Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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Look for the Ruby Phoenix logo in the upper lefthand corner of a scenario's cover to see if it plays into the season's metaplot.
Planning ahead for two conventions in April, are any of the unreleased tied into the meta-plot? My goal is to offer a Ruby Phoenix scenario in each slot, culminating into Sunday with the Ruby Phoenix module.
Director of Brand Strategy
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All metaplot scenarios from last month (December) to the end of the season assume the events of the Ruby Phoenix Tournament have already taken place. You are best served running that before any of the scenarios that take place
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Really? Then why are we still trying to get this stupid hair braid activated? ;) (Quest for perfection 2 came out December. part 3 comes out tomorrow)
That arc started before December so that's why it's an exception.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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It will be sanctioned for play when the 4.1 Guide is released.
So, did you continue to allow leveled up copies of PC's, or are you assuming then that what, 5% of the PFS players will ever play the module that is the focus of this season?
I gotta say if not, this pisses me off. All season I've been looking forward to playing/running the module that is the focus of the season. The highest character of our lowest player is 3rd. Which means MAYBE sometime next year, should all PCs survive, we might get a chance to play the module, but of course by then it won't be in the season. Which also means it'll make no sense for us to play ANY of the remaining metaplot scenarios, IF we can't play-up for the mod.
/nerd rage
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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It will be sanctioned for play when the 4.1 Guide is released.So, did you continue to allow leveled up copies of PC's, or are you assuming then that what, 5% of the PFS players will ever play the module that is the focus of this season?
This is a pretty good point.
A lot of the players in my area are looking forward to playing this module and seeing where this season's story is going. If, all of a sudden, they cannot participate due to having characters that are not the correct level, that will be pretty disappointing.
And I say this as someone who supports the idea of making modules available only to level-appropriate PCs (and all the subsequent rules).
Perhaps this could be the last hurrah of the old rules? Or it could be grandfathered in until the end of the season?
Of course, this is a moot discussion if you don't institute the new rules...
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The Ruby Phoenix tournament is a story about a world-wide competition for best combattant. The Decembrivate sends agents out, scouring the world for obscure pieces of loot that can give their chosen champions an edge.
(At this, the Shadow Lodge members who'd been trying to sieze power last year, who'd been making the argument all along that the Society ought to actually use its treasure trove, are probably pointing their fingers and saying, 'Exactly!')
Will the Society's champion be a player character? That's a hope, but there are hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of pathfinders, and the competition to be the Society's representative is hot. So we each go on missions, and learn, and increase our strengths, so that the Decembrivate might select us.
So, it seems keenly inappropriate for us to just *pop* jump to 11th Level and enter the tournament, and then *pop* drop back to our regular tier. Unless the Society has discovered some sort of really cool Super-heroism Vita-Ray procedure that turns everybody into their 11th-level powerhouse versions of themselves.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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The same way that even when our group gets high enough level to play a shadow lodge scenario from last season, we probably won't, since the season is over. We'd go with something current or that didn't have to do with the metaplot. At least as one of the DM's, I'd look for other options over them and would only select them as a last resort. That's one drawback of doing the metaplots I think. Especially with the big change the beginning of this season. The cool shadow lodge plot doesn't make much sense anymore now that we're past it.
Currently there is a desire to play the tourney since its the focus of this season. In a year or two when we have high enough chars to play it, there will be no desire to play it anymore.
Similar to a con I'm going to next month. We were hoping to run Blood Under Absalom, but we didn't get enough gm's signed up on warhorn, so the organizer decided to go with last year's special. I'm not nearly as excited about it now. I agreed to run it should they need me to, but I really could care less about it. I'm sure it will be enjoyable, but I really think I'd get much more out of the current special than I would using last season's.
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I'm curious how this is that much different than a Tier 7-11 Scenario being released that is integral to the plot of the current Season (See: The Mantis' Prey)?3 Levels
In the situation above, the poster mentioned that none of the players were higher than 3rd level. They wouldn't be able to play in a 10th level Module or a Tier 7-11 Pathfinder Society Scenario.
