Ideas for Sanity


Homebrew and House Rules


I dislike CoC sanity rules. They're essentially mental hit points, which doesn't really evoke what sanity actually is. There's no tension, no build up. Players can develop a pretty good idea beforehand if a situation is dangerous or not once they become experienced with the system.

I want to hear ideas about how to add a Sanity mechanic that builds up a little fear for the player, not just the character, but the player too. I also want a "way out", but it doesn't save the character, it just allows them to accomplish one more act before something really bad happens to them. Essentially, the player can choose to purposely fail the next check to gain some sort of advantage for their allies.

Borrowing a physical concept from my favorite horror game, Dread, my first thought is each player builds a dice stack in front of them, from a communal lot of dice (preferably uniform in size). Every time something happens that requires a sanity check, they add a die to their dice stack. If their dice stack ever topples over, the character "has an episode", from a list of bad things prepared by the GM, appropriate for that game. Once that scene ends, they start a new dice stack, but they must start with 1 more die than last time. If a stack falls over while building the initial stack, the character becomes catatonic for the session and he gets to help the GM plot evilness for the other players.

A player can purposely knock over the stack to save his companions from having to make a sanity check.

The downside of this method is the physicality of it. It requires a stable table, probably a cube of spare d6's and space to have the stacks while also being able to still play.

Anyone else have some creative ideas for adding sanity/horror to PFRPG?

Shadow Lodge

I no longer remember the exact rules, but 2e Ravenloft had insanities due to being exposed to the horrors of the realm, and the game Vampire had insanities as key to the Malkavian clan of possible player characters. L5R had "Taint" rules for exposure to the Shadowlands, and Rifts had various rules for their "Crazies/MoMs" and others who may acquire insanity.

Maybe something in one of those could help...

Dark Archive

The Gamemastery Guide has rules for Sanity(Including Rules for Multiple Personalities). They're good. I'd check them out.


Kobold Quarterly has some Sanity mechanics online as well.

A Broken Mind - Sanity and Mental Disorders - Part 1.

A Broken Mind - Sanity and Mental Disorders - Part 2.

Grand Lodge

Irontruth wrote:


Borrowing a physical concept from my favorite horror game, Dread, my first thought is each player builds a dice stack in front of them, from a communal lot of dice (preferably uniform in size). Every time something happens that requires a sanity check, they add a die to their dice stack. If their dice stack ever topples over, the character "has an episode", from a list of bad things prepared by the GM, appropriate for that game. Once that scene ends, they start a new dice stack, but they must start with 1 more die than last time. If a stack falls over while building the initial stack, the character becomes catatonic for the session and he gets to help the GM plot evilness for the other players.

A player can purposely knock over the stack to save his companions from having to make a sanity check.

I like this - mental Jenga.

Heres something I use. One of the other posters made this up on the Carrion Crown threads and I've taken it and made it a bit more suitable to my own needs. It uses the standard mechanics available in pathfinder with the core CoC mechanic. Its not what you are after but maybe bits of it will spark something for you.

Spoiler:

Starting Stability
All characters have a stability score of 10 + Will Save + level (minimum 10).

The mental stability of Characters and NPCs can be impacted by extremes of violence or unnatural experiences.

As a PC loses stability points he becomes more and more unhinged and his behavior becomes increasingly erratic. When he first lose stability he will often act nervous, maybe joke a bit about it or start talking rapidly. Some may gasp and swoon, hold their mouths or cover their faces in disgust or shock. Praying or cursing is a common reaction to seeing horrors. Some react with determined anger or silent contemplation.

Someone with low stability will usually act in an odd and even illogical way. Some become distant and difficult to communicate with effectively. Others might obsess over things, usually whatever caused their stability to falter. Some become almost suicidal and hysterical. More unscrupulous characters might turn psychotic, sacrificing the safety of others to serve their own needs.

A shaken character will often physically tremble, his eyes move from side to side in a frantic motion. He may be short of breath and when he speaks he will often stutter or jumble up words. A frightened character may become pale white. He may burst out in tears or bouts of hysterical laughter or screaming. His speech will often be completely incomprehensible. A panicked character will often scream at the top of his lunges. His hair might turn white. He may flail about uncontrollably screaming and crying and gibbering nonsense. If cornered he will usually fall down in a fetal position rocking back and forth while mumbling.

