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Part 1
After about two years of playing time, we just completed our "Council of Thieves" campaign. While I have DM'd about 6 APs now, this will be the third one that actually saw its way from start to finish. In order to help the developers of these modules perfect the art of module design, I have decided to list off our group's impressions of the campaign overall, each chapter, specific moments that were really awesome or really weak, and so forth.
This was the first campaign that I ran as the modules were released, and so a lot of plot points and NPCs for me weren't really available until certain points of running the campaign. For instance, I would loved to have foreshadowed Vuiper Ghivel, The Mhartises and Ciuccis, and some of the other major families that appear in the sixth part. This is sort of the inherent danger of running an AP as the modules are released: there may be a disconnect between modules in what occurred in a group's story versus what is written in the module. It's a lot harder to wander off the railroad if you don't have all the pieces present to build the sandbox. The only thing I wish would be an extra page maybe in the Campaign Summary in the first module that lists off key NPCs (with whatever class levels are envisioned for that NPC, even if they are changed by the end) and what events they have to play in the campaign.
Overall, this seemed to be a very event driven campaign, with the majority of the campaign taking place in one city. This worked very well for my group, as all of them were interested in role-playing with the various citizens of Westcrown and forming relationships within. It helped to raise the importance of cetain events if NPCs such as Janiven, Arael, Calseinica,and Paralictor Chard were taking place in them. For instance, in the final module, when the Bearded Devils mounted on Hellcats are terrifying the nobility, I had their current victim be the Paralictor, valiantly fighting off the legion and giving the PCs a chance to join swords with him again, possibly saving his life.
At any rate, I feel that the over-arching story of the campaign is strong as a whole, its just the disconnection between the various modules that weakens it and makes it not as strong as other APs (like RotR and KM). Players who reclaimed the Marrowfall in part 3 may not understand why they're going after a Pit Fiend in Part 4 or going into the woods in part 5. I made it work, but I can easily see how other groups lose their motivation to react to certain events. Individually, the modules (with one exception) are written very well. My players all loved the idea of reclaiming a benighted city and eventually controlling it, and the elements of theater, nobility, and shadow conspiracies are done quite well. Overall, this campaign lends itself quite easily to the Gothic mood, with the presence of the dangerous night, vampires, and Faustian contracts reinforcing this feel . Its important for DMs not to forget this: Westcrown starts out not as an ordinary city but a center of decay suffering under the intangible horror of the shadow curse.
This campaign, we used a 'roll 4d6 and drop the lowest result' six times, resulting in heroic stat builds. At the time, this seemed like a time honored tradition for campaigns and thus a good idea. In hindsight, I now realize that most APs and even Bestiary monsters to a degree utilize an assumption that the PCs will have a 15 point build. As the sixth module began, we calculated our point buys, and they were about 40 point builds. This might be why I find some disparity between the power levels of the PCs and the modules as written, especially at higher levels. Without getting into the current argument about what sort of point buy is best, I WISH PAIZO HAD SOME GUIDELINES FOR RUNNING THEIR APS WITH HIGHER POINT BUILDS. I feel like this is different than having more players, as higher stats means higher DCs, better saves, more HPs, and the extreme viability of many of the MAD classes like Paladin or (as in our campaign), Monk. However, since at the time I only had three players for the AP, I considered adding my own NPC to the party to add survivability.. Three was the fewest number I'd ever ran, and felt like the party wouldn't be balanced enough without 4 players. [Again, Pathfinder had just come out when we began the AP, and since I had run Age of Worms twice and Runelords by then, I expected a deadly path that would be brutal with just 3 PCs]. Thus, I added my own NPC, who I thought would be relatively easy to run and able to springboard story events due to his abilities. Anyways.we start with a variant of the classic four:
-Blaustein Aalfanger: Dwarf Monk
-Fiamma Diosa: Half Elf Cleric (Calistra)
-Alario Jeggare: Human Rogue
-Elias Lucca: Human Wizard (Diviner)
My NPC is the Wizard, whose background I loosely tied to Rance Lucca but also made him a former colleague of Sandor the Strange (added later). Blaustein's background was fairly neutral and easy to tie in as well. Alario and Fiamma had very extensive backgrounds that eventually influenced how the remainder of the path played out, especially the fifith and sixth modules; This deserves a bit of explanation. While Fiamma's adopted name is Diosa, her half elf status makes that name inherited rather than her true bloodline. This is due to some minor events written to tie the PC backgrounds in that I created:
-In 4681, An ancient elfgate was discovered in the depths of the catacombs of Westcrown, a portal that connected the city to a clearing outside of the capital of Kyonin.
-A diplomatic envoy consisting of Alario's father (Volaire Jeggare), Fiamma's real father (Meggare Thrune), Sidonnai Drovenge, and Andreo Diosa was sent to Iadara. Over the course of a year, the group convinced the xenophobic elves to trade a powerful magical relic (The Maleficus Spike from 'A Memory of Darkness') for a large amount of Evil-Outsider Bane Weapons, tools normally used to hold the devils of the empire in check, re-purposed for the conflict against the Tanglebrair.
-During these meetings, an elven maiden (Shuraneen Thurwyn) had a dalliance with Meggare Thrune, resulting in the birth of Fiamma. However, to protect to the good name of Thrune, the offspring was neither claimed by the maiden (also a priestess of Calistra) nor by Meggare Thrune, whose family name would be tarnished by the presence of the offspring. Rather than do the unthinkable, the child was passed onto Andreo Diosa by Meggare Thrune (for the price of the ownership of a lucrative brothel.)