@Eric: Would you suggest there not be meta-plots then? I can't think of any way to do a plot without either completely losing verisimilitude (allowing any character to be any level) or having verisimilitude and having obstacles of different levels / challenges.
With an organization as large as the Pathfinders in the world, many characters will be doing many things. Higher level ones will be playing the tournament, while lower level ones gather braided artifacts. It's just the nature of how plot with a large organization works.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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@Kyle: Not at all, I'm just pointing out my opinion about meta-plot scenarios that if I can't play it during the season, I probably won't play them. Though, if I really wanted, all I'd have to do is play a Pregen. Unlike some on these boards, I actually like the pregens and the only scenarios you couldn't play one in is the retirement ones.
With the changes to using pregens that Mike mentioned a while back it will be possible to play in the metaplot scenarios you aren't at level for, and apply them to your char once you get that high. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily make sense since you could play a pre-tourney scenario with but it not apply until long after the tourney was over, but it still allows for the Player to experience it in the time it was meant to be experienced. To me that's more important than for the Character to experience it in the time it was meant to happen. (if that makes any sense).
But with Modules like this one, that are a focus to the season (which I would suggest might not be the best thing to do in the future, or at least not one so high) with the suggested changes to how mods are played, there's no way to survive with the current pregens if it were even legal to play them in the mod.
(Also, I was the one who talked about the 3rd lvl chars. You misunderstood, and it was bad wording. Our highest lvl char in the group is 7th with a couple of 6ths and a 5th. Our newest 2 players only have 3rd lvl chars for their highest.)
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I'm curious how this is that much different than a Tier 7-11 Scenario being released that is integral to the plot of the current Season (See: The Mantis' Prey)?
Practically? Nothing.
In terms of marketing, however, the difference is pretty extraordinary. In Season 2, there was nothing to point out and say, "This is the goal." PFS players simply played, and discovered the plot as they could. And it worked out very well.
With Year of the Ruby Phoenix, this module was pointed out specifically in the marketing for the season. It has attracted a lot of attention, and a lot of players are focusing on what the result will be.
That focus is a very different feel that Year of the Shadow Lodge. Ruby Phoenix is a very overt goal, Shadow Lodge was meant to be a covert war.
I, specifically, have used that module as the focal point for much of my marketing. I have been able to gain a bunch of new players by saying that this module is the goal. We've set up a specific day where we will be running multiple tables of that module all day long, and the goal was to get everyone there to get the Season 3 experience wrapped up and see what all the fuss was about. If I now have to say, "Sorry, you can only participate if you have 10th or 11th level characters," then that will be a big disappointment.
Obviously, I'll deal with it. But the marketing up until now did nothing to prepare people for that. That's bad marketing, and is my only point.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Unless the Society has discovered some sort of really cool Super-heroism Vita-Ray procedure that turns everybody into their 11th-level powerhouse versions of themselves.Isn't that why we've been gathering all this crap for them? :)
And, by the way, this is an excellent way to explain the flavor of how the current module rules work. Very well put, Eric.
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I, specifically, have used that module as the focal point for much of my marketing. I have been able to gain a bunch of new players by saying that this module is the goal. We've set up a specific day where we will be running multiple tables of that module all day long, and the goal was to get everyone there to get the Season 3 experience wrapped up and see what all the fuss was about. If I now have to say, "Sorry, you can only participate if you have 10th or 11th level characters," then that will be a big disappointment.
I can understand this argument, and I perfectly understand the disappointment from that standpoint. We have a very similar situation with some players here in Georgia, however they've used their focus to make sure to get their characters to level 10 or 11 and then stay there. Even before knowing the new module rules they wanted that as their "Penultimate Scenario" before Eyes of the Ten. It just so happens that the new rules worked favorably for them.
