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1. What exactly do your LE character beliefs entail?
2. If devils are trying to take over the planet I doubt they will destroy everyone. Devil's don't work like that. If your character realizes that his current companions are unwilling or unable to handle the threat then maybe it is time for you to start playing for the winning team. I would make sure that only the GM knows about this though.
It seems that the other player might be doing this already, why else distract you from the Macguffin. Even if that is not the case it is a good in-character argument that you believed it to be true so you made sure to have an out if that were the case.
1) The LE character believes in the eventual godhood of Lizardfolk, and that there is no greater goal than to bring them there. To harm or hinder the rise of his kind is the greatest sin. All races will eventually kneel before his kind, for their blood is thick with that of the primal dragons that ruled the planet before gods and men.
2) The "devilkind" are mostly devil-blooded elves that are ruled by A Mad unknown-possessed God-like Dragon, who has managed to bind many devils to his service, and is looking to destroy everything that is not himself. So, the only winning team at this point, is him.
What is cool is an individual preference, and I don't know your group that well.
I do think that if the player is a jerk then he will just continue to be a jerk. Not supporting him if he gets into trouble in combat is an option. Don't give him the flank and so on. Since your character does not like his character allowing him to die is an option.
PS:Why do you keep telling him the plans, and how is he always getting to the loot first?
I would just ignore anything he says. The party starts to walk one way, and I would not follow unless they could explain how it was a good idea. I would even start to recruit a new party. I am sure your character would not follow these guys if not for metagaming, and therefore you are in-character just like he is.
1. What exactly do your LE character beliefs entail?
2. If devils are trying to take over the planet I doubt they will destroy everyone. Devil's don't work like that. If your character realizes that his current companions are unwilling or unable to handle the threat then maybe it is time for you to start playing for the winning team. I would make sure that only the GM knows about this though.
It seems that the other player might be doing this already, why else distract you from the Macguffin. Even if that is not the case it is a good in-character argument that you believed it to be true so you made sure to have an out if that were the case.1) The LE character believes in the eventual godhood of Lizardfolk, and that there is no greater goal than to bring them there. To harm or hinder the rise of his kind is the greatest sin. All races will eventually kneel before his kind, for their blood is thick with that of the primal dragons that ruled the planet before gods and men.
2) The "devilkind" are mostly devil-blooded elves that are ruled by A Mad unknown-possessed God-like Dragon, who has managed to bind many devils to his service, and is looking to destroy everything that is not himself. So, the only winning team at this point, is him.
2.I would do everything I could to get the devils of hell to invade. Destroying a source of their souls while using them(devils) to do so can not be a small thing. Is there an in-game reason why no arch-devils or Asmodeus himself is not intervening? If you don't know how about devils in-character then getting ranks in knowledge(planes) is paramount. Since you are fighting them there really is no reason, not to do so.
From experience, I can give you a tip.
Ingested poison. Put it his rations, offer to buy drinks and put it in his. Tell the gm what you're doing, and ask him to keep track of the damage.
If the poisons don't kill him, the lowered stats eventually will hasten his demise in combat. Who you need to keep in on this is the GM, not the player.
IMO there are a lot less drastic character choices you can make before resorting to murder.
1. Don't tell him the whole of your plans, or maybe give him false information to pass to enemies. Misinformation is especially juicy given the vow of truth.
2. Divide the loot "fairly" (you are lawful) and if the monk chooses to spend it foolishly then that is his choice.
3. Just ignoring him seems appropriate when it comes to riddles, just pretend his character is stupid and doesn't know how to talk to people.
4. How is he pissing off friendly NPC's?
5. Why is his character not trying to save the world? Maybe you should point this out to the player.
6. It is hard to know what a reasonable response would be to an insult without knowing the context and content of the insult...
I make these suggestions assuming your character is somewhat reasonable and level headed. Any of these things could easily lead an unreasonable or unstable character to react violently, but doing so could cause strife between the players.
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There is one other lizardfolk character, a former slave drunk, who plays well to the mission at hand, or drink in hand. He, and the, um, sheep players already make a decent crew, and is at least honor bound to one of them to take them along. If I could find more lizardfolk, my character would work well to get them as a crew member. We actually try to keep most plans hidden from our blabbermouth.
don't kill a player character without the players approval.
Yes I've read your first post and several thereafter.
No, I don't know of any reason why there should be an exception.