It is important to note that, unlike Call of Cthulhu, Insanity or a lack of Stability does not mean that your character must be retired… it just makes it very likely they will be killed or incarcerated at some point in the future.

The GM may waive Stability rolls based on character experience or background.

Stability and sanity
All characters have a stability score of 10 + Will Save + level (minimum 10). NPC classes do NOT add level.

Each time a character is subject to anything that might result in stability loss he must make a will save or lose stability.

Martial characters have more resistance to physical perils and the DC to resist and stability loss from such effects are treated as one step lower meaning that they can ignore seeing a mundane dead body, blood etc. Likewise characters with magical ability and experience treat supernatural threats as one step lower. There may be some characters who are able to deal with both dangers. This is determined at 1st level by their initial bonus as being to Fort, Will or both.

For instance a Fighter is more resistant to gore and violence, a Wizard more resistant to supernatural events such as hauntings and a Paladin or Monk, having +2 in both Fort and Will saves, is resistant to both… the exception is the Rogue who is resistant as if they were a Fighter.

The save to prevent stability loss is treated as a mind-affecting, fear ability for the purposes of bonuses and penalties to the Will save. Creatures immune to fear or mind-effecting effects gain a +5 bonus to saves against stability loss and reduces the amount lost by half (minimum 1). Class features, feats or traits that increase saves against fear are used in the saving throw.

When you have less than 10 stability left, you are treated as shaken for the encounter, when you have less than 5 you are frightened with the source of your stability loss as the source of the effect. If you have 0 or less stability remaining you are panicked. Penalties to saving throws, attack rolls etc for the condition also apply

If you are immune to fear or mind-effecting effects you are instead fatigued, then exhausted then staggered. These conditions last until you can regain enough stability to recover. Mindless creatures like vermin are immune to stability loss as are creatures immune to ability damage.
The ‘bravery’ fighter class ability reduces any amount of lost stability by the listed bonus to fear saves.

Stability returns at the same rate as nonlethal damage is healed – 1 per level/hour assuming that the character is in peaceful or calm surroundings. Generally a good nights sleep can do wonders.

Events are broken into the following categories.

Disturbing
A mundane shock like being surprised by a dead body or experiencing something frightening like being threatened with violence or experiencing something bizarre such as hearing ghostly voices. These disturbing but not necessarily dangerous experiences have a DC of 10 and a stability loss of 1d3. Seeing single or small groups of strange Humanoid Monsters etc may qualify for this category.

Shocking
A more terrifying visage like that of a mutilated corpse, witnessing a scary supernatural event, or being in physical or mental peril has a DC of 15 and a stability loss of 1d4. This is the usual check for normal combat or being subjected to harmful magic. Large numbers of humanoid monsters etc, individual or small groups of corporeal undead, supernatural, hideous or large monsters may qualify for this category.

Horrific
A horrific experience like being in mortal peril, witnessing something horrifying like themselves or others being subjected to torture has a DC of 20 and a stability loss of 1d6. This can be also being subject to a supernatural assault or hostile magical control including magical fear. You must usually make this check if you are reduced below 0 hit points, see the most competent of your party die or such things. Large numbers of large, undead, supernatural or hideous monsters as well as a huge or a larger monster, or aberration may qualify for this category.

Terrifying
A truly terrifying event like being subjected to one of your greatest fears, being forced to kill or torture a loved one, being brought back from the dead or witnessing a terrible supernatural evil has a DC of 25 and a stability loss of 1d10. If you are the lone survivor and must face the horror alone this is the sort of check you must make. DMs may have certain monsters such as demons and so on fall into this category. A save will still result in D3 stability loss.

Mind shattering
The most terrifying experiences like being buried alive or possessed by a malign evil or witnessing cosmic horrors has a DC of 30 or higher and a stability loss of 2d8 or more. A save will still result in D6 stability loss.

