfortunately, a bad place to gauge what to expect. You often see a vocal minority that are loud about the things they don't like.
I play 3 times a month (4 sessions) typically, and there are plenty of players who put a lot of thought into their character's background, roleplay, etc. Are they optimized a bit? Sure. They want to be good at the concept they have for their character.
But at a recent convention where we sat over 28 tables of PFS here in Minneapolis, I only ran into ONE, count it ONE, 7,7,7,8,20,19 Barbarian. And while I had my hackles up and was ready to be irritated by the build, the player actually roleplayed the low charisma, stupidity, and low wisdom (and low dex). He basically ran around at an 8 AC, because he didn't wear armor and had a 7 Dex. It was actually fun to watch him nearly die in every single encounter.
Give it a try. Organized play is not for everyone, but you may find the group up in Michigan fits your play style, and you could have a blast.
Try it out for a couple sessions. If it doesn't work out for you, then you've only lost a few hours out of a couple days. If it does though, woo hoo! You are in for some fun!
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I would certainly sample what the local groups have to offer before committing to a long-term relationship. And keep in mind that everyone should be doing this for fun -- if what the local groups are doing doesn't seem like fun to you, don't join them.
Also nothing says you can't recruit a bunch of players who play your style of game. That is probably the best thing to do if you really want to focus on RP and character interaction -- rather than dice rolling and combat optimization.
Play with the group you are comfortable with. Let your slots run long and RP your hearts out.
You will need to chose your modules wisely though -- there are a number of simple meat-grinders out there with little or no RP (which I think is sad, but *sometimes* fun).
Despite what posters to the boards might indicate -- there is no "wrong fun". There is what you find fun and what I find fun, and they might differ...but that doesn't mean you are doing it wrong.
Cheers and good luck.
CJ
WA VC
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Hi Furmonger,
Before I begin, let's address one thing. The boards are absolutely not a good way to get a sense for the type of person that plays PFS. I coordinate a bi-weekly game here in Toronto, and the tone of the play is quite different then what one might expect from perusing the boards. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that the vocal minority who posts here represents the thousands of players in PFS.
Anyway, on with the questions.
It seems that every character is a MIN/Maxed combat monster with all the depth of your average puddle.
The Fighter/Barb/Othermeatsocks are all 7 Int/Cha Imbeciles
And all casters are Genuis level thinkers but borderline cripples. Str 5-7 (Mind you they are all healthy as hell, high Con)
Most character build advice threads seem to reinforce this "Screw Cha, your a fighter"
And it seems that if you dont start with a 20 you somehow suck.
With our local pool of regular players - perhaps 30 between the two game stores where we play - I would say there is one, or perhaps two min-maxed characters. Personally, I've never played a character with a single-digit attribute, because personally, I'd rather play a jack-of-all-trades rather than a particular specialist. This doesn't mean that the character's not good at anything - I can think in particular of a character built as a grapple-master fighter who is pretty good at that, but nothing about his character sheet screams min-maxed.
In short, the tone of the characters depends largely on the people with whom you are playing. I suspect you'll find a lot more people open to the type of character you would like to play than your impression of the boards might suggest.
Also it seems that there is about as much RP as in your average boxing match.
This depends on the scenario, the GM, and the time limits. If you're lucky enough to find a group that is able to schedule 5 hours for a scenario, then you'll find that there can be a lot more RP.
Regardless, there can be a good mix of combat and RP. This is particularly true of season 3 scenarios, where there is often a diplomatic way to resolve conflicts rather than actual combat, so this gives an opportunity to have some RP time as well.
Does it just seem this way?
Or do I need to make a combat monster and just get my RP fix in my normal group?
As I've implied above... make the character you want, and play the game you want to play. You'll have fun.
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It seems that every character is a MIN/Maxed combat monster with all the depth of your average puddle.
No, you're getting the wrong impression from people who complain on these boards.
Based on a thread months ago, you'd think evil PCs were running rampant through PFS, yet I've played 30+ sessions and I haven't even seen a single one.
You definitely do NOT have to make an optimized PC and PFS players in general are pretty nice in my experience (although total douches at times on the forums).
So what I'm saying is that you should give it a try in your area. Get in touch with a VC, he'll know what kind of groups will suite you.
Also it seems that there is about as much RP as in your average boxing match.
I think it depends.
I'd try PFS in your area before judging. You just might like it and meet a new group of friends. Detroit has a very strong player base, I'm sure there are some great people there.
Cool, thanks again guys.
I have decided to give it a shot and just signed up for the south east MI PFS Yahoo group.
I'll keep you all posted to see how it works out.
Thanks again.
Honestly I havent the faintest idea :)
Normally I go for full casters, however my last 2 really fun characters were a Bard (Sandman) and currectly an Alchemist going MC.
So for some reason I seem to like the Half casters.
How viable is a mounted build?
I was thinking Barb/Calalier or Barb/Pali
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Well, just like in any other campaign, unless it takes place mostly in the outdoors (Kingmaker AP comes to mind) mounted classes have to do without their mounts in a significant portion of the encounters, because you just don't have a good way to get a large creature into a dungeon or building.