It might seem like a good solution, but it's no solution at all if the other player isn't on board with it.
Don't do it.
@Op
1. The monk has a vow of poverty, he really can't lay any claim to the loot. Sure he did part of the work and is entitled to a part of it, but his vows should forbid him to lay claim on it. No claim, no deciding where it goes.
"Yeah, about that, I'm not interested in the treasures, it's against my oaths, just give it away to the poor." would be a request with no need to be followed up. Treat the group as one less, and split the treasure accordingly.
2. With the vow of truth, he has the choice to remain silent, he does not have to blab out if asked, he just can't lie, or bend the truth, but he can choose not to speak.
"If presented with circumstances where telling the truth would bring harm to another, the monk remains silent." Telling your plans to the enemies is "harming" you.
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@Op
1. The monk has a vow of poverty, he really can't lay any claim to the loot. Sure he did part of the work and is entitled to a part of it, but his vows should forbid him to lay claim on it. No claim, no deciding where it goes."Yeah, about that, I'm not interested in the treasures, it's against my oaths, just give it away to the poor." would be a request with no need to be followed up. Treat the group as one less, and split the treasure accordingly.
2. With the vow of truth, he has the choice to remain silent, he does not have to blab out if asked, he just can't lie, or bend the truth, but he can choose not to speak.
"If presented with circumstances where telling the truth would bring harm to another, the monk remains silent." Telling your plans to the enemies is "harming" you.
1) No, not his portion, he refuses loot, he just likes to tell us what to do with ours.
2)I mentioned this, his response was "to remain silent, is to conceal the truth".
1. How can he give loot away if he never touches it? From what I understand the VoP does not allow him to hold onto the loot.
2. So I see he is one of those people who reads things the way he wants them to be read. Why are the bad guys believing him? Have you ever thought of feeding him false information? :)
1. Then he definetly has no legal claim or power to tell you how to deal with it. Tell him that he either claims a share and gives it out, or to shut it.
2. Send a message to his order, finding out if the vow allows to spill the truth knowing it will bring harm to his companions.
But, on side note, if he bypasses that, it sounds like intentionall griefing to harm the players. Feed him ingested poison till he croaks, sounds like a douchy player imo.
Alternatively, tell him he is not reliable, and ask him to leave the area where you plan the plan. If he asks what to do, tell him to trust the others and do as they say. You should have plans not including him to do any specific tasks, as he's an unreliable member.
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1. How can he give loot away if he never touches it? From what I understand the VoP does not allow him to hold onto the loot.
2. So I see he is one of those people who reads things the way he wants them to be read. Why are the bad guys believing him? Have you ever thought of feeding him false information? :)
1) He tries, mostly by inviting the random NPCs to it, and talking forever.
2) Yeah, it is like that. I have not tried misinforming him in that way, good idea.In the end, I see murdering him as a likely possibility, but not the only one.
Have you actually talked to him about this yet? I can't recall if you said if you did in another posts.
*checks the OP's profile, notes age*???
Female goblin. Wtf? My mind is forever scarred.
I never checked anyone's profile for their age. I learned something new today.
How old is the "actor"?
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I never checked anyone's profile for their age. I learned something new today.
How old is the "actor"?
That's what I was on to - if that's a "teen high school game" - chill pills all around, take it easy dudes, that's how you learn to resolve conflicts.
If it's a "big boys game" - well... it's a bit more serious.
And in either case, starting the thread with "to murder a fellow player" is a baaaad way to get attention. :)
Now I see. The profile stats are based off my first Pathfinder character. I am actually 31.
That's what all 14 year old goblin say to the police...
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Don't waste your time killing him. Simply leave him. Get the party up early one day and leave him there.
He's a tortle right? I'm tempted to say turn him on his back and leave him :)
LOL
One simple question:
Do you see the problem as an issue with the player or an issue with the character?
If it is an issue with the player then killing the character will not resolve the issue. If it is an issue with the character then killing the character has only a possibility of working.
Either way, I agree with what most people have said: you need to talk with the player about the issue first. Give him the opportunity to see why he is being annoying and to change. Explain that you are not willing to play in a game where another player is having fun at your expense regardless of whether it is "in character" to do so or not. If he does not understand the point and the DM is not willing to make a change that will benefit the party as a whole then it is time to take matters into your own hands.
One option is actually leaving the game remoursefully. It may inspire constructive discussion and make a positive change in the game. If you do this make sure you explain the reasons for your leaving and the means by which you would consider returning to the game table.