When someone reaches 0 stability they need to make a check against the DC of the event that pushed them over the edge. If failed, the victim will generally develop a fear, a phobia, related to the thing or event that pushed them to breaking point. The GM may choose to make it the thing that generated the largest stability loss if the shocks come close together. The experience also lessens their permanent stability by 1. Further stability loss is taken as wisdom damage instead. If you reach 0 wisdom from this loss you must make a new will save at the same DC that lead to the stability loss. If you fail you don’t go unconscious but instead suffers an insanity as mentioned in the GM guide. If you succeed you immediately faint into a comatose state and won’t wake up until your wisdom score is increased to one or higher. A 0 Wisdom its considered that your mind or psyche has been ‘broken’.

Snapping out of it:
A character who gains an adverse condition by losing stability may use a full-round action to snap out of it and recover. This save is made at the original save for the first attempt and can be attempted with +5 DC for each additional attempt. All penalties associated with the condition is also present. A frightened or panicked character can only attempt this save when the threat that caused the condition is out of sight. A staggered character must spend two full rounds to snap out of it. A character who snaps out of it doesn’t regain any lost stability but may ignore the adverse effects of his lost stability until he loses more. Other players may use Bluff, Diplomacy or Intimidate Checks at DC15 to provide a +2 bonus in the characters attempt to snap out of it.

Fainting or temporary insanity
Each time you fail a save against stability loss by 5 or more and lose more than 50% of your current stability as a result, you faint and become unconscious for 1d4 minutes or until you are healed of any amount of stability damage. A character can also be brought back from unconsciousness by using smelling salts, strong liquors etc (a full round action) or a heal skill check DC 10 as a standard action. Any amount of damage (or some rough physical handling as a full-round action) will also immediately awaken an unconscious character. Alternatively, instead of fainting, the character can be affected by a temporary phobia or insanity until healed (such can not be from natural recovery of stability) of any amount of stability damage.

On the DM’s discretion certain characters may be more or less resistant to certain maladies as fitting for their background, alignments and vocations. For example: a good creature forced to harm an innocent would have a higher difficulty than an evil one, and a fighter would probably not falter if someone threatened him with physical violence. Likewise characters may treat certain specific turmoil’s as more potent if they have a personal fear or aversion to the triggering event.

Regaining lost stability:
Stability returns at the same rate as nonlethal damage, but only in peaceful and calm surroundings. Spells that calm emotions and heal ability damage may heal some or all lost stability.

Remove fear can also restore 1d6 points of lost stability and remove the effects of stability loss if so chosen.
A lesser restoration spell restores 1d4+caster level of lost stability.
A calm emotions spell removes the effects of reduced stability and fear for the duration of the spell. This may give a player a chance to regain stability in circumstances that are less than peaceful.
A restoration, greater restoration or heal spell restores all lost stability.

You also can gain permanent stability when successfully banishing or defeating supernatural or magical terrors – for each major accomplishment in a horror Campaign the Characters may be awarded with a permanent stability point (in an adventure path this is usually when an installment is finished). Likewise if a Character achieves a personal goal he may be awarded a permanent stability point.

Phobias and personal fears:
If a character hits 0 stability they may develop phobias and fears against the horrors that pushed the person over the edge. Any stability checks against horrors related to his phobias and fears are treated as one step worse. Even encountering the mundane things invoking his fears requires a check (usually at the lowest DC). The phobia must be something that will be relevant to the game and may actually cause trouble. He may choose the same phobia more than once in which case the severity of the check increase by one degree for each time it is chosen. A compulsion could also be chosen in place of a phobia, if the GM feels it is appropriate.

Permanent stability loss:
Each time a character’s stability drops to 0 or lower, a point is permanently lost. If a characters sanity is broken (dropping to 0 Wisdom) that character loses 1d3+1 permanent points of stability. If a pc dies and is brought back he loses 1d4 points of stability permanently. Only a restoration spell or more powerful magic can restore permanently lost stability points.

Curing Insanity
All insanities have a DC that represents the insanity’s strength. An insanity’s DC indicates the Will save you need to roll in order to resist contracting the insanity when you are initially exposed to it, but also the DC you need to make to recover. Recovering from an insanity naturally is a lengthy process — once per week, you make a Will save against the insanity’s current DC. If you succeed on this save, the insanity’s DC is reduced by a number of points equal to your Charisma bonus (minimum of 1). You continue to suffer the full effects of the insanity until its DC is reduced to 0, at which point you are cured and the insanity vanishes completely.

