So I'm playing a Wizard/Cleric in a Kingmaker campaign and when and If I make it to 7th level I want a group of fawning hangers-on to polish my armor and cook my meals. That said, I totally do not want to undermine the DM or rock the game. My Dm has been excellent and seems to enjoy running the game and I do not want his job to become harder or overshadow the other players. Still its in character for me to have a crowd of kept artists, servants and personal men at arms as well as a sworn sword to do my bidding.
Currently I have a 12 Charisma and the Natural Born Leader trait so my starting leadership score should be at least 9, I should have a castle/fortress/mansion/guild-house by then because its kingmaker and I'll be 7th level and building a city is part of the AP and my character's personal ambition.
For my Cohort I'm thinking a Cavalier of the Order of Lion (possibly standard bearer) to act as my personal attendant/messenger/right hand. I don't want someone to really take up a role in most combats so much as I want a guy I can send to make proclamations, manage projects for me and make me look important. The way I see it The leadership feat gives me a cohort and followers with the standard array of attributes and the clothes on their backs.
My plan is to assume that two thirds of my Followers are Standard Servants/craftsmen and one third is warriors (my men at arms) and healers (adepts with the self sufficient feat).
That sounds fairly reasonable, to me at least.
In reality though- this is a conversation you should be having with the DM.
Lay out your plans for it all (in writing preferably) and let him look it over. Include that you don't intend for it to be someone following you around in combat to make for more critters on the field.
To me at least, this is really a good use of leadership. You have your entourage but they aren't making combat any more of a hassle than it already is.
Just my .02
-S
Sounds reasonable.
What I used once long ago (back in 3.0) was an elf paladin/monk body guard. Really all he ever did was ready an action to use if it looked like an attack was coming my way. Then he would step into the path. Rarely took up action time at the table so didn't slow down combats. Certainly didn't steal the spotlight from anybody. He had enough skills to also be a scribe following me around writing down everything that happened for my memoirs.
Consider a Bard cohort. Very fitting flavor wise, and not overpowering.
Would you believe I'm worried its too complex? My character is a Cleric of Sheyln and a bard would be very handy but I want to keep it with a race/class combination that is second nature to me and I have almost no experience with bards.
It seems like overkill to use your cohort for an attendant... just sayin'. That role could be filled by a follower quite well. Make the Cavalier cohort your Reeve, let him run your police/sentinel forces... but that's just me and my two coppers.
Entourages are fun! If you really want your cohort to be a part of the flavor more than another set of hands and eyes to manipulate event around your holdings, more power to you. I would, personally, probably use my highest-level Expert follower for the position you describe, but again, .02.
My semi-psychotic Elven Ranger has an animal companion, but that didn't keep me from thinking about taking a cohort. In the end, because I have such a low CHA (10), I elected not to take one. Now that 13th level is approaching though, I'm thinking it might be something to revisit. My role in the Kingdom has changed and I'm wondering if perhaps a cohort could be used to keep me in touch with the "people" while I'm busy during Govt. Week.
I'm not a fan of the Bard, generally, but if you need a publicist, they are good for propaganda campaigns.
I'm not a fan of the Bard, generally, but if you need a publicist, they are good for propaganda campaigns.
Turin used to be the Marshal (excellent Kingdom role for a woodland Elf such as he), however things came to a head with the previous (inept) Executioner and Turin was forced into that role. I say forced only because he would much rather spend Govt. Week out and about. He like to terrorize, err, check in I mean, with the loggers in the woods and he likes to talk to the farmers etc, etc. He can't do that now of course, has to stay in town. I'm thinking that a Druid cohort could be very useful for him indeed.
Reading your post, it sounds like simple is what you want - why not go with a high Charisma fighter? Classes don't get more simple, he can serve as bodyguard, and with some training in the social skills, can make for a passable messenger.
For followers, I recommend a table I thought up when I was considering the feat down the road - it's a percentage table you roll up for each followers, as you get them, with your DM.
Commoner - 50%
Expert - 15%
Warrior - 15%
Aristocrat - 10%
Adept - 5%
PC Class (of your choice or also random) - 5%
Commoners, which fill up about 90% of the world's population, should be the dominant group, but not to the point that you never get anything else.
Experts are quite useful, and for each one you get, you should note the skills he gets and his bonus in each (I recommend the NPC array for all NPC classes you roll - 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8). He could be a craftsman, a speakerperson (like you wanted), a knowledgable sage who can help with info from time to time, and so forth.
Warriors' roles are obvious in the group, and can be capable bodyguards for your followers while you're out.
Aristocrats offer interesting roleplaying opportunities, can loan money for other followers' needs (like crafters or alchemists), and probably have a place you can crash at, if all else fails.
Adpets have limited spellcasting, and that can be useful, but since it'll likely never be high enough for party use, they can aid your followers, much like warriors.
For a PC class, he also will likely be a non-factor, but I recommend the elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) and simply include them as people with the skills to be "leaders" among my followers - trusted lieutenants, capable captains, and worthy advisers.
I had no considerations for race yet - just pick them as you go along (favoring your own race, for obvious reasons).
In the Kingmaker campaign I am in my character is the ruler - currently Cav1/Ftr10.
He has Leadership and it has worked quite well in the campaign. His current* cohort is a Fighter who acts as his standard-bearer (in a DM created side campaign he found a dragon head standard with all sorts of fun abilities on it) who does a bit in combat but is not a burden to run.
All the followers my Leadership score gives me are essentially my bodyguard who are there just for RP flavour (and to guard the royal mobile catering staff, servants and the like - if you are going to be the ruler you may as well do it in style).