The other option is killing the character. The problem is resurrection. I would agree that a quiet killing would be the best kind but perhaps also making sure that his corpse is not bouyant and tossing it overboard would be a good step. If you do this I would make sure that the killing couldn't be traced back to you. However, even if it is reacting to you murdering another character out of character would only serve to prove your point about how in character decisions can affect the enjoyment of the other players. If it isn't affecting his enjoyment then you don't really have to worry about his reaction as he could just make a new character and everyone could move on happily. That is.... assumming the problem isn't the player rather than the character.
You may also want to point out to the player that his character concept isn't very original which is somewhat disappointing for someone in his line of work where creativity and originality is held in such high regard. Might wanna save that one as ammo in case of player backlash though. Allow for a positive reaction first. ;)
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You may also want to point out to the player that his character concept isn't very original which is somewhat disappointing for someone in his line of work where creativity and originality is held in such high regard. Might wanna save that one as ammo in case of player backlash though. Allow for a positive reaction first. ;)
Holy crap, I have never seen that movie. I avoid those eye bleeders, and would have never known. Oh god, I did not think I could hate his character more.
Like I said, I know he can play characters that are not annoying, as I have witnessed. As a person, he can be kind of a douche sometimes, but is still entertaining.
I only read the first post, and my advice is: Kill him!
I have experience in killing, and being killed by other players, and it's good fun usually. Sadly we haven't done this in many many years :-/
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Pay an assassin NPC to kill the player (and the character too ;)).Promise the assassin be paid with the character equipment (vow of poverty? oh, sorry pal, we made a deal, I am LE). Help the assassin if necessary (open the window of his house by night, when the monk is sleeping...etc). Deny any involvement in that tragic event.
Maybe his new character could be an assassin...
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RAGELANCEPOUNCE?
HIRE ASSASSIN. THEN KILL THE ASSASSIN.
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Were you able to pull it off without hurt feelings?
Yeah, we used to have fun with it. Hostile in character. Friendly rivalry out of characters. Sometimes people got angry, but nothing that ever lasted.
Oh except for one occation two ppl had a bit of a more serious falling out. It wasn't directly one player killing the other, more like preventing his resurrection. This was in 3.0 or 3.5 where I believe you could never be brought back to life if you had been turned into an undead.
It's actually a bit funny. We were all fighting as a group, when one player (who tended to make rather underwhelming monks and act recklessly charging in first to battle) fell to an enemy. Another player standing next to him who was an evil cleric said to him (out of character) "why are you just lying there? Get up and fight" Then he animated him as a skeleton, made an attack with his new skeleton, rolled a 20 and critted for much more damage than the monk had been usually doing. Then he told him out of character, "There you're much better like that" We all laughed, and still do :)
Actually, I thought the movie was pretty good. I liked the voice actors quite a bit too, take a look at the cast some time. Even the character design was fairly original.
But it was original in the movie. Making a character after a movie character is not original. But I could see playing a character like that as a tribute to the original. Seems like more of a rip-off in your companion's case.
Prolly deserves death for that.
If he isn't concerned with "all in good fun" why should you be? I wouldn't worry about that. Your intention is to make it more fun for all, whether it turns out that way or not doesn't fall completely within your realm of control. Making the best of a bad situation may involve a character murder but, like I said, I'd try the other options first. Maybe even ask him before hand if he believes you should always act in character even if it is to the detriment of OOC fun before making your move.
I'd make sure the other characters aren't aware. It doesn't matter if the players are or not. In fact it might be better if they are. Just make sure to point out any metagaming if they try to react in character.
Valuable question here: How does your campaign work when a character dies? Do the other character's belongings get "donated" to the group? If so, you might wanna pick up a bag of holding. I anticipate you may have a hard time carrying all the loot your going to be obtaining from possible backlash of his metagaming supporters or predisposed to hate your character replacement characters. ;)
Again... you can win this fight, right? Right?!
Yeah, that's what I'd like to accomplish. The "all in good fun" feel with a story to tell later on. Did you tell the player or GM before you did it?
It was somebody else who did that, but no. Nobody was told before.
On many other occations when we've had what we call "PC wars" the DM knows, or the other players might be aware of plotting against them. Sadly though I don't think we've had any PC wars since pathfinder was launched.