-In the end, Andreo grew bolder with the knowledge and possession off this bastard, so eventually he was silenced by the Council of Thieves (specifically Maglin from part 5).
-As a side-clause of the contract between Meggare and Andreo, possession of the brothel reverted to Fiamma upon her coming of age. Thus, at the start of the campaign, Fiamma was a Half-Elven Cleric of Calistra who owned a brothel, using it as a cover for her outlawed religion.
-As for house Jeggare, I set Alario up with a two-story manor house owned by his family (in the crown sector). I liked the idea of a home-base, but felt like the safehouse to Aroden was a little impersonal and I wanted somewhere that really was a player's home. I must admit, some of what follows got inspired by a combination of Assassin's Creed and Batman. I gave the manor its own secret vault whose contents weren't made immediately accessible (due to be completely hidden in plain sight) until later in the path. Eventually, a poster-map version of the manor was created so I could send assassination attempts against the PC and run assaults on his manor with a tactical map. Storywise, Alario's father became involved with the Pathfinders in the years following the Kyonin excursion. Eventually, the power of the Maleficus Spike became a focal point of a power struggle between the Pathfinders and agents of Thrune. Coupled with events in Delvehaven, Volaire Jeggare took possession of the Spike and hid it in the depths of manor's vault. After this, he is presumed to have disappeared (player's knowledge for first four modules) while in fact was he assailed by the same purge that took the other pathfinders, petrified into a statue and stored inside the vaults of Walcourt.
-As the campaign began, Alario's family fortunes had begun to run out and tax collectors began growing bolder and bolder in attempts to extort what little funds Alario possessed. This setup a couple minor villains in the employ of the Council that I could use later.
-Negatives-
A) Janiven's Speech: The biggest criticism that has been voiced about this module is the largely anti-Thrune sentiment that sets sort of the wrong tone about the events to come. I tried to mitigate Janiven's speech a little bit about taking back the city from Thrune and instead utilized the idea that only those with the courage to stand against the night could help lift the city, and Arael was one of those. There's already been threads about this, and they are relevant.
-Fix: Tempering her speech with the themes mentioned above.
B) Hellknight Interactions: As it is, the Hellknights are setup as the bad guys, stomping on freedom of speech and wronglfully incarcerating the good priest of Iomedae, Arael. I do like the idea that the PCs get an extra Fame point for not killing any of them, though the module gives the PCs no indication of this as written (in a way, rewarding actions based on alignment and in some ways, circumstance). Also, I've heard of many groups (not mine) that butchered the Armigers and dared any pursuers to go after them into the sewers. As written, there's nothing that suggests what the Hellknights will do if the PCs slaughter the entire platoon of them, escalating the conflict. Indeed, after the firebrand political speech of Janiven, I could see unscrupulous PCs leaving dead Hellknights as messages. At any rate, the heart of the module isn't about fighting the Hellknights, yet the first part makes fighting them somewhat of a red herring. Indeed, as far as an organization, they are completely silent until module 6, despite any actions the PCs may or may not take against them, which at the very least involves defeating a small group of them to rescue Arael. I and a lot of other players were disappointed that despite the excellent side articles published in the later modules, very little was used with them in the actual modules themselves.
-Fix: Wish I'd done more with this. I'd take some work, but Hellknights could be used as a more interactive force of law that supplements the Dottari. In a way, the PCs powers will eventually eclipse that of the guards. That's where the Hellknights come in, the least of which is a 5th level fighter/ Hellknight 1. I would show them as a force that hounds the PCs efforts in modules 1-3, and then tries to maintain order in the city in parts 4-6. This makes the schism all the more dramatic in part 6, especially when it becomes clear that all the efforts against the PC are being directed by a Hellknight in the pocket of the Council of Thieves (Signifer Verennie). This allows her and the Paralictor to be introduced far earlier and make them more memorable.
C)Great Backstories... Why are they left on the shelf??: As written, you've got 11 pseudo-PCs in the Children of Westcrown, one for each core class, all of whom have interesting backstories. Unfortunately, after this module, little is done with them as a whole. I know its up to the DM to utilize these extras in their own way, but little is given in any other module as to how to use these NPCs. This is also the case with almost all of the nobility presented in the 'Westcrown' article, leaving it up to the DM to expand upon these. Personally, I think it would have added a lot of depth if one of them had turned out to be a mole for the council, forcing the PCs to investigate the backgrounds and events surrounding their allies.
-Fix: DMs should consider using the Children for a lot of the errand work that the PCs might normally do, such as gathering information, sending and spreading messages, buying mundane items, and so forth. This allows them to be used as a way to gauge the 'word on the street' for purposes of events and rumors. Also, I utilized the Children heaviliy in part 6 where the expenditure of Fame Points reflected the Children of Westcrown "spreading the word" about the PCs deeds.
