Found this on Listverse today:
Nothing to fight about imo. I respect D&D for it's history, and fond memories of the realms.
I haven't even considered playing it since 4th edition came out though, and I probably never will again. Pathfinder is just that good.
The fact that D&D is still number 1 though, neither surprise nor annoy me. To each his own..
Nothing to fight about imo. I respect D&D for it's history, and fond memories of the realms.
I haven't even considered playing it since 4th edition came out though, and I probably never will again. Pathfinder is just that good.
The fact that D&D is still number 1 though, neither surprise nor annoy me. To each his own..
The list is not in any order except the author's preference. It doesn't mean that D&D is outselling or even outpolling any other RPG. It's just in that spot because the author has a soft spot in his heart for the brand.
Rifts Was the first Rpg I ever played. Fantastic setting, crappy rules :( still we had fun. Honestly are RPGs worth fighting over? Play what you want and leave others alone to do the same... I personally play both Pathfinder and 4e.
The Edition Wars ... Continue.
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The Palladium system rules (of which Rifts is a part) weren't the best, but they weren't the worst either. Shadowrun's rules were horrific (but again with a terrific setting.) I think Call of Cthulhu should be higher on that list though.
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Nothing worth fighting over. It's one guy's opinion based on nothing but limited personal experience.
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I would have gone with Champions instead of M&M but different strokes for different folks.
The Palladium system rules (of which Rifts is a part) weren't the best, but they weren't the worst either. Shadowrun's rules were horrific (but again with a terrific setting.) I think Call of Cthulhu should be higher on that list though.
Here is where the fight is going to start :-) 3rd Ed Shadowrun was an excellent rules set.
Not as good as Rolemaster but almost.
Aw, SNAP! The 8th Dirty Dwarf is throwin' down! It's about to get crazy up in here!
cranewing, I'd recommend some of the setting hardcovers the Savage Worlds people have put out, like the Savage World of Solomon Kane. It's pretty amazing, and definitely chock full of content.
As for the list itself, everyone's going to have their own opinion of what should be on there of course.
I'd say D&D's always going to be #1 on lists like that because none of the rest of them would exist without it (with Pathfinder, Hackmaster, and even Mutants and Masterminds [a d20 game] directly descended from it).
The only embarrassing thing about the list is what Tarlane said--he got his World of Darkness mixed up with his New World of Darkness, and apparently doesn't realize the new World of Darkness exists, even though he listed two nWoD games and printed the cover of 1. (He is right that the metafiction-pocalypse in 2003 did turn a lot of people off, me included, but the fact remains they're still making games, I believe.)
I would have at least put an honorable mention to Champions/HERO System too. I prefer to PLAY Mutants and Masterminds, but Champions was THE superhero game for awhile.
My other mentions would include the FATE System; Big Eyes, Small Mouth; and the L5R RPG.
The Palladium system rules (of which Rifts is a part) weren't the best, but they weren't the worst either. Shadowrun's rules were horrific (but again with a terrific setting.) I think Call of Cthulhu should be higher on that list though.Here is where the fight is going to start :-) 3rd Ed Shadowrun was an excellent rules set.
Not as good as Rolemaster but almost.
No fight here, since I never actually played 3rd edition. Last time I did any extended gaming in Shadowrun it was the first edition. I think I may have played one or two games in 2nd ed. Things were way out of whack. I had an ork physical adept wipe the floor with two trolls using his bare hands while the other four people in the group were still working on the third one...with big guns.
I'd replace Savage Worlds with any edition of Gamma World before it went d20.
I'd replace Savage Worlds with any edition of Gamma World before it went d20.
I liked the modified Alternity rules version the best personally.
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When is the fight supposed to start?When people realize Paranoia "Fifth Edition" isn't on this list.
You are not authorized to mention that Citizen.
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I'd replace Savage Worlds with any edition of Gamma World before it went d20.I liked the modified Alternity rules version the best personally.
Blasphemer!!! It's Metamorphosis Alpha or nothing when it comes to Gamma World!!!! ;p
(Actually the one based off 4th Ed D&D is what I used to entroduce my 7 year old to RPGs, mainly because 4th Ed was a grossly simplified and leveled out system, but it really has been ideal for introducing the basic concepts of an RPG.)
And as for the nWOD - I know several players of the "classic WOD" who refuse to acknowledge its existance, though an older book cover should have been used in the list.
And for all the people touting Shadowrun (both of you) Cyberpuck 2020 belongs on this list ahead of anything FASA produced. What I want to know is, where are Deadlands and Castle Falkenstein, both of which used a standard deck of 52 to great effect, in addition to and in some cases instead of dice. Both were great innovators and both so often get ignored.
Yeah Cyberpunk 2020 being absent from the list is a sad thing for me -- but what they did with cyberpunk 20xx just might justify leaving it off (as far as I'm concerned the last Cyberpunk game book officially produced was Firestorm and the only thing to come out for cyberpunk since there has been from datafortress 2020). I don't mind palladium being #10 -- it was fun but a massive headache.
