Humans cant ride ponies as they are medium creatures trying to ride a medium creature. Horses are large and meant for riding for people. Children ride ponies as they are small creatures (as well as gnomes and halflings)
The original pony express wanted young people (ideally orphans as it was dangerous work) but was only short lived as trans america telegraph lines made it obsolete.
Nothing in the mounted combat section indicates medium creatures can't ride ponies. It mentions ponies and horses several times, and never takes the time to make any distinction.
However; the pony description does indicate that it is meant as a mount for a small rider. So while I can't find a general size ruling, there ya go.
I might rule that a medium creature could ride a pony, but would suffer the -5 penalty to his ride check for the pony not being well suited to the task.
I think we're looking at a problem of reality and game rules not meshing.
By the game rules, a 5' man who weighs 100 lbs and a 6'6" man who weighs 300 lbs. are both "medium" creatures and neither can ride on the the other guy's shoulders.
Reality says that the little guy can ride on the big guy's shoulders but not vice versa. Likewise, the big guy would crush a pony and be rather heavy for most average horses too but the little guy could ride any horse and most ponies.
My take is that the game rules are an abstraction and your character, whatever their size, purchases an equine that can bear their weight, whatever its size, and you do a little handwaving.
If you really want to have game rule to cover this, you make up some character background called "pony express rider" or "jockey" or whatever which states that the Medium character is small/light enough to ride Medium creatures without the rules being broken, or similarly declare that these are "chunky ponies" or "dwarf-bred ponies" or something that, while Medium, can carry Medium characters as if they were Large horses.
If you look to hard at any rule you can find a way to make it break.
Also more to the point, despite it's name, the Pony Express used full size horses, not ponies. After all, the horse also had TO CARRY THE MAIL in addition to the rider.
The original pony express wanted young people (ideally orphans as it was dangerous work) but was only short lived as trans america telegraph lines made it obsolete.
Yep. And they deliberately ran them to their physical limits providing a fresh horse for the rider so they could continue the run at that speed. Large, strong, fast horses were prized.
I would simply house rule that some ponies, while medium, have a special trait that allows them to carry as if they were one size larger. This is because the ponies we imagine children riding are not necessarily the same pony breeds that would be used in a fantasy world by warriors and dwarves. Many breeds of pony are quite stocky and more capable of carrying a large man and his gear than some horse breeds. This could also apply to some any other creature that can have a tendency for dense structure and sturdiness.
I would also simply allow smaller or lighter medium person to ride a medium creature (like say a smaller elf riding a elk in a Kingmaker or a dwarf druid riding a medium bear).
Although in both cases I might have the creature under a encumbrance penalty even if its strength was high enough not to.
This is covered in the rules.
A pony has a str of 13. That means a "medium load" for ponies is no more than 100 pounds. The top "heavy load" is 150 pounds. They can't carry a rider and gear weighing more than that.
Horses have str of 16. They can carry a rider and equipment of up to 230 pounds, which would be most adventurers.
Heavy horses have a str of 20. They can carry a rider and equipment of up to 400 pounds.
Aha, but indeed, it does say in the Core Rule Book who can ride what:
* A horse is suitable as a mount for a human, dwarf, elf, half-elf, or half-orc.
* A pony is smaller than a horse and is a suitable mount for a gnome or halfling.
* A combat-trained horse can be ridden into combat without danger.
Page 162 under Mounts and Related Gear, it says this under the entry for Horse.
This is just a point where the game kept things simple for the sake of the game.
My family raised Welsh Ponies. I rode them all the time. They were definitely not horses (we had a few horses as well). The last time I rode one I was probably 250 pounds. I would be very surprised if the pony was in its medium load, seeing as how it was perfectly capable of galloping.
Now, if we are talking Shetland Ponies, then that's a different story, and I believe it. The problem is the game world has two classifications: Horse and Pony. But there are dozens of different breeds of pony, several of which are basically just "slightly smaller horses" like the Welsh or PoA.
Basically, you ride what is going to be comfortable for your hips to straddle for 8 hours. If your a 6' tall ranger, you ride a thoroughbred. If your a 5' tall elf, you ride a welsh pony (still a horse by game definition). If your a 3' tall gnome, you ride a Shetland pony.
Back in 2nd edition there was an article in Dragon that had traits for horses, including stat mods for the various breeds. I still use that, updated to 3.5/PF. Maybe that's why this isn't an issue to me.
@Black Bard, believe me, I know that ponies and even donkeys can carry much heavier loads than you would think.
I was just going by what's in the rules. I don't view the horses and ponies in PF as anything but made up creatures. So I try to go by the rules.
Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature's Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small ×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24.
So a pony treats a medium load as 150 pounds and a heavy load as 225 pounds. Still not enough to carry most medium sized adventurers and their gear. Maybe a sorcerer.
Yep. And they deliberately ran them to their physical limits providing a fresh horse for the rider so they could continue the run at that speed. Large, strong, fast horses were prized.Also more to the point, despite it's name, the Pony Express used full size horses, not ponies. After all, the horse also had TO CARRY THE MAIL in addition to the rider.
The original pony express wanted young people (ideally orphans as it was dangerous work) but was only short lived as trans america telegraph lines made it obsolete.
Actually the original horses used by the pony express were only 14.5 hands high(which is a fairly short horse, but a horse all the same), which is about the technical size used to define a pony which is how the pony express got its name even thought the beasts used for the venture were indeed horses. Small horse express didn't have the same ring to it. Your average appaloosa ranges from 14-16 hands high, and you will find pony breeds that are just as tall as an appaloosa, but the appaloosa is a considered a horse and I know from experience it will carry may fat butt and load of hunting gear in the mountains of Colorado without any issue (I would guess around 300lbs between me and my gear).
...and a combat trained war pony has a strengh of 17...
There are plenty of medium creatures, that have the strengh an the physical apearance to carry a medium character.
IMO it makes no common sense to deny it.
Player "I get on the bulky war pony"
Master "no, that is forbidden"my question still is, how to handle it, when combat begins... "you have to dismount" just does not feel right.
This is one of those things your just going to have to make a call as a GM or as a group and say that the pony either is or isn't a suitable mount for said character, and treat it like you would any other mount. I'm not clear why your characters would have to dismount when combat begins, makes no sense to me as long as ride checks are made or the animal is combat trained.