D) Shadowcurse: There is a fundamental lack of menace to the shadowcurse as written. The main thing that people need to fear on the darkened streets of Westcrown are the lowly Shadowgarms and the outrageously powerful Shadow Mastiffs, two creatures with a great disparity of power levels. Also, the Mastiffs bay constantly, which is not mentioned anywhere in the description of Westcrown despite the fact that something like that would be very noticeable and disturbing. At any rate, with only these two creatures (and possibly the even deadlier Shadow), its unclear what the true menace of the Shadow Curse is other than the fact that sometimes you might cross paths with a weird shadow creature that gets staggered in any kind of light (which every non-darkvision using PC is going to carry). There's just not enough shadow creatures in all of the modules to give that feeling of wonder and menace that the PCs might very well be swallowed up by the night.
-Fix: Well, at least the newer Bestiarys have some interesting Shadow based critters, like the Gloomwing, Tenebrous Worm, and Dark Slayer, so this helps a little. I would honestly consider giving the Totemrix a special power that causes the ambient light within a mile to grow one step darker as long as the sun isn't shining. Also, having areas of the deepest shadow be areas where the boundaries between the Material Plane and the Plane of Shadow are thin is also an idea... alleyways where its always colder and a little bit darker. This makes finding a Shadowgarm to kill for a fame point more of a memorable and dangerous task. Perhaps the PCs have to shore up the light in certain places to lessen the chances of leaks from the Plane of Shadow. Just a couple tips to help increase the menace of what has caused an entire city to decline artistically and spiritually. I'm sure this has been said before, but it'd be awesome if the Bestiaries in the back of the modules actually used most of their monsters in the adventure. I don't buy the APs for more monsters, I buy them for cool encounters which sometimes utilize new and unknown menaces. This has gotten better with the Carrion Crown AP, so others words are being taken to heart.
-Positives-:
A) Good Rescue Encounter: Despite the above critique, rescuing Arael is a pretty good part of the module and well written as an encounter.
B) Well designed mini-dungeon: The final lair where the Bastards live is well thought out, being slightly sand-boxy as far as how the PCs can approach it, and the way the enemies respond is completely dynamic based on the PCs actions. These are my favorite kind of fights, especially when they have flavor (like the fake mummy tieflings and the dog). It reminds me of the another well-written encounter, the final one of the 'Stolen Lands' from KM as far as encounter flexibility.
C)Well designed city!: Everyone loved the feel and flavor of Westcrown as presented. The waterways and alleyways, curfews and decadence, and secret organizations all give the city a gritty, realistic feel. Well done. Also, a lot of information on the noble lines and city sectors, which is very flavorful, if underused in the rest of the path.
-PC Advancement-
No character deaths in this module. Overall, no specific encounter was really hard, though I remember that the group got lucky against Palaveen. PCs advanced as follows: [Monk 3, Wizard 3, Rogue 2/Fighter 1, Cleric 2/Rogue 1]
-Encounter Assessment-
Good Encounters: Arael's Rescue, Tieflings, Scabby, Wolf Skeletons, Giant Rot Grub, Ostengo, Hell dogs,Dravano, Palaveen
Bad Encounters: Hellknight Armigers, Sewer Goblins, Shadowgarms
Toughest fight: Palaveen
Weakest fight: Shadowgarms
-Negatives-
A)Trickiness of "Become Actors to Get into the Mayor's party" Hook: This completely worked for my group, but I would warn other GMs to gauge their groups motivations and use those to get them to perform the play. If its going after the girl, use Calseinica as a hook, or if its safeguarding an actor using clerical magic, PCs need a good motivation to be actors beyond what's given in the module. My group had no problem playing actors (the player of Fiamma even cross-classed into rogue so she could have Perform as a class skill), but I could see other groups rebelling against the idea of performing a play with not only extremely infernal overtones but also the possibility of being killed. Not necessarily a negative, just a caution for other DMs.
B) Room of Endless Shadows: Really?? No one saw the possible problem with this one? You either have the potential for an XP farm or a TPK for unwary players. Somehow, I was able to use the threat of this room to herd my PCs deeper into the Asmodean Knot, but I think it's only because of my group's build that they were able to survive without too much damage (Basically, buff the monk's AC as high as possible then make him the target of the shadows while everyone else runs by). There could be a huge potential problem here for some groups.
Fix: Either enforce an XP cap on the encounter as a whole (treating the Shadows almost like summoned monsters from a trap) for stronger groups, or lessen the number of rounds that pass between shadows appearing (even requiring a Shadow to take a full-round to materialize) for weaker groups.
C) Need more dinner guests!: Not really a weakness considered the space allowed by the module, its just an excellent place to introduce any future NPCs that have parts to play in the coming adventures, specifically parts 4 and 6. Considering how pervasive the Council of Thieves is supposed to be with the city's nobility, I was hoping for another dinner guest besides Chammady. This is a weakness of the AP as a whole: there isn't enough of the actual members of the Council of Thieves developed to present a clear picture of who they are and how they influence the city.
Fix: Use the dinner party to fill out with any NPCs that seem important to the future of the path, and allow more checks per PC to talk to the various dinner guests. This might make the dinner party itself an entire session (a la Prince of Redhand), but allows the DM to flush out whatever aspects of the city and nobility that they want to represent and at the same time serve mock-up version of the food presented in the module (though probably without as much alcohol).
-Positives-
A) The Six Trials...: Outstanding. Just absolutely brilliant. The whole idea of having the PCs perform a play, experience dangerous trials onstage, and possibly even act out lines if they wish is just a phenomenal idea, and this is brilliantly executed.
