I seem to recall reading something along this line somewhere here in the threads, but cannot find it now. I am running Horror at Dagger Rock for some new to Pathfinder players and have reached the place where it mentions Grimlocks. However, when I look in the Bestiaries for their stats there are none. So I thought I would ask this question, do Morlocks replace Grimlocks?
If this has been answered elsewhere please delete this thread or lock it after posting the link.
There are stats for a grimlock here and since I'm not familiar with the adventure I can't really comment on whether the morlocks swarming and climbing abilities fit flavorwise. They seem resonably close stat wise, so they should be fine to use.
Creative Director
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Morlocks are indeed intended to be the thematic replacement for grimlocks. They still do different things, so you can absolutely use them both in the same game or even in the same encounter and they'll still feel different...
...but for Pathifnder, the morlock is the one we're officially sticking with in the category of "violent degenerate underground dwelling were-once-humans" monster.
If we were to reprint Into the Darklands today, the references to grimlocks would change to morlocks.
Wow I feel stupid for not making that connection before now. >.<
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Thanks for the confirmation, James. I am always amazed at the connection the Paizo staff tries to maintain with their fans.
I would like the first few Pathfinders reprinted and updated to Pathfinder Rules. With the knowledge that the reprints are only because of the update to the Pathfinder rules.
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Creative Director
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Makes me wonder if the grimlocks (originally introduced in... what? The first edition Fiend Folio, around '80?) were just avoiding-the-lawsuit morlocks to begin with. And then there were the meenlocks (3rd edition's Monster Manual 2, around - what - 2002?) Did 'The Time Machine' become public domain shortly before the Bestiary was released?
The Time Machine has been in the public domain for a long, long time. The fact that the morlocks are from the distant future is probably more likely why previous editions of the game chose to avoid actually calling the critters that, and instead called them grimlocks. Just my guess.
Makes me wonder if the grimlocks (originally introduced in... what? The first edition Fiend Folio, around '80?) were just avoiding-the-lawsuit morlocks to begin with. And then there were the meenlocks (3rd edition's Monster Manual 2, around - what - 2002?) Did 'The Time Machine' become public domain shortly before the Bestiary was released?
Meenlocks are actually rather older than 3e--they first appeared in the Fiend Folio. They also owe rather more a debt to Don't Be Afraid of the Dark than they do to H.G. Wells.
Ah, meenlocks. I love those creepy little buggers. Might have to dust them off and Pathfinderize them.
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ME GRIMLOCK CANNOT BE REPLACED! ME GRIMLOCK DESTROY MORLOCKS!
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ME GRIMLOCK CANNOT BE REPLACED! ME GRIMLOCK DESTROY MORLOCKS!
...and now I want to run a Numerian campaign where the wrecked starship is the Autobot Ark.
ME GRIMLOCK CANNOT BE REPLACED! ME GRIMLOCK DESTROY MORLOCKS!...and now I want to run a Numerian campaign where the wrecked starship is the Autobot Ark.
Hanging out with me leads to weird ideas.... mostly because I'm full of weird ideas.
(3141 years of being off-line in stasis later:)
That still beats when they crash landed on earth. The Ark crashed to earth in prehistoric times and. Before being reactivated, they were "at rest" since the time of the dinosaurs.
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But back to the thread topic, I like that Pathfinder just went with morlocks instead of using the grimlocks.
The Time Machine has been in the public domain for a long, long time.The Time Machine is an 1895 work by British author H.G. Wells, who died in 1946. That means it was never in copyright in the US, since the US didn't respect British copyright in 1895, but it is in copyright in the EU for seventy years from his death, or until the end of 2016.
Ah, now that's an interesting conundrum. Since Paizo is not in the EU, but they sell books there, for things like this, what does that mean?
I would assume since no one has pursued it, that nothing will come of it?
Of course, assuming is always a bad proposition.
I suppose one could argue the lack of defense of the name of Morlock in representation from US properties to EU, hence that it has become common enough in terminology to be safe to use, and such legalities could wrap up the case in a sort of time stasis for the time remaining until copyright runs out if needed anyways (as there is a lot of usage of it in the US...X-men for example and other books, novels, and even movies)...
I'm under the impression they all didn't pay royalties for the use, especially those made in the US, and especially as some were made prior to the 1993 agreement in the EU. Hence the continuation of the term despite the new agreed upon Copyright law in the EU at the time. I suppose we could turn to see what happened with the X-men at that time, if they simply continued and never paid fees or if they had been paying fees prior to this and just continued, or if they started paying fees in 1993 or thereabouts.
A bad defense could even argue that it was a differentiated spelling for Morlachs...which could be utilized as another (though probably brief) defensive strategy.
But who knows.
Meenlocks are actually rather older than 3e--they first appeared in the Fiend Folio. They also owe rather more a debt to Don't Be Afraid of the Dark than they do to H.G. Wells.
Oh man, I always assumed that shower scene is where the idea for the 'war razor' came from...
I find Pathfinder's absence of a meenlock-like monster to be kinda curious.
Since grimlocks aren't--I think--listed as WOTC product identity, I figured their absence in Pathfinder was probably meant to tighten focus on the morlocks and from there work that race into the Pathfinder brand. Kinda like PF's (awesome) treatment of cyclopes.
Even if grimlocks / morlocks weren't OGL, "violent degenerate underground dwelling were-once-humans" strikes me as pretty safe trope territory. "Tunnel-dwelling, light-fearing, mind-game-playing, victim-transforming rat-sized tormentors" is, on the other hand, pretty specific; assuming WOTC claims the meenlock as product identity, my guess is that Paizo would be stepping on eggshells if they tried morlocking the meenlock into Pathfinder. It's too specific a monster concept.
The meenlock is, imo, the Norwegian black metal of RPG monsters. And given how PF absolutely kills it when it comes to reimagining or expanding upon the really dark monsters--just look at slate-stalkers, Nemret Noktoria, the Grauls--I'd love to see their take on the little buggers.