Many folks have mitigated this by creating gnome or halfling cavaliers.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Well, just like in any other campaign, unless it takes place mostly in the outdoors (Kingmaker AP comes to mind) mounted classes have to do without their mounts in a significant portion of the encounters, because you just don't have a good way to get a large creature into a dungeon or building.
Many folks have mitigated this by creating gnome or halfling cavaliers.
Others just sort of suck it up and focus on the other cavalier/paladin abilities. I seem to recall the samurai having some cool non-mount-related abilities.
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Others just sort of suck it up and focus on the other cavalier/paladin abilities. I seem to recall the samurai having some cool non-mount-related abilities.Well, just like in any other campaign, unless it takes place mostly in the outdoors (Kingmaker AP comes to mind) mounted classes have to do without their mounts in a significant portion of the encounters, because you just don't have a good way to get a large creature into a dungeon or building.
Many folks have mitigated this by creating gnome or halfling cavaliers.
Yes, they have some abilities that let them make rerolls on saves and such.
Cavaliers also have some cool abilities that are party buffers like the Bard has.
How viable is a mounted build?
I was thinking Barb/Cavalier or Barb/Pali
While I can't say much about the first, the second one will have issues, as a Paladin has to be lawful or you lose all paladin abilities and a barbarian has to be non-lawful or you lose rage abilities.
On mounts in general, I hear there are lots of places in PFS scenarios that do not have the space to take a mount, so you may be gimping yourself, depending on build and what scenarios you play.
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How viable is a mounted build?
I was thinking Barb/Calalier or Barb/Pali
You might encounter some challenges with a barbarian/paladin due to the alignment conflicts, but a barbarian/cavalier could be interesting. If you build it correctly, you can make a druid or ranger into a mounted build using their animal companion as the mount. The paladin is nice for PFS because you can opt out of the mount and bond with your weapon instead. As Andrew said, PC's built specifically for mounted combat will find their opportunities limited. Selecting a small race and using a medium mount can mitigate that a bit, but some players might roll their eyes at you considering that build cheesy.
As many have said, you will likely get out of the game what you put into it. There are a lot of player who are just not comfortable with role-playing, but will join in if they see others doing it. There are some GM's that don't encourage it. This is organized play after-all with 20,000+ players. That means don't pay a ton of attention to the <1% of us yahoos who troll the forums. In real life, you will find the vat majority of players and games to be inviting and a hell of a lot of fun.
Good luck and welcome!
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Venture-Captain, Arizona—Tucson
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You'll find the best roleplaying opportunities in venues where they have more time for such things. Any tightly-scheduled game will tend to squeeze out roleplaying in order to ensure the party completes the scenario. Home games and leisurely-run store games are your best opportunities to find the sort of game you want.
Pathfinder Society organized play will give you the opportunity to meet a large variety of new gamers. Once you get to know them, you can recruit some to form the type of group you prefer. With the right players and GM, you can continue playing Pathfinder Society scenarios or form a long-term group to explore other modules or adventure paths.
How viable is a mounted build?
I was thinking Barb/Cavalier or Barb/Pali
While I can't say much about the first, the second one will have issues, as a Paladin has to be lawful or you lose all paladin abilities and a barbarian has to be non-lawful or you lose rage abilities.
On mounts in general, I hear there are lots of places in PFS scenarios that do not have the space to take a mount, so you may be gimping yourself, depending on build and what scenarios you play.
Your right, for some reason I was thinking Urban Barb could be lawful.
Not sure where that came from :)
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Honestly I havent the faintest idea :)
Normally I go for full casters, however my last 2 really fun characters were a Bard (Sandman) and currectly an Alchemist going MC.
So for some reason I seem to like the Half casters.
How viable is a mounted build?
I was thinking Barb/Calalier or Barb/Pali
Well whatever character you create, if he doesn't have a 20 in his main stat he's going to totally suck.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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How did I miss this yesterday... :/ Anyway, welcome to the fold, fellow Michigander! The PFSSEMI group is pretty active. Sadly I live several hours north of most of that action, but lurk in the group anyway.
The guys I've met from down there seem like pretty good bloaks (wow, I've been watching way too much Beauty and the Geek: Australia lately...) If you weren't aware, there's a decent sized Con down in Ann Arbor/Remus area in the fall, UCon. I'm sure you'll hear about it in the yahoo group too. Anyway, again, welcome.
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I think everyone who plays Pathfinder should try Society at some point.
It shakes things up, exposes you to different play styles, personalities, builds. In short Society keeps things from getting stagnant. Society also connects you with the larger player base for rules clarification, discussion, and general socializing. It's also a great way to get educated on new rules as they come out and see those rules put into action in real scenarios not some theoretical board posts or on paper.
Not every game is worth writing home about but I do bring something away from every table. Even if it's learning something I should avoid in my own play/games. Society has certainly made me a better player and DM.
Stick with it long enough and you'll hit that "perfect" table you'll always remember.
