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MONK - Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus feat....A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.
does this mean the same thing?
CRUSADER - Bonus Feat: A crusader gains a bonus feat at 1st level,..Weapon Focus.. etc.....Bonus feats marked with an asterisk (*) must be applied to the favored weapon of the crusader's deity. A crusader need not meet the normal class- or level-based prerequisites for these bonus feats.
Does that mean I could take Weapon Focus at level 1 cleric if i was a level 1 cleric/crusader? Is it the same just worded differently than the monk version?
Full Text...
Bonus Feat: A crusader gains a bonus feat at 1st level, then again at 5th level and every five levels thereafter (to a maximum of six at 20th level). These bonus feats must be chosen from the following list: Heavy Armor Proficiency, Improved Shield Bash, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Saving Shield, Shield Focus, Tower Shield Proficiency, and Weapon Focus*. At 10th level, a crusader may also choose from the following feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Greater Shield Focus, Greater Weapon Focus*, Improved Critical*, Shield Slam, Shield Specialization, and Weapon Specialization*. At 20th level, a crusader may also choose from the following feats: Greater Shield Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization*. Bonus feats marked with an asterisk (*) must be applied to the favored weapon of the crusader's deity. A crusader need not meet the normal class- or level-based prerequisites for these bonus feats.
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I don't think so, as the requirement is +1 BaB, which the Crusader does not get.
It also doens't mean the same thing, as the Monk version does not specify which requirements are ignored, while the Crusader one does (class- or level-based prerequisites). Technically, BaB IS a level-based prereq, especially as Paizo clarified that in PathFinder Level means "Class Level"), but it is obviously not meant for that, but rather Weapons Speciailization, which Requires Fighter Level 4, and similar things for related Feats.
That being said, is it going to affect anythign realistically? Not at all. Is it perfectly in liine with the Archtype. Absolutely. Is there any other reason not to allow it. Probably not.
Was there ever any clarification about the number of Bonus Feats? I never saw it in the errata, and I remember it being asked once, but never saw.
"gains a bonus feat at 1st level, then again at 5th level and every five levels thereafter (to a maximum of six at 20th level)."
1st = 1
5th = 2
10th = 3
15th = 4
20th = 5
Where is #6, (before 20th)
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A clarification would greatly effect my build and allow me to take Crusaders Flurry at level 3 instead of waiting for level 5
and as for the 6 feats... there is no six if you can only take feats at 1,5,10,15,20, Then its safe to assume its a typo. UNLESS the typo is the level bracket... And I haven't seen any clarification on that yet either.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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From the author of the archetype:
Class and level mean class and level. Does the feat have a prereq that is a class and/or a level? F'rex:
Weapon Specialization, prereq is 4th level (level) fighter (class).
BAB is neither class nor level. It is secondarily derived from class and level, but in and of itself it is neither class nor level.
The rule is written quite specifically and is different from the monk's "no prereqs" rule.
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From the author of the archetype:
Class and level mean class and level. Does the feat have a prereq that is a class and/or a level? F'rex:
Weapon Specialization, prereq is 4th level (level) fighter (class).
BAB is neither class nor level. It is secondarily derived from class and level, but in and of itself it is neither class nor level.
The rule is written quite specifically and is different from the monk's "no prereqs" rule.
I kinda figured thats how it would work, ill just have to change some levels around and get it to work.
Related question - I don't see how the crusaders bonus feats add up to 6 by lvl 20. I count 5.
(Disclaimer - it is late and I am drinking wine!)
By my reckoning I get the bonus feat at lvl 1 (1), lvl 5 (2), lvl 10 (3), lvl 15 (4) & lvl 20 (5). Where is that 6th feat coming from??
Should have read the above posts more thoroughly. I am going to go with the idea that this is simply a typo - and should read 5 instead of 6.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Should have read the above posts more thoroughly. I am going to go with the idea that this is simply a typo - and should read 5 instead of 6.
That's probably right. My guess is that in an earlier version of writing the archetype I had it gain bonus feats every 4 levels, which would end up with 6 bonus feats. I later changed it to every 5 levels but missed changing the "maximum of..." number. That seems like the most likely explanation.
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I'd rule that BAB is both class and level related and therefore allow a Crusader of Sarenrae take Weapon Focus (Scimitar) at level 1...
I think that's the intent of the Archetype afterall - Sacrifice a Domain and suffer diminished Spell casting for superior (for a Cleric) Martial abbility with your Dieties favoured weapon...
The real question here is; Is it worth it?.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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BAB of course is class and level related, but it's not class, and it's not level. It's related to them, but it's not them, just as my son is related to me and his mother, but he's not me or his mother.
You can and should rule any way you like for your game, but as the author of the archetype I can assure you that it was not the intent of the archetype to treat ignore prerequisites that are not class-based (i.e., what class are you?) or level-based (i.e., what level are you in that class). My intention was precisely what was stated, without extrapolation into prerequisites that are derived from or influenced by class and level (such as BAB).
As to the real question of whether it's worth it, that's up to every player and what they want to play. It's an option that does something different from a regular cleric. If that appeals to you, great. If it doesn't, then it's not worth it.