Of course the Eidolon can take a fly speed and fly many times faster than it's land speed, all he has to do is not feel like walking. Personally I see this as a lack of an issue, but to be fair I'll look up climbing
nothing says specifically one way or the other, but RAI would definitely say no.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I have been trying to find something in the rules that says you are not allowed to climb at a speed greater than your land speed even if you have a climb speed that is high enough to do so, as it doesn't make much sense for you to be walking along and then hit a wall and suddenly be moving up it three times as fast.
Also as far as I can tell you are allowed to climb across a surface that would normally just be walked on by most as the rules say you can climb across any surface with inclination of 60 degrees or less, and 0 is less than 60.
The combination of these points ultimately becomes that as far as I can tell a summoner's eidolon can take the climb evolution a few times to get its climb speed well above its land speed and then never use its land speed and instead choose to take 10 on its climb checks against the DC of 0 for a slope and hence move at a much greater speed than would be acheivable by taking the legs evolution.
If I could be directed to some rules text that outlaws either of these things that would be great.
The rules don't say you can climb any surface less than 60 degrees. They say you can climb up a slope, which is less than 60 degrees but still too steep to walk up.
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Climb Speed Ability A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC higher than 0, but it can always choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened while climbing. If a creature with a climb speed chooses an accelerated climb (see above), it moves at double its climb speed (or at its land speed, whichever is slower) and makes a single Climb check at a –5 penalty. Such a creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus to their attacks against it. It cannot, however, use the run action while climbing.
Since you cannot accelerated climb faster than your land speed, I would not think it possible to regularly climb faster than your land speed.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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The rules define a slope as "A slope is considered to be any incline at an angle measuring less than 60 degrees". Seeing as 0<60 level ground is according to the rules a slope and hence can be climbed on, and it is true that the DC of 0 is given to a slope that is too steep to walk normally on, so this doesn't quite fit to level ground, but the DC for level ground would if anything be easier, and let's face it, when you are taking 10 and have a racial +8 having a DC of less than 0 is pointless.
What I intend doing is combining the high climb speed and the trample evolution to be moving through enemy squares damaging them and then still being able to have a large distance between myself and the enemy. Just so you can have as much information as possible for raising issues with.
Or...They didn't give level ground a DC because you're not climbing across it?
I get the desire to squeeze advantage out of the rules, but some things should be common sense.
I don't think there is such a rule, but I also think that if someone is going to take evolutions to become a better climber instead of something more useful I will look the other way. I might even help them to come up with fluff for it.
edit:I think Mergy bolded the rules quote that is needed.
lol? still?
@#$% the posts one can find around here . . .
lemme know when you lot find an answer *grabs popcorn* I'll be over here if needed
I agree that it makes sense for climb speed to be capped at land speed, particularly with those rules on accelerated climbing, but I want an actual rules reference to stop me from doing so, otherwise I figure I am allowed to use this little loophole.
Since you cannot accelerated climb faster than your land speed, I would not think it possible to regularly climb faster than your land speed.
This is everything that's currently wrong with society today. Would you also like a rules reference stating that while dead, you cannot cast wizard spells?
I dont see a specific rule against that either. Bad munchkin, bad!
Is there a reason why an Eidolon doesn't take all of its fast walk evolutions first so that when it finally takes the climb evolution it isn't just as fast at walking as climbing?
No, not really. It's just like taking ur ability evolutions before you take the Large (they cost 2 per evo before, 4 per evo after). That said, why would you take climb instead of the far more useful fly?
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As a DM I would rule it the other way: You can't have a climb speed faster than your land speed. It simply does not make sense that a spider-like creature could climb up a vertical surface at, say, 80ft, but not be able to go over a flat surface at 80ft. Either their climb speed is too high or its land speed is too low. Either way, given the same complexity of terrain, having gravity working against you should NOT make it easier to move (though it could make it easier to fly for a lighter-than-air character).