Lesser restoration has no effect on insanity, but restoration reduces the current DC of one insanity currently affecting a target by an amount equal to the caster’s level. Greater restoration, heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish immediately cures a target of all insanity.

Someone with Skill Focus: Healing can provide an Aid Another bonus of +2 to the victims save if they can succeed in a skill check against the same DC.

Some optional modifiers and ideas for this system.

Strength in numbers:
In combat situations, outnumbering your foe grants a +2 circumstance bonus to will saves to avoid stability loss from being in physical danger.

Fighting for a cause:
If a loved one or a personal ideal is at stake you may gain a +2 circumstance bonus on your will save to resist the horror.

Being able to exploit a weakness of the horror:
If you knowingly possess something that the threat has a vulnerability to then the confidence can provide you a +2 circumstance bonus on your will save to resist the horror.

Getting used to awfulness:
Each time you are subject to stability loss from the same kind of effect or turmoil the GM may rule you gain a cumulative +1 circumstance bonus on your save and/or any stability loss is reduced by 1 to a maximum of +5 to the save and -5 stability loss. The DM may rule that there are certain events you may never get used to.

Frightful presence:
Creatures with frightful presence incur a stability loss at a degree one worse than normal in addition to their normal effects.

Insane insights:
When a pc has suffered wisdom damage due to stability loss he gains an insight bonus to all knowledge checks that involve the nature of the event that triggered the loss equal to half the total number of points lost. He may make the appropriate Knowledge check as an immediate reaction, gaining some insight into the threat if they succeed.


I'd recommend checking out Unknown Armies's Madness Meter rules. They've been widely praised as a way better way to handle sanity in RPGs than "brain hitpoints".

Short form: There's several 'meters' for the different ways you can have mental trauma occur, such as Violence, Isolation, and The Unnatural. These traumas have ratings from 1 (trivial) to 10 (OH GOD NO). Every time you're in a situation where one of these is an issue, you have to make a Spirit (will stat) check. If you fail, you get a 'failed' notch on that specific meter - your character is more likely to freak out when confronted with that sort of situation. If you PASS the check, you get a 'hardened' notch - you get to ignore that sort of trauma if its rating is less than the number of hardened notches you have on that track.

Hardened notches make your character a lot tougher mentally, but they're not a totally good thing - if your character gets 10 hardened notches on two different tracks, they've become so detached mentally that they lose access to some of the important abilities more-sane characters can use.

It's worth checking out.

Grand Lodge

Sounds pretty good actually.


My biggest issue is that sanity isn't an optional thing in CoC, you can't play someone who simply doesn't give a crap about the weirdness going on around them. Someone so jaded, who reads about lots of weird stuff, that they hardly raise an eyebrow when something horrible creeps out of the dark.

My next biggest issue is that there are rules that suggest creepy ordinary sounds can quickly drive a person mad.


Sethvir wrote:

Kobold Quarterly has some Sanity mechanics online as well.

A Broken Mind - Sanity and Mental Disorders - Part 1.

A Broken Mind - Sanity and Mental Disorders - Part 2.

Reading briefly that looks like just a new variant of mental hit points. As I mentioned above, I'm familiar with the concept and I find it boring and dull. Players easily become accustomed to the rules and they become very predictable and don't feel dangerous. I'm looking for concepts that maintain that feel of danger even after you get used to them.

Quote:
I'd recommend checking out Unknown Armies's Madness Meter rules. They've been widely praised as a way better way to handle sanity in RPGs than "brain hitpoints

The Unknown Armies format might translate well to PF, though it would almost require a new or additional character sheet to keep track of, plus a new rules digest. Have you encountered any over simplifications of the system that present the complete core concepts briefly as you describe while still being playable?

One of my favorite things about a jenga version, or it's variants, is the inherent danger of the mechanic. Even if this turn doesn't drive you insane, it might leave you in such precarious situation that it really activates that fearful part of the brain.

The problem with a mental hit point system is that it activates an analytical part of the brain instead of a primal one.

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