On a side note, I was curious why the "focal point" of the season was the Ruby Phoenix Tournament, when that was to come out in the middle of the season. If you've read some of the recent month's scenarios (mentioned above) which chronologically happen after the tournament, you'll realize that the Tournament may not actually be the focus of the season after all... Just a stepping stone.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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On a side note, I was curious why the "focal point" of the season was the Ruby Phoenix Tournament, when that was to come out in the middle of the season.
If we tie a Module (or any other print product) directly to a Pathfinder Society season in the future, we'll likely do it as the season opener or conclusion. That's one of the many things we've learned in this grand experiment.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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We have a very similar situation with some players here in Georgia, however they've used their focus to make sure to get their characters to level 10 or 11 and then stay there. Even before knowing the new module rules they wanted that as their "Penultimate Scenario" before Eyes of the Ten. It just so happens that the new rules worked favorably for them.
I've run almost 200 tables at my store in the last year. I can only do this by keeping my offering varied and encouraging people to have multiple characters at multiple tiers. I understand and support the idea of pursuing a story, but in order to maintain a large scale group of players it is impractical to be that linear.
I do plan on revisiting the Year of the Shadow Lodge for a group of fresh PFS players, however, and may do the same thing for The Ruby Phoenix next year. I'll have to see how the story plays out (and how my Shadow War campaign goes).
On a side note, I was curious why the "focal point" of the season was the Ruby Phoenix Tournament, when that was to come out in the middle of the season.
Personally, I think this was an awesome idea. Hard to pull off from a story standpoint, I'm sure, so I can appreciate the "lesson" Mark has learned. But from a marketing standpoint, it was brilliant. I have garnered a lot of new players and generated a lot of excitement by having this to point at. That's why I'd be sad to deny everyone the chance to play it.
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It will be sanctioned for play when the 4.1 Guide is released.I would also like to know when 4.1 is coming out? Cause if I'm stuck waiting till August, I'm just going to cancel my upcoming order for the module, cause it makes no sense to me to hold onto something I can't play for seven months.
It will be much sooner than August.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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It will be sanctioned for play when the 4.1 Guide is released.So, did you continue to allow leveled up copies of PC's, or are you assuming then that what, 5% of the PFS players will ever play the module that is the focus of this season?
Yeah, the Ruby Phoenix tie in is odd to me. It's a 'reward' which caters to only the most active players in the larger gaming communities.
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There is an advantage that I personally really, really like for playing a scenario or module 6+ months after it comes out (like me). All the feedback it generates in that time. I don't feel left out, and often feel when my players who mostly don't follow paizo's every move like me, that they've gotten a better experience then those brave souls who go plunging first through a scenario.
So, my bottom line conclusion. The production schedule and the order they put stuff out has little effect on Kalamazoo. We have a 6+ month delay in when we run things anyways due to our own schedules, and the fact we formed late in the game.
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It will be much sooner than August.It will be sanctioned for play when the 4.1 Guide is released.I would also like to know when 4.1 is coming out? Cause if I'm stuck waiting till August, I'm just going to cancel my upcoming order for the module, cause it makes no sense to me to hold onto something I can't play for seven months.
I'm pissed to find out it's gonna be a while before we play as a PFS mod.
I got the Module subscription just for this reason. Just got my Phoenix Tourney mod today too. aargh!
In the future if your going to organize the season metaplot with both scenarios and mods try and get them to line up to the release dates.
I know its hard, you guys are overworked, authors dont get the scenarios on time, editing is behind, yada, yada,yada.
But we're Nerds so we're gonna complain anyway!
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I'm pissed to find out it's gonna be a while before we play as a PFS mod.
I got the Module subscription just for this reason. Just got my Phoenix Tourney mod today too. aargh!
In the future if your going to organize the season metaplot with both scenarios and mods try and get them to line up to the release dates.
I know its hard, you guys are overworked, authors dont get the scenarios on time, editing is behind, yada, yada,yada.
But we're Nerds so we're gonna complain anyway!
No reason to be pissed. I never said it was going to be awhile. It will be available sooner rather than later. I just am not going to provide an exact date. If for some reason, we were a couple of days past the exact date given, people would become upset because we miss a "promised" deadline. All I ask is for people to have patience.
