I've seen a couple threads around here about Time Thieves, most of them coming to the same conclusion I did - that they're somewhat martially underpowered but otherwise a good class.
But I haven't seen any about actually *building* one.
Right now, I'm going to be playing in a 3rd-level campaign as a Time Thief. The other players are an Archaeologist Bard, a Lotus Geisha Bard, a Mystic Godling, a Psychic Warrior, and Fighter specializing Archer.
Obviously the Archaeologist is going to be a heck of a skillmonkey, so my job is probably going to be debuffing. I wrote the class into the setting (with the GM's help) as a sort of time-wielding assassin order, so leaning towards that, I'm planning on specializing in Stealth. Also, my GM has a houserule that lets me sacrifice a feat for the equivilant of Extra Talent, so I'm thinking about picking up an extra time talent to help the debuffing go smoother.
Oh, and just to be more complicated, I'm an Elan.
Thoughts? Ideas? Builds? Anything would be helpful.
Well like you said, the time thief doesnt do ALOT of damage, but there are a few paths you can take. Your primary stats are charisma and dex. If you are focused on the debuffing aspect then char is your primary stat then dex. You would move in and out of combat (good acrobatics helps) using abilities like steal time to weaken opponents that the psychic warrior and fighter would then hammer into the ground.
As soon as you could get it the entropy avenum is almost a must have. It is the only good damage option the time theif has.
The time thief in my group went two weapon fighting with a light shield in his off hand, but never really got alot out of it. And with an archer, psych warrior and 2 bards in your party damage just doesnt need to be your responsibility. Though you still might want to use a shield to add to your ac, I dont recommend trying to attack with it. In fact if you can use it the touche feat from SGG's Feats of Battle might be useful. You just want to hit and do some damage for your debuffs (the ones that require attacks) the loss of a few points of damage from touche might be worthwhile.
Well like you said, the time thief doesnt do ALOT of damage, but there are a few paths you can take. Your primary stats are charisma and dex. If you are focused on the debuffing aspect then char is your primary stat then dex. You would move in and out of combat (good acrobatics helps) using abilities like steal time to weaken opponents that the psychic warrior and fighter would then hammer into the ground.
As soon as you could get it the entropy avenum is almost a must have. It is the only good damage option the time theif has.
The time thief in my group went two weapon fighting with a light shield in his off hand, but never really got alot out of it. And with an archer, psych warrior and 2 bards in your party damage just doesnt need to be your responsibility. Though you still might want to use a shield to add to your ac, I dont recommend trying to attack with it. In fact if you can use it the touche feat from SGG's Feats of Battle might be useful. You just want to hit and do some damage for your debuffs (the ones that require attacks) the loss of a few points of damage from touche might be worthwhile.
Mine I did a dervish dancer build it was a little weak up to around 3rd level when I was able to take the Dervish Dance feat. I used Chakrams as my ranged weapon. Once I hit 4th level I really started to catch up. 5th level will be my game changer as I'll be able to take opportune blow from the time thief/warden bullet point, making me a good flanking buddy.
dervish dance works well for the time theif as it eliminates strength as a concern (except to carry your gear) and you already arent optimized for damage, so why not one hand a scimitar?
I was thinking about going with dual-wielding short swords, so that I could hit repeatedly and keep chaining attacks, but wow, Dervish Dance is great. I think I'm gonna borrow that, that's really nifty.
I'll see if my GM lets me use Feats of Battle, I dunno if he will. Right now I'm looking at something like this:
Strength 10, Dexterity 14, Constitution 13, Intelligence 15, Wisdom 14, Charisma 15
blah blah blah skills
Skill Focus: Stealth
Extra Talent: Steal Fate
Talents: Steal Time
Scimitar, Chain Shirt (or lower, maybe leather).
I might drop "being an Elan" in favor of that human bonus feat, but I like the flavor we worked in for being an Elan so I'm probably keeping it. Also there are some wicked Psionic Feats (CLOAK DANCE, SPEED OF THOUGHT) that I could use to make this a little meaner.
Kinda wish I could manifest a power but I don't feel like dipping a level and potentially losing my 20th-level ability.
EDIT:
Oh, uh, +2 Elan Ability Bonus into Dexterity or Charisma?
I wanted the dex mainly because I was roped into the alternate rogue slot in our group. Which change after I hit 3rd level though trap spotting has come in handy. My character is far from optimized if I roll another one there are definite changes I would make to the build. Like the 101 renegade feat that gives the Time Thief extra motes.
Maybe go strength so I can take Opportune Blow at 3rd instead of 5th, go Dex with finesse and exotic Prof Elven Curve Blade. Or Scimitar one handed with power attack.
I was thinking about going with dual-wielding short swords, so that I could hit repeatedly and keep chaining attacks, but wow, Dervish Dance is great. I think I'm gonna borrow that, that's really nifty.
I'll see if my GM lets me use Feats of Battle, I dunno if he will. Right now I'm looking at something like this:
Strength 10, Dexterity 14, Constitution 13, Intelligence 15, Wisdom 14, Charisma 15
blah blah blah skills
Skill Focus: Stealth
Extra Talent: Steal FateTalents: Steal Time
Scimitar, Chain Shirt (or lower, maybe leather).
I might drop "being an Elan" in favor of that human bonus feat, but I like the flavor we worked in for being an Elan so I'm probably keeping it. Also there are some wicked Psionic Feats (CLOAK DANCE, SPEED OF THOUGHT) that I could use to make this a little meaner.
Kinda wish I could manifest a power but I don't feel like dipping a level and potentially losing my 20th-level ability.
EDIT:
Oh, uh, +2 Elan Ability Bonus into Dexterity or Charisma?
Dex big time, your Cha based skills can get a d4 boost by spending a Mote if need be.
Alright. Thanks for the help, I'll see what happens and if it goes well I'll let you know!
I'd say cha is more important then dex. If I remember correctly (dont have it in front of me) steal time has a save dc doesnt it? Or is that the one that happens if you hit and do damage?
Steal Time and Still Fate both have a (Charisma-based) save DC, yeah.
Also, what's this Book of 3pp feats referenced over in http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz598r?Opinions-on-the-Time-Thief ?
Unless there's a pressing reason your wisdom and intelligence are set so high I'd drop them both down to 12 and pump charisma and dexterity. Move your feats around to accommodate dervish dance by third level.
It's rolled, not point buy.
timethief/time warden feats is a bullet point from sgg
rite publishing also put out 101 renegade class feats which covers a whole host of 3pp classes, including the time theif.
Right now, I'm going to be playing in a 3rd-level campaign as a Time Thief. The other players are an Archaeologist Bard, a Lotus Geisha Bard, a Mystic Godling, a Psychic Warrior, and Fighter specializing Archer.
I strongly recommend you pick up the Time Thief bullet point product, and get Opportune Blow. It's a big help if you are felling a little damage-light.
Right now, I'm going to be playing in a 3rd-level campaign as a Time Thief. The other players are an Archaeologist Bard, a Lotus Geisha Bard, a Mystic Godling, a Psychic Warrior, and Fighter specializing Archer.I strongly recommend you pick up the Time Thief bullet point product, and get Opportune Blow. It's a big help if you are felling a little damage-light.
Opportune Blow is the very next feat I pick up, trying to decide if I will need the Extra Motes of Time feat via 101 Renegade feats. Or should I start down the Vital Strike/Improved Critical style build.