* my first cohort was a modified Cavalier's mount - a "Shield-bearer" called Minion who lasted about 3 levels. At least he had a town, Minionville, named after him.
* when I took Leadership I got a Kobold Bard named Giacomo. He lasted until about level 9 before he died freeing a community of kobolds from Drow tyranny (the same side quest). He was memorialised as the town of Giacomo's Rest when we took the kobolds into our kingdom.
* poor old Giacomo was replaced by Giselle, a spunky Sorcerer destined to become my Duchess. Alas a Disintegration spell (and no Raise Deads etc in our campaign) ended that potential romance.
* hence the latest cohort being the toughest, most heavily armoured cohort in all the realms!
Just because commoners are the most common type of person doesn't mean you have to hire any of them.
However if you are say running a castle there are loads of jobs for commoners to do so they might forms a high percentage anyway.
The commoners work for me however.
My character is a Wizard/Cleric of Sheyln and it is my duty to inspire and guide artists and craftsmen. Here is my template for my kept artists
In game I've started sketching out a tapestry of our adventure for weavers to eventually record, paid Svetlana hundreds of gold for Pavilion tents for the entire party with our personal heraldry incorporated into them and hired 40 miners, smiths, carpenters and laborers to rebuild the temple of the elk and work the golden bear mine. I also saved the bear and tatzlewyrm hides in hopes of making clothing and armor out of them.
While the Cohort is nice and all the reason I am taking the leadership feat is to have dozens of artists and craftsmen at my beck and call, building things at my direction.
One other point:
I am planning on commissioning and enchanting a mithril and darkwood glaive (my Gm has generously ruled that a glaive is 4 pounds metal, 6 pounds wood so that is not as bad a buy as it sounds) called Heaven's Bite (an iconic weapon known throughout the land as the king's signature weapon).
That said as a Mystic Theurge with a strength of 9 I'll almost never wield it. In fact I plan on using it as a flagpole for a magical battle standard. However I will absolutely allow my champion to wield my glaive in battle and carry my battle standard.
Tactician Fighter is looking really good for this, I lose a little in combat effectiveness but I gain in skills available and all around utility.
There, I have a bad-ass battle attendant and an emissary to send out to perform tasks.
Here ya go, simple, can perk up a crowd and handle himself at banquets, durable and effective.
If your fiefdom involves yeomanry -- "peasants" granted land in exchange for military services -- there's no reason to use commoners for anything besides noncombatant servants. Warriors get just about the same skill list -- including Craft and Profession skills -- and the same number of skill points.
Fishermen: Craft/Nets & Twine, Profession/Sailor
Shepherds: Craft/Weaving, Profession/Butcher
etc., etc.
And they all maintain their own arms and armor, escort their own noncombatants to the fortress when danger approaches, and then help defend said noncombs from atop the battlements.
And can be proactive about goblin raiders, etc.
If your fiefdom involves yeomanry -- "peasants" granted land in exchange for military services -- there's no reason to use commoners for anything besides noncombatant servants. Warriors get just about the same skill list -- including Craft and Profession skills -- and the same number of skill points.
Fishermen: Craft/Nets & Twine, Profession/Sailor
Shepherds: Craft/Weaving, Profession/Butcher
etc., etc.
And they all maintain their own arms and armor, escort their own noncombatants to the fortress when danger approaches, and then help defend said noncombs from atop the battlements.
And can be proactive about goblin raiders, etc.
Not only is that out of the spirit of what I am going for but it gives me craftsmen with bad stats for craftsmen. I primary want artists and am treating the soldiers as the necessary evil for the artists.
It only gives you bad stats for craftsmen if you build 'em that way... not that follower stats shine in any case. I never had problems with the crafting done by warriors, because I made sure not to dump their intelligence.
We are coming at followers from very different places, quite obviously.
My main concern is with survivability, durability... I'd kind of like the majority of my followers to survive an influx of goblinoids out of the wilds. Etc.
Then again, I'm not playing Kingmaker, and don't know about the setting. I tend to use the old 'clear an uncivilized region of monsters and found a township' model when I start getting followers... not the place to stick a commune of artsy types, if you want them to survive. If you're just recruiting from an established city, you don't have to worry so much about threats from the surrounding regions.
It only gives you bad stats for craftsmen if you build 'em that way... not that follower stats shine in any case. I never had problems with the crafting done by warriors, because I made sure not to dump their intelligence.
We are coming at followers from very different places, quite obviously.
My main concern is with survivability, durability... I'd kind of like the majority of my followers to survive an influx of goblinoids out of the wilds. Etc.
Then again, I'm not playing Kingmaker, and don't know about the setting. I tend to use the old 'clear an uncivilized region of monsters and found a township' model when I start getting followers... not the place to stick a commune of artsy types, if you want them to survive. If you're just recruiting from an established city, you don't have to worry so much about threats from the surrounding regions.
When you are building with the 3 pt standard array you basically have a choice of one thing to be good at. In addition it divides what feats you can dedicate. My soldiers are good soldiers because their stats and feats reflect that goal, if I made them to be craftsmen soldiers I would have to compromise their skill, stats or feats making them less effective. I may only have a a small amount of them but that means I can dedicate more buffs and higher quality equipment to them. Meanwhile my Commoner artisans and performers are masters at their trades and ensure that my soldiers are among the best equipped and motivated in the country.
I want my Followers to populate a castle and or a fortified camp, not march against my enemies, I can do that, with my nation's troops. These people are my personal followers and it makes sense for them to reflect my beliefs and desires.