Sounds to me like the player's roleplaying is the issue--he is not a cooperative player--and killing his PC will simply serve to make him defensive. People just won't understand his "brilliance" and things will get worse.
Moreover, passive aggressive actions to deal with a problem player seldom work. And this is a passive aggressive action (even if killing a PC seems "aggressive").
Talk to the player about it.
If the player doesn't listen, talk to the GM. It's the GM's job to make sure everyone's having fun. Talk to the other players too.
THEN if nothing can be resolved, and the player is still part of the group, explain clearly you have every intention of playing YOUR character in character as much as possible--even if to his own character's detriment.
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Nothing has really been set up for character death, yet. As his character's main goal is to reach Nirvana, I could make a good argument to not resurrect his character. I doubt anyone would actually fight me in game, as I am the main damage dealer, we are all low level, and my one biggest supporter is a lizardfolk inquisitor with a +19 intimidate. Besides, without the being convinced otherwise, I could reasonably persuade the others that I did not do it, or that it was accident.
I see what you are saying Steve, but my meaning is that I believe he does not actually care if his character dies. That he only cares that he is in the game, and in the spotlight.
And that's why this won't help. As long as the player gets to remain in the group, his next character will be equally... visible. In fact, by killing his character you're making more drama.
This needs to be handled out-of-game or else it will be continued regardless of the name of the PC. It's a player problem not a character problem. Treat it as such.
Secretly join the bad guys. Then this ninja turtle is effectively on your side. Grin evilly each time he unwittingly helps your side.
Who's the captain of the ship? Can you convince the captain that this character has committed a crime against the crew and should be keel hauled as punishment?
What's your Bluff and everyone else's Sense Motive? Maybe you can just turn on him openly but then declare you were subject to mind control. You are a fighter after all.
I would tell the player that his character is just annoying as all get out. After talking to him, if he didn't make some reasonable changes to no longer be annoying, I would probably go to in game options.
If any one has had experience killing a fellow character, I would love to hear about it.
That happens often that I'd with my friends. Party cohesion is often a problem since the players aren't DnD by nature and "let's make a party" is not always something that interests them and seems contrived, unless they bond and make friendship in-game (or I set it a up a partnership or two). Conflict and betrayal occurs a lot since they think more about their characters and goals. But largely it's cause they're pretty stupid too.
Exalted I ran: One of the PCs was fire Dragon-blooded was a lost egg and hated the empire and all DBs. He was really angsty. Together, he was escaping this prison with another PC who was a air element DB, but he didn't know it. First battle they start doing their magic and it becomes obvious to the Angsty PC what's going on, so he stabbed the other in the back. They have an epic Exalted duel in the call, and the the Angsty Fire guy ends up killing him. I raised the fallen PC as an Abyssal and had him as a antagonist for a while until I engineered his rejection of his dark master so that he could join the party as a kind of dark knight sort of thing. But I digress.
#2 and #3: Friend of mine has a psychopathic girlfriend who he likes to bring to games sometimes. Reminds me of the old Ab3 stories, if anyone knows what I'm talking about. Anyway, twice she's killed (basically in cold blood for little to no reason at all) characters of the guy who played the Angsty Fire DB. Like while his character was unconscious. I try not to play with her anymore. Like ever.
#4, DnD 3.5: This reminds me the most of your dilemma. Same guy who played the Air DB turned Abyssal made a battle sorcerer in this 3.5 game I ran. This character was completely terrible. He wanted to play a "crazed mad mage" essentially, so when he would speak he would cackle and mumble and make a lot of noise and none of it would make any sense and he would talk. for. f***ing. ever. So not only was it disruptive and annoying as hell, but it would only take away from things and never, never add. And it would always last with this loud babbling monologues that never seemed to end. So I'm not entirely proud to say (but you really had to have been there) I offered, in secret, a bounty of 500 XP to the party to the character that murdered him and did it in such a way that it wasn't obvious that it was him. Like, they couldn't just jump the Lv 1 sorcerer with his 6 HP and end him. So the gnome wizard ended up sneaking off and creating an illusion monster and mage handing rocks at the sorcerer's head did he passed out. Then the duelist (who was just kind of a jerk) I think just slit his throat.
I'm sure there are more that I can't remember right now. My friends are pretty dumb and I've been playing a long time. A lot of character death to be sure. Much of it suicide, intentional and unintentional. I'll think on it.
tl;dr My friends are stupid and kill each all the time!