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It will be much sooner than August.So any time between Tomorrow and July 31st...;) I am hoping before April.
April would be the preferred time for me, since Advanced Races will be coming out, and we will all want to know if we can play something new besides the core races. Doubt it, but we shall see. :)
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April would be the preferred time for me, since Advanced Races will be coming out, and we will all want to know if we can play something new besides the core races. Doubt it, but we shall see. :)It will be much sooner than August.So any time between Tomorrow and July 31st...;) I am hoping before April.
Advanced Races is almost certainly going to be in Additional Resources, NOT the PFSOP Guide.
For it to be cited primarily in the Guide would require it being made another one of the Core assumptions, and I really see that as being an unlikely event.
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No reason to be pissed. I never said it was going to be awhile. It will be available sooner rather than later. I just am not going to provide an exact date. If for some reason, we were a couple of days past the exact date given, people would become upset because we miss a "promised" deadline. All I ask is for people to have patience.
Mike,
No worries man. We're just venting as we always do. I know your're working on it and if doesnt come out on time...well it doesnt and life will go on brother.
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Greetings. I am member and Co-GM of Eric's PFS group upthread. I think the main issue here is this... Linking the season's metaplot to a specific module is a great idea. It gives a more in depth feel to the metaplot and enriches the experience overall. The blunder comes in at having the module set at such a high level and then changing the module play rules causing the module to only be valid to play for a very small subset of the organized play community.
We have all been very excited to play this module, it's marketing campaign has been very successful. With the new changes to module play, many of us are coming to the realization that we will not qualify for this module till next year or later.
I would like to make a case for a one month period of amnesty to play this module. Don't disappoint hordes of fans that may have started play in Season 2, jumped headlong into Season 3 with their eyes on this module. Sanction it, allow it to be played by the old module rules for one month, then release the new guide to play reserving the mod for 10th and 11th lvl characters only. Doesn't that go a long way to making _everyone_ happy?
I understand it's different for gamers who live in larger communities and can dependably run multiple tables and multiple tiers every week, but as a single table gamer I have to wait another 18 weeks every time someone new joins us before I can ever hope to advance my lvl 7. Module play, by the old rules, allowed a refreshing change up now and then from level 1-5 play.
My $0.02
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It's kinda like getting a class of six-year-old kids in a theme park, with posters of the mega-coaster everywhere. These kids are going crazy for the mega-coaster. They are jumping up and down, racing to the star attraction to have the ride of their life. When they reach the mega-coaster they are greeted by a sign:
'You must be 12 years old to ride the mega-coaster.'
The kids are then escorted to a dark room where the video 'The making of the mega-coaster' is playing.
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In my very humble view:
-Ruby Phoenix Tournament module should have been 5-9.
-Wonders of the Weave scenarios should have been released next season, after people have the chance to actually run the tournament. Otherwise more information should have been provided about the mods needing to be played POST Ruby Phoenix Tournament.
-If Paizo knew that the Tournament mod was going to be lvl 11 only, they should have altered Blood Under Absalom so that it doesn't give the impression that everyone who completes the special event can go on to play the Ruby Phoenix. Right now it definitely gets everyone psyched to compete/play this high level module/advertises the mega-coaster.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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In my very humble view:
-Ruby Phoenix Tournament module should have been 5-9.
-Wonders of the Weave scenarios should have been released next season, after people have the chance to actually run the tournament. Otherwise more information should have been provided about the mods needing to be played POST Ruby Phoenix Tournament.
-If Paizo knew that the Tournament mod was going to be lvl 11 only, they should have altered Blood Under Absalom so that it doesn't give the impression that everyone who completes the special event can go on to play the Ruby Phoenix. Right now it definitely gets everyone psyched to compete/play this high level module/advertises the mega-coaster.
All very valid points and ones that will probably be remembered if they do this again. Please keep in mind this was a learning experience for Paizo and Organized Play. The next time I'm sure will be better thought out and prepared!