As far as RAW: *shrug*
Tell me, does a sloth move faster when climbing or walking? Does a mermaid swim faster than walking?
Tell me, does a sloth move faster when climbing or walking? Does a mermaid swim faster than walking?
My thoughts exactally! If a creature is built for climbing and less for walking then let it. I don't see an issue here....
Why?
Then just take the one that is greater and roll with it?
Sloths move???
Yes the limbs for climbing could be different to the limbs for walking, but if they aren't (take a spider) then you shouldn't be able to climb faster than you can walk.
What if the same limb was just overall better engineered for climbing as opposed to walking?
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"Why is that summoners snail climbing onto the ceiling of the dungeon?"
"It goes faster up there"
"Huh...?"
*WHOooooooosh*
"Racing snail...."
What if the same limb was just overall better engineered for climbing as opposed to walking?Sloths move???
Yes the limbs for climbing could be different to the limbs for walking, but if they aren't (take a spider) then you shouldn't be able to climb faster than you can walk.
Yes, this. I can easily imagine a creature which is much more efficient at sloped and vertical locomotion than horizontal locomotion.
I see no logical issue with a climb speed higher than a base land speed.
Just think of some type of arboreal creature with long, gangly, bowed, heavily clawed limbs that shuffles along awkwardly on the ground (due to the structure of its limbs and the length of its claws), but can easily clamber up a tree or wall or swing along a ceiling.
EDIT: Heck, just look at chimpanzees. They're a less extreme example that's better built for climbing and swinging than they are for walking (bipedal or quadrupedal, doesn't matter).
Are people suggesting it is in any way logical to climb UP than it is to go straight ahead when any traction their limbs gives them works the same, whether you go up or ahead, with the exception being that going up forces you to fight gravity?
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Are people suggesting it is in any way logical to climb UP than it is to go straight ahead when any traction their limbs gives them works the same, whether you go up or ahead, with the exception being that going up forces you to fight gravity?
Yes! Look at the structure of a sloth's claws/hands. They are much more efficient when their weight is hanging from that than when their weight is pressing down on it. Their wrist bends awkwardly and they simply don't move as well. So of course they move faster climbing than they do walking. It's not about traction, here, it's about the way the body works and force vectors.
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Are people suggesting it is in any way logical to climb UP than it is to go straight ahead when any traction their limbs gives them works the same, whether you go up or ahead, with the exception being that going up forces you to fight gravity?Yes! Look at the structure of a sloth's claws/hands. They are much more efficient when their weight is hanging from that than when their weight is pressing down on it. Their wrist bends awkwardly and they simply don't move as well. So of course they move faster climbing than they do walking. It's not about traction, here, it's about the way the body works and force vectors.
What do you have to say pertaining to my rules question about it?
What do you have to say pertaining to my rules question about it?Are people suggesting it is in any way logical to climb UP than it is to go straight ahead when any traction their limbs gives them works the same, whether you go up or ahead, with the exception being that going up forces you to fight gravity?Yes! Look at the structure of a sloth's claws/hands. They are much more efficient when their weight is hanging from that than when their weight is pressing down on it. Their wrist bends awkwardly and they simply don't move as well. So of course they move faster climbing than they do walking. It's not about traction, here, it's about the way the body works and force vectors.
Absolutely nothing. I'm just saying that there is no logical inconsistency in a climb speed being higher than a base land speed.
Are people suggesting it is in any way logical to climb UP than it is to go straight ahead when any traction their limbs gives them works the same, whether you go up or ahead, with the exception being that going up forces you to fight gravity?Yes! Look at the structure of a sloth's claws/hands. They are much more efficient when their weight is hanging from that than when their weight is pressing down on it. Their wrist bends awkwardly and they simply don't move as well. So of course they move faster climbing than they do walking. It's not about traction, here, it's about the way the body works and force vectors.
Now you have me googling sloths. :)
So for specialized animals the climb is faster, but normally it does not work. I guess the fluff can work that way, but I would not let someone climb on less than a 60 degree incline.