B) Asmodean Knot: This is a well thought out dungeon, with enough unique enemies and strange dungeon features to make it memorable. My group won't forget the endless staircases or infinite maze-like rooms, nor the insane bearded devil or imp with its various trials. Every monster within the dungeon had a unique backstory, which I absolutely loved.
C) Sian Daemodus: I completely love it when the writers give you a unique villian with lots of tools sent to wreck havoc on the party. Sian became a recurring villain, eventually a dark reflection of Alario's character. By the fifth module, she became a vampire under Ilnerik's control. I wish they would do this in every module: a unique villain with enough powers and gear to tax the PCs as they go about their other goals.
D) Dinner Party!: Well, I must admit that after 'Prince of Redhand', I have a soft spot for this sort of thing. I love this idea of impressing the nobility and other power players in a massive social setting. While sort of a lighter version of the aforementioned adventure, this was still good.
E)Runecurse: Wish this was used again in the AP, as the idea was brilliant. The only downside was that since I was playing the NPC with with highest Intelligence and Knowledge skills, it was hard to fudge the effectiveness of the runecurse. Still, the trap's potency was not lost on the PCs, and in the end, the item was gifted to the insane Imp. Again, I love the whole idea of this and wish it had been used again.
-PC Advancement-
No deaths again, but there was at one point an extreme potential for some character deaths. The party had just fought the mummy, bearded devil, and had tangled with Sian, besides suffering ability damage. I believe in the fight with the mummy, Rot was contracted. My solution was to have an extremely curious Calseinica Nymmis find the hidden cache of priestly gear in the spare room (which unless your PCs are the unscrupulous sort, there's no way they are going to find this huge cache of treasure), wander through the maze, and show up with 6 strength damage from the shadows but also a scroll of Remove Curse. This was the beginning of many acts that endeared Cal to the PCs, eventually setting her up to become a cohort with leadership.
PCs: [Wizard 5, Monk 5, Rogue 3/Fighter 2, Cleric 4/Rogue 1]
-Encounter Assessment-
Good Encounters: All but Shadow Room
Toughest Fight: Shadow Room
Weakest Fight: Nothing too bad here.. Maybe Troll Skeletons, but that's only because the Monk destroyed them in two breaths.
-Negatives:
A)Chained Quest Sequence:Getting the intelligence from the vanquished pathfinders feels too much like a chain-quest sequence. The items in the wave door, while extremely helpful aren't necessary for completing the path. What's more, a lot of the background information about the vanquished pathfinders isn't available for the PCs to recover unless they ask specific questions with the grave candles. Also, too much plot point hinges on a failed will save, which while statistically likely, might cause some problems for groups. Missing out on all this backstory due to hot rolling on the DM seems problematic. Also, some groups resent the idea of chained-quest sequences.
Fix: Not sure, except not giving a will save (or fudging roll) on grave candles. Or maybe instead, having some personal memento of the deceased imparting a -5 on the will save. Also, the riddle solution is kind of clunky so that even if the PCs solve the mystery with the candles, they might not interpret what they're supposed to do.
B)Devildrome: For a module written for 5th level PCs, the power level in the first part of the module (chained quest sequence) is horribly low, and the Devil Drome is the best case of this. If the PCs aren't playing a Summoner or Arcane Caster, they throw in their champion... except any 5th level fighter type is going to make mincemeat of any Summon Monster critter of 4th level or less, especially lots of low powered mooks. The dretches are no threat whatsoever, and this fight turned into a comedy. Even when Thrax attacked, it was treated as a joke as the Monk quickly beat and humiliated him. The other problem is that the rules for how the combat itself works aren't very clear, so many interpretations of what is or is not allowed in the arena can get thrown in.
Fix: Rewrite Thrax as a Summoner and up his levels by 2-3. This will give him more dangerous summons and make the fight more memorable. Also, make sure the rules of the Devildrome are clear. When Thrax attacked the monk with direct spells, it took a moment for the PCs to realize that he had broken the rules.
C)Imbalance in encounters: The fights in this module go from being ridiculously easy at points to downright deadly in others, with no warning given in either case. Some of the encounters, like the Sisters of Eiseth and the Evil Dolls, while very flavorful, have no potential to be challenging at all. I'm aware of the point build of my group, yet I think the Sisters would have just as hard a time hitting a 15 pt buy, 5th level Human Fighter. At any rate, this is imbalanced by ridiculous monsters like the Shadowy Triceratops and the Vampires.
D) Marrowfall Powers Inconsistency: Bisby eventually goes insane from possessing the Marrowfall, yet there is absolutely nothing in the description of its powers or abilities. From Bisby's fate, one might assume that the artifact has an ego, intelligence, or at least a curse, yet there's nothing written for it. This just doesn't seem to make sense, especially when there's a haunt present illustrating his insane demise. My PCs were initially afraid of touching the thing because of the flavor surrounding it. At any rate, I felt there should have been some drawback to the thing since its almost too good of an item against the path's enemies (vampires, shadow things).
Fix: Give the thing either an Ego or something similar to the point system that the Totemrix utilizes, having insanity instead of death being the end result.
E) Unnecessary Traps: While most of the traps in Delvehaven were pretty cool, the ones in the hallways (Transposition traps) are not only located in places the party is unlikely to encounter them but are also ineffective in terms of doing anything. It suggests using the dolls simultaneously with the traps, but since they are so weak on their own, neither is a challenge and just eats up game time.
