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When attached to a light armor, such as a chain shirt or a haramaki, does an armored kilt slow you down?
I can't find a rule saying that getting slowed down is an inherent penalty in ALL medium armors. Without such a rule, and with no mention of a speed penalty under armored kilt, it leads me to believe that a haramaki and armored kilt (for example) is medium armor, but doesn't otherwise slow your speed.
Those rules in general need to be reworded, I think. You could save a lot of paper with a small box stating that the category of your armor affects speed. Also, why can't I just get a mithral armored kilt to offset it?
Doesn't the inherent idea of an armored "Kilt" suggest that it's more mobile than armored leggings? Much in the same reason Romans wore skirts? Without training in medium armor (Weight management!) Sure, you're not going to be using it very well. But I would think that it keeps your movement speed at 30'.
But then again, someone would need to run the numbers. *shrug*
Edit: The tone of this post should be read in a light hearted my opinion tone, not pompous !$%hole... please :)
Run speed is more based on how much weight you are carrying and pretty much nothing else. Now, some of your more agility-based skills might be impaired somewhat, but only because hard armor is inflexible, and even that is something you can overcome. There shouldn't be max dex rules, merely a dex penalty for wearing hard suits.
[bad accent] ye patsies! all real men ken that a true warrior's garb be made of ye kilt, ye warpaint, and ye greatsword! any o' ye that say else ain't naught more than a bunch o' skirt-wearing mammie's boys![/bad accent]
(please note, this post has the sole purpose of comic effect. if you feel offended in any way, shape or form... deal with it.)
The prd quite clearly says that medium armor slows you down. Unless those items explicitly say otherwise, they slow you.
The prd quite clearly says that medium armor slows you down. Unless those items explicitly say otherwise, they slow you.
Would you be so kind as to quote/link the source, please?
I'm on my phone, so no. But it's in the section of the PRD going over what the different columns in the armor table mean.
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Actually the text states to reference the chart. Unfortunately the chart doesn't specifically state that medium armor slows you down -- but all the medium armor listed does. All the heavy armor listed has a specific foot note that states it also slows down your run speed, but it isn't listed as a specific property of heavy armor.
Which is in fact the problem -- nothing lists the movement speeds as being a specific function of the category of the armor. It's simply chart reference.
The piecemeal armor chart really screws with this too since so many of the medium armors are listed as having a move speed of 30 feet.
Actually the text states to reference the chart. Unfortunately the chart doesn't specifically state that medium armor slows you down -- but all the medium armor listed does. All the heavy armor listed has a specific foot note that states it also slows down your run speed, but it isn't listed as a specific property of heavy armor.
Which is in fact the problem -- nothing lists the movement speeds as being a specific function of the category of the armor. It's simply chart reference.
The piecemeal armor chart really screws with this too since so many of the medium armors are listed as having a move speed of 30 feet.
Which also raises another point: some of the pieces are inherently inferior to others, why would anyone take any arm piece beside the Lamellar? Steel, if you can make it of mithral instead, horn if you can't.
Not at all. Nothing states light armor reduces your movement at all, and mithral does state that it treats the armor as one category lighter for all purposes other than proficiency. Ergo movement is not reduced with a mithral breastplate.
When attached to a light armor, such as a chain shirt or a haramaki, does an armored kilt slow you down?
Yes. The core rulebook specifies "Medium or heavy armor slows the wearer down."
The core rulebook also explicitly associates armor category with speed. "... one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other
limitations."
The amount by which Armored Kilt slows down the wearer is not explicitly stated, but it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
This could definitely be made clearer. Flagged for FAQ.
Run speed is more based on how much weight you are carrying and pretty much nothing else.
That's not true. Run speed is explicitly affected by armor category.
Run (×3): Moving three times speed is a running pace for a character in heavy armor (about 7 miles per hour for a human in full plate).
Run (×4): Moving four times speed is a running pace for a character in light, medium, or no armor
Run speed is more based on how much weight you are carrying and pretty much nothing else.That's not true. Run speed is explicitly affected by armor category.
Run (×3): Moving three times speed is a running pace for a character in heavy armor (about 7 miles per hour for a human in full plate).
Run (×4): Moving four times speed is a running pace for a character in light, medium, or no armor
/facepalm... I meant in real life, why do you think I proposed those changes?
Not at all. Nothing states light armor reduces your movement at all, and mithral does state that it treats the armor as one category lighter for all purposes other than proficiency. Ergo movement is not reduced with a mithral breastplate.I don't think you understand. I stated that IF light armor moved up to medium retains the listed speed value for the armor THEN medium armor moved down to light retains the speed value listed for the armor.
I understand that is what you are saying. I am saying you are wrong:
Medium or heavy armor slows the wearer down. The number on Table: Armor and Shields is the character's speed while wearing the armor. Humans, elves, half-elves, and half-orcs have an unencumbered speed of 30 feet. They use the first column. Dwarves, gnomes, and halflings have an unencumbered speed of 20 feet. They use the second column. Remember, however, that a dwarf's land speed remains 20 feet even in medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).
A mithral breastplate counts as light armor for the purposes of movement and other limitations. Medium or heavy armor slows the wearer down -- light armor does not. The mithral breastplate counts as light armor for the purposes of movement, so it doesn't slow you down since only medium and heavy armor do that.
Mithral is worded such that you don't have to reference the chart for a mithral breastplate since it is light armor for the purposes of movement. Light armor isn't listed as slowing you down so your move speed is unaffected.
What about a mithral armored kilt?
The same logic would specifically not be applied in reverse because the rules specifically state otherwise. The only way you could apply logic in the way you want is to ignore the fact the rules already cover the situation. You do not reference the chart for light armor. That is the rules -- mithral specifically states that using it to make a normally medium armor causes that armor to be light for the purposes of movement. Therefore you no longer reference the chart.
I do comprehend -- the problem is the rules already cover the specific instance you are suggesting and do not land where you are going -- it has nothing to do with extending the logic of what he is saying and everything to do with the fact that the current wording of the rules has already managed to shut this case down.
The problem is that medium and heavy armors do reference the chart instead of specifically state how movement is changed by wearing armor of that category. So the chain shirt with an armored kilt is medium armor and thus must reference the chart... however the chart specifically states that a chain shirt has a movement speed of 30.
In all actually if we are going to keep the "reference the chart" line then there needs to be lines on the chart in the medium armor section for each light armor combined with an armored skirt and in the heavy armor section each medium armor combined with an armored skirt.
If instead the chart reference line is removed and it is stated that "medium armor reduces movement by 1/3 of the total movement speed (after all other bonuses and penalties are applied) while heavy armor reduces movement by 1/3 of total movement speed (after all other bonuses and penalties are applied) as well as reducing running speeds to x3 instead of x4."
We wouldn't have this problem at all.
That still doesn't answer my question.
Making the kilt out of mithral won't adjust how it adjusts the armor's category. The kilt regardless of material causes the armor to count as one category heavier. If combined with mithral armor you'll come out net neutral on medium armors.
Unfortunately I don't think this would be the case with light armors, since mithral specifically doesn't do anything for them when it comes to movement. However if you were to say that "Chain Shirt and Armored Kilt" are a single entity and count it as medium armor then you could buy medium armor mithral "chain shirt and armored kilt" to make it light armor. Doing so would cost 3,120gp, not 1,120gp or 2,120gp since you are buying a medium armor that is made of mithral.
Hmmm.... interesting.
Breast Plate + Armored Kilt = Heavy Armor. Heavy Armor + Mithril = Medium Armor.That's how I'd do it.
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My advice remains to just not use armored kilts in the game, honestly. They're too much trouble and kinda silly.
making an armored kilt mithral doesn't affect the fact that you're still wearing more armor than you normally would. A mithral breastplate is light encumbrance, but that plus a mithral armored kilt is medium encumbrance.
And the weirdness caused by armored kilts continues—exhibit #32 why they should go away. :-)
If an armored kilt increases the armor's effective type from light to medium or from medium to heavy, you need proficiency in the final result in order to effectively use the armor.