I'm a bit surprised new WoD didn't get a mention on the list... but I believe that's because the new system wasn't an emo/goth empowering powerfest that the old WoD had become. A lot of the old fans don't appreciate a new system where they can actually fail and die.
I'm a bit surprised new WoD didn't get a mention on the list... but I believe that's because the new system wasn't an emo/goth empowering powerfest that the old WoD had become. A lot of the old fans don't appreciate a new system where they can actually fail and die.
Perhaps, but the nWoD seems to lack "punch." Specifically, it needs a stronger storyline.
For me the lack of a book pushed story line is a good thing. It's a much more local and intimate game.
I guess for me it's much more what I would expect from a "horror genre" system -- close, dark, with lots of questions, but with an 'only human' feel to the characters involved.
It's what I would like to think Call of Cthulhu would feel like.
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I'm a bit surprised new WoD didn't get a mention on the list... but I believe that's because the new system wasn't an emo/goth empowering powerfest that the old WoD had become. A lot of the old fans don't appreciate a new system where they can actually fail and die.Perhaps, but the nWoD seems to lack "punch." Specifically, it needs a stronger storyline.
*shrug*
I rather liked Changeling: The Dreaming, and some of the other old WoD games. I'm one of the players (and GMs, since I ran a long Changeling campaign) who has refused to touch the new WoD, or pretty much anything else White Wolf has done since. For me, I don't care if it's a great game-- the sheer hypocrisy in the way White Wolf did the changeover, the statements made by White Wolf in and around shutting down the old WoD, and then the appearance of a new WoD after all... the inherent contempt that White Wolf seemed to show towards gamers who'd been loyal fans all along-- was more than I was willing to tolerate, no matter how good a new product they were going to put out. That, and really-- by the end of old WoD, I didn't have any faith in White Wolf's quality control or the usefulness of any of their products anyway.
I do agree with your assessment of where old WoD was winding up, by the end of its run... overrun with lots of munchkinizable splat-books, power-tripping, and "let's ram our meta-plot down your collective throats" story-writers... but I never got the sense that any of the characters in the WoD games I played (and certainly not the ones I ran) were invincible or couldn't die. And, failure was definitely a possibility in most of the WoD games I played (though failure didn't always mean "death").
It's just one guys opinion. At least PF is on the list, considering he likes 4E better.
Great games that arguably should have made the list:
- Paranoia
- Rolemaster
- Marvel Super Heroes
- Warhammer RPG (maybe not, but I loved the setting)
Btw, I much prefer the old World of Darkness to the new one.
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And for all the people touting Shadowrun (both of you) Cyberpuck 2020 belongs on this list ahead of anything FASA produced. What I want to know is, where are Deadlands and Castle Falkenstein
Shadowrun was maybe the only blend of sci-fi and fantasy I could stomach. I loved it for that. Cyberpunk 2020 was also awesome, especially when I'd had my fill of shamans.
Deadlands... I can't believe I forgot that one. :/ Doesn't inclusion of Savage Worlds make up for that a bit?
Bah. He is just making a list of how to have BadWrongFun (tm).
The No-SASE Ogres will go mess him up for that. Grrr...
Okay, not feeling the rage here. =)
I'll echo the above. Warhammer would have been a nice addition to the list, if only because of the setting and it's ability to cross platforms with various computer and book products. I would say that regardless of preference it shows a certain importance to the RPG genre.
On a personal note, I loved Warhammer and have GM'd several games in it, but I could never figure out a satisfactory way to implement the career advancement rules in such a way that it blended into character development. I usually just ignored it and treated them kinda like D&D (and now Pathfinder) levels as a game not a world mechanic.
It's just one guys opinion. At least PF is on the list, considering he likes 4E better.
That is not what I got from the list.
What I understood is Dungeons & Dragons got the top spot because of its importance to the birth/survival and success of Table-Top Role Playing Games.
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I think Mayfair's DC Heroes should've been on the list. Most of my best memories from a player's point of view come from the 12 year long campaign we had.
I do agree with your assessment of where old WoD was winding up, by the end of its run... overrun with lots of munchkinizable splat-books, power-tripping, and "let's ram our meta-plot down your collective throats" story-writers... but I never got the sense that any of the characters in the WoD games I played (and certainly not the ones I ran) were invincible or couldn't die. And, failure was definitely a possibility in most of the WoD games I played (though failure didn't always mean "death").
My favorite part of the 'old stuff' would have to have been the hunter system. I think it got closer to where they were when they started with VtM.
That and the Gypsy and hedge magic stuff -- in my opinion some of their best stuff seemed to be more 'knock off' products to them. It was edgy, dark with great character options without driving a meta-plot or overpowering everything.
I do fully agree that the old system could be played without going into a place I wouldn't want to go though.