-Positives:
A)Pathfinder Lodge: Everyone liked the feel and the flavor of the abandoned lodge. The flavorful treasure, paintings, and haunts all helped convey the dark ambiance of the lodge. Good use of descriptive text. Other than the encounter imbalance issues and the traps, the lodge is pretty solid.
B)Vampires!: This was a good introduction to PF Vampires, and the three presented here are all awesome. They all have interesting backstories (especially the former vampire-hunter) and each of them was fun to run. Again, I liked the versatility of their usage: I could use any of them in any combination in any room, depending on where I felt that they fit best thematically.
C)Cool Treasure: Marrowfall issues notwithstanding, the unique treasure presented in this path was pretty good. Grave Candles, the Chelish Crux and the head of the Erinyes were all nce bits of flavorful loot. I especially loved role-playing the crazy devil head, made for some fun RP.
-Added Stuff: We were all tired of Shadows at that point, so instead of using them again at the Wave Door, I created a monster I called "The Black Water", a homemade hybrid of a gray ooze and a shadow. I also began realizing the lack of shadow monsters in general and began taking the Shadowgarms and advancing them, giving them a few new powers and less of a weakness towards light.
-PC Advancement: First real death of the campaign with Fiamma perishing against the monstrosity that is the Shadowy Triceratops. This sort of stopped the module for a session as a sidequest was enacted to get her raised. Basically, we all felt it inappropriate for a Cleric of Calistra to be raised by a Cleric of Asmodeus, so a number of other means and Arael were utilized to bring her back. As far as leveling, it pretty much stays singular class for everyone except Alario. Again inspired by Assassin's Creed and Batman, his character begins developing fighting styles that utilize an enemy's weapons against them. He also wanted to keep a theme of 'no magical abilities, all mundane gear' with the character, an aesthetic I thought fit itself quite nicely to the feel of the city. [Monk 7, Wizard 7, Cleric 6/Rogue 1, Fighter 2/Monk 2/ Rogue 3]
-Encounter Assessment-
-Good Encounters: Shadow Mastiffs, Shadowy Triceratops, Water Elemental, Haunts, Hellcat, Vampires
-Bad Encounters:Devildrome, Sisters of Eiseth, Shadows, Evil Dolls, Will-o-Wisp,
-Toughest Fight: Shadowy Triceratops
-Weakest Fight: Evil Dolls
Continued...
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Part 2
-Negatives:
A)Liebdaga the Twit: There's been a similarly titled thread that goes into more details on this. This encounter took what could have been one of the best modules and turned it into a major disappointment. Its always hard to gauge a party's capabilities, but against Liebdaga, the numerous ways of weakening the Pit Fiend neutered him to the point of being completely ineffective. I think he got off three standard actions the whole fight. I like the idea of having a lower level party of PCs going up against a high CR that's been weakened in some way (like Dragotha), but the weakening goes too far here.
Fix: In hindsight, I would have removed the staggered condition and the "Stun him with the Contract" mechanic to make the fight more exciting. Afterall, the party KNOWS its going up against a pit fiend of sorts and are going to be ready for him.
B)5' Tunnels and other Map Woes: The biggest issue with the dungeon itself is the map. Not only are a lot of the fights (as written) condensed into 5' funnel-tunnels or narrow catwalks but the size of the map makes translating it to the battlegrid problematic. Large sized maps aren't the issue, its more of its non-conformity to a standard shape (a spiral) that renders a lot of grid-using tools ineffective, like tiles or even a vinyl map (since the dungeons size requires multiple erasing and redrawing)
Fix: I would consider widening and shortening the tunnels between the rooms to avoid the "base the monster and roll dice til one party dies" tactic that can't help but present itself in such a narrow area.
C)This city's going to burn??...Cool!: With all of the infernal-powered decadence presented in the last couple modules as well as the lack of participation in the events by the Hellknights and clergy, I can see groups getting disgusted with the city and "doing the wrong thing"...like killing the mayor or skipping the whole module by doing nothing. It really is kind of how the DM up to this point has presented the city and its citizens as to whether the group decides to save it.
Fix: Not really a weakness of the module as a whole, I would just consider having NPCs the PCs value present at the scene, either fighting devils, captured by the present council agents, or even bravely plunging into the Nessian Spiral. It feels like despite the catastrophe, no one in the city is doing anything to stop it.
D)A succubus walks into an Infernal Wheel...: Is this a dig at 4th ed? It just seemed really out of place with the feel of the rest of the module, especially considering the environment in which you encounter her. As written, her tactics don't work because of the nature of the Spiral itself: no teleporting without a real high CL check. This leads one to wonder how the succubus got into the dungeon in the first place.
Fix: There's a number of other similarly powered CR devils from the newer books (B2, B3, BotD1) that would work better, (though to be fair, I ended up using her as a partner for the Doppelganger in the final module. Seemed to fit a lot better)
E) Better "meltdown mechanics" needed: It just seemed like a lot of the mechanics for the destabilization of the complex felt a little repetitive. I think all of the hazards required "reflex save for half damage", rewarding those with evasion and spamming others. Blinding Flashes and Deafening Roars requiring Fortitude saves or Infernal Wailing requiring Will saves might have been nice instead of repeated "more bolts of energy erupt from the pipes" cliche.
-Positives:
A)Awesome hellscape: Thematically and descriptively, the module worked really well in presenting an image of not only the possible immediate doom given by abused infernal power, but also the possible eventual fate of the city at the end of the last module. From the pentagonal columns of hellfire to the illusory vistas before Liebdaga's chambers, all of it is presented very well.
B)Best Encounters in AP: Jerusen. Mayor Vheed. Zol. Jezeletrix. Zovarue. There are so many uniquely challenging creatures in this module that it definitely has some of the best fights of the AP. Even the stock monsters all have some degree of flavor or reason for being there.
C)Let's save this city!!!: My PCs dove wholeheartedly into the idea of saving the city from catastrophe. They all felt a real sense of impending doom ticking down until a point of irreversible damage. If the DM conveys it properly, there is a real potential for daring and heroics in the face of disaster. Everyone seemed to like the idea of beginning to take control of the city and lead its citizenry.
-PC Advancement: Another death, averted thanks to Hero points. Mayor Vheed's death throws got Blaustein the Monk. Many of the fights were a bit tougher this module. Anyways, advancement stayed pretty much the same, with the exception of Alario. [Monk 9, Wizard 9, Cleric 8/Rogue 1, Fighter 2/Monk 2/Rogue 4/ Shadowdancer 1]
-Encounter Assessment:
-Good Encounters: All but listed beneath
-Bad Encounters: Gargoyles (over CR'd monster) Tiefling Tunnel Rats, Burning Guardian (too easily bypassed), Liebdaga the Twit
-Toughest Fight: Erinyes (under CR'd monster)
-Weakest Fight: Liebdaga
-Negatives-
A)Walcourt Monster Boredom: In this module and the next, there is an overuse of stock badguys that repeats itself throughout the dungeon complex. Many of the lower CR monsters such as the Dark Creepers, Thieves, Dogs, and even Shadow Mastiffs pose absolutely no threat to a group of 9th to 11th level PCs. Not only are these encounters not challenging but they repeat themselves through Walcourt. This takes away from the mysterious ambiance that should be present in the main guildhouse of the Council of Thieves. Also, for the supposed heart of the shadow curse, there is absolutely no change in the environment or creatures noticable, with the exception of the Nihiloi. PCs that have already fought Shadowgarms (which aren't even here), Shadow Mastiffs, and Shadows are going to be disenchanted with the lack of increase in shadowy foes. In fact, most of the monsters with the exception of the Nihiloi and Calikang are decidedly mundane considering the supernatural nature of the Shadow Curse.
Fix: As mentioned above about the Shadow Curse, many of the stock badguys should be swapped out with some of the newer monsters from the Bestiary 2 and 3. Also, there seems to be some sort of conflict between the Shadowfolk and the council agents that is hinted at, but there's nothing left to work with here. It seems almost like there's some sort of political intrigue between the Nidalese shadow agents and the Chelish thieves, yet there's no way to take advantage of this as written.. perhaps a weary Council agent who is tired of the Shadowfolk?
B)The Totemrix does... Nothing?: Another moment of disappointment for my PCs (yet secret relief) as everyone was expecting the thing to have powers similar to that of the Marrowfall. Not all treasure or magical items have to be useful, but as near as I can tell, this thing just kills people or worse. Sure, you can summon really weak shadow critters if you're a vampire, but it seems like the dark half of the split artifact gets the shaft as far as powers. Everyone was expecting Ilnerik to open up with an Enervation, Energy Drain, or something equally terrible. Even Deeper Darkness would have been preferable to well.. nothing. It's kind of hard to sell that a Vampire just using its Children of the Night ability is entirely responsible for perpetuating a curse that has caused the social decay of an entire city. Also, if the Totemrix just kills you, why would any PC (especially a pathfinder with the knowledge Ilnerik possesses) want it? Never mind the problem that whatever PC picks it up receives the curse inherent in owning it. There's absolutely no reason to rejoin the two halves as written, as doing so not only deprives the PCs of a major tool but also potentially curses one of them with eventual death.
Fix: I would consider giving the artifact some Spell-like abilites, the power mentioned in my Shadowcurse synopsis, and better shadow critters to summon. This also gives the PCs a dilemma of using another powerful tool at the possible cost of eventual destruction. As it is, uncaring PCs might just leave the Totemrix where it is and go on their merry way. Heck, they could just drop it in the channels around the city and without an ego, the thing is just liable to sit there forever, with no consequences.
C)Attack of the weak enemy NPC: What's up with Stiglor and Maglin?? Two of the Council's "named" killers should be significantly powerful, yet these two have a number of sub-optimal choices in classes, feats, and gear selection. Maglin's artwork (which looks awesome) completely doesn't match his stats as presented and Stiglor's stat-block is incorrect (attack values as miscalculated). Furthermore, these two in particular (and Kruthe the Hammer) just don't have the numbers to be an equal challenge to a 9th level party. Their attack values are too low (even with Stiglor's miscalc) and ACs laughable enough that even a 3/4 BAB PC is going to hit either most of the time. Furthermore, their saves are one roll away from being nerfed by a 'save or sink' spell like Phantasmal Killer, Blindness Deafness, and a host of others. I think all three of these guys went down in less than a couple rounds, and that's even after tweaking their gear and swapping a couple of feats out. It's strange that after The Dealer, the Priestess of Mammon, and Crosael in the last module, the power of the newer players are lower compared to these older ones.
Fix: I would completely rewrite Maglin as a straight rogue (drop the assassin level, it gives nothing but a hard to pull off, easy to save against death attack) or a Ranger/Rogue Hybrid. Pay attention to Stiglor's stat block and consider giving him a few Bane arrows of the appropriate type. Also, remember by that at this point of the path, the Council should know who the PCs are and what their capabilities are. If they overuse invisibility, teleporting, or other means, give these guys the appropriate counters to deal with them.
D)Poor dungeon design: Sorry, but Walcourt is a strange complex with narrow corridors, rooms that don't make sense, and encounters where the enemies are limited by their own environment. There should have been way more murder-holes, trapped doors, poison, pits, areas of utter shadow, and most importantly secret doors. The top two floors have a few strange traps that are poorly executed in that they either have no warning as to their location (as with the candelabra/cone of cold trap) or are awesome but easily bypassed or not encountered at all (like the guillotine trap). Furthermore, the placement of traps and guardians doesn't correlate with what the Council or any organization would know about the PCs. At this point, most PCs have a means to fly, yet the rooftop is sparsely guarded by a couple of lowly thieves and no traps, and its easy enough to just go from there straight into Sandor's chambers and take him out. Futhermore, nothing is to stop uncanny PCs from just exploring the sewers beneath the complex and going straight to Ilnerik. This struck me as odd considering Vaughan's track record on awesome dungeons. As written, there's little that the enemies do to shore up their defenses once they realize that their secret safehouse is under attack.
Fix: Quite Frankly, I completely redrew the dungeon, keeping the rooms and traps I liked but laying them out in a more cohesive order. I also added an upstairs false vault that was really just a series of deathtrap chambers, and a summoning area with a bound Contract Devil (who the PCs could question without reprisal.. made good RP). Also, in my campaign, I utiliized Sian as a vampire, and her lair was also in the basement. Also, if you're a vampire in a massive thieves organization, why isn't your coffin trapped?
-Positives-
A) Awesome new monsters: Despite the boredom with the stock monsters, that new additions in the bestiary were awesome and thoroughly usable in the path. The Nihiloi, Calikang, Vrylovakas, and Possession Devils all saw use in my campaign, The Calikang is particularly awesome, so much that I decided to preface its appearance with a "100,000 gp receipt from Vudra" clue amidst the paperwork of the Council to foreshadow this deadly guardian.
B) Good traps: Again, the traps here are good as written, just their placement is a little strange in places. I thought the guillotine was particularly nasty.
C) Good final encounter: The fight against Ilnerik is quite memorable despite his lack of Totemrix powers. High AC and a real threat from his slam attacks make him a dangerous foe to confront, especially if the PCs have just faced the Calikang. The complication of captured allies in the tanks (in this case, kidnapped prostitutes from Fiamma's brothel) helps the fight even more. Great end fight for the module.
D) Great mini-mass battle: Despite its simplicity, I like the mechanics for the Hagwood Siege. It gives the PCs ways to deal with their enemies besides just fighting them in mass (such as putting out the fires, destroying tents) and also affecting the battle with their previous actions. I enjoyed describing the carnage of the redcaps and the destruction wrought by the giant beetle, and it made the PCs feel like their previous actions mattered, despite the fact that as they were then, the PCs could have defeated the entire invading force without breaking much of a sweat. Oh yeah, and there's that one-shot, high DC, 80' radius burst from the Marrowfall that also kind of ends the fight too.Good luck retreating when you're blind...
E)Hagwood and the Mother of Flies are creepily awesome: The ambiance of the dark forest and the words and actions of the Mother of Flies help keep with the brooding mood of the adventure path. This is something I occasionally like: A single high level enemy who could destroy the party, but for the time being has similiar goals in mind (like Iggwvyl in 'Enemies of my Enemy'). Also, the whole 'flies' thing was creepy, a hag who utilizes pestilence and vermin as her mode of operation.
-Added Stuff: I added a subquest: Ilnerik and his minions had used the power of the Totemrix to create a rift into the Plane of Shadow. This rift was located at the burnt at corpse of the old Hagwood tree that served before the Mother of Flies was forced to relocate. Since this AP has not one single dragon in it (?) I decided to add a third part to the Hagwood quests, defeat the dragon and close the portal so reinforcements can't be called upon in the Hagwood assault. The portal was guarded by a Young Umbral Dragon and populated by a host of Gloomwing eggs (preparing to transform in Tenebrous Worms). While they easily defeated the dragon, it was fun to run. I also added the aforementioned parts to Walcourt to make it more memorable.
-PC advancement: At the beginning of this module, the APG had just come out, so we allowed some "retraining" in between modules 4 and 5. Biggest change was me swapping out Diviner school powers for the Foresight school. My NPCs luck bonus from the diviner ability was becoming a little too powerful when thrown on the monk. Also, it stacked with bardic performances (competence bonus) and morale bonuses (Good Hope), raising almost every d20 roll the monk would make by +8 (which with flurry of blows, got ridiculous. This was also due to the inclusion of a bard from Alario's Leadership feat, Calseinica Nymmis, the source of the competence and morale bonuses. Rather than having one character gaining an 8 point swing over everything else, I figured a +2 or -2 all around would be more balanced. It only became powerful when the -2 luck and -2 morale from dirge of doom would be used to spam a save or sink spell, like Flesh to Stone, Dismissal, or a number of others. Blaustein stayed the same, as did Fiamma. Alario took a couple of archetypes for Fighter (Free Hand) and Monk (Monk of the Sacred Mountain). By end of the module, we looked like this: [Wizard 11(Diviner), Monk 11 (No Archetype), Rogue 1/Cleric 10 (Calistra), Fighter 2/Monk 2/Rogue 4/Shadowdancer 3, Bard 7(Cohort)] Also, Greater Feint and Medusa's Wrath are an awesome combo for two PCs to use. Despite this, we had two PC deaths (averted with hero points) due to the fireball bead ambush that happens at the beginning.
-Encounter Assessment
-Good Encounters: Madjaw, Jinkins, Stiglor, Sandor the Strange, Calikang, Nihiloi, Ogre Mage, Ilnerik, Vampire Sorceress, Chuuls, Shadow Rat Swarm, Mohrg
-Bad Encounters: Fireball Bead Ambush/Maglin and Kruthe, Shadowfolk, Thieves, Dogs, Shadow Mastiffs, Ogres, Hill Giants, Vampire Spawn
-Toughest Fight: Calikang
-Weakest Fight: Council Mooks (Thieves)
Overall Assessment: I've liked this path up until now, but everything from start to finish in this module feels rushed and disconnected,especially from the rest of the path as a whole. This made me use the module as a blueprint for my own custom end chapter, which I think worked a lot better than the repetitive slugfest and anticlimatic finale. I don't understand why this module is not only such a departure from the rest of the path but also decides to introduce a host of new NPCs that supposedly have been influencing the city the whole time... yet you don't hear about them in even a DM's capacity until this module. I feel like this path is guilty of this as a whole: introducing an NPC whose been behind the scenes the whole time, thrown at the party too late to have meaningful impact. Anyways, here's the problems I have with this module and how I tried to make it work. I succeeded, but not without a lot of effort, effort the module itself should have covered. I'm aware James Jacobs had a hand in this one, which is why I'm kind of shocked at the quality of this adventure considering his flawless (until now) track record. No disrespect intended, let the criticisms below be an effort to question and improve what I feel is a bad module.
A) Send in the mooks...: And man, there's a lot of them. It seems like the idea is either to make the PCs feel good about themselves before a hard fight or overwhelm them with numbers. The problem is that there are no hard fights coming and most of the mooks can't even make an effective dent on the party, even if they're all aiding each other and using every trick they can. I'm looking at you, Cutpurses, Thieves, and Rolan's Toys... Why stat out something that's going to be 6 levels lower than the party?
Fix: Thankfully, this doesn't seem to be the case with later APs..
B) Repeating identical high-level NPCs: The space devoted to the mooks could have been used to develop unique council captains other than the sample one that 's meant to represent 16+ sub-leaders of the Council of Thieves. There's lots of problems with this. The Council of Thieves is not a military organization and none of its members should be employing the same attack methods, especially when you're an 11th level, classed NPC. The module recommends using the Council Captain stat block for every enemy leader involved in most of the subquests. This is ill-conceived, simply because these captains are all ranged sniper builds that are being put into close-quarter areas. Range assassins function best with lots of space, terrain, and movement ability... and not one encounter with the exception of the Tannarik siege utilizes this kind of terrain. Furthermore, for an organization so connected to the nobility of the city, only one of these captains is given a name. After about the fourth encounter with the same kind of leader-type, PCs are going to already know what the guy's gear and tactics are before they even fight, depersonalizing what should be a fight with one of the mysterious, shadowy leaders the Council. Nevermind the fact that each captain as written has two arrows of Human Slaying, and they themselves are human (what if PCs aren't...why give a whole bunch of treasure that's just going to be used against them??) How many of these damn things do you get by the end? Enough to almost fill half a quiver if you're crafty in getting the drop on the repeating-stat captains
Fix: This single-handedly takes the most work to fix. Not only should each Council captain be given a name and a connection to the city's nobility, but should also be redesigned to work in the encounters they are featured in. Why not have a master of disguise/sleight of hand present for the "Noble Lure" subquest instead of ranged snipers? Why not use a duelist or two weapon fighter for defense of the Arodenama instead of... ranged snipers? It makes the Council seem stupid for putting the wrong people at the wrong places. There are a few usable NPCs of the appropriate level in the Game Mastery guide that can substitute, but about eight of different captains were written up on my part to lend flavor and history to the encounters. Heck.. What if one of the Children of Westcrown ended up being a Council Captain? I didn't do it in my game, but I think it would be pretty cool to try it.
C)Sandbox on a timetable is a tricky act: So.. the party has a number of subquests to complete but a limited time to accomplish them. Unfortunately, the details of this timetable are left kind of vague. It says that by the end of the adventure, General Vourne shows up with his navy to bring the city to order, and before that happens, the council attempts to put on the big show and take control of the city. However, the groupings of quests in Parts 1-6 of the module don't specify in exactly what order they occur in, how the correlate to one another, and how individuals who escape or die in one fight might influence another. There is no way to tell if its appropriate to spring the hooks to lead into the next series of quests or not. A lot of this seems like arbitrary DM interpretation rather than a clear-cut map of how events play out in the final act. For example, at what point do you introduce the rumors of the undead in the Dead Sector? When does all the off-camera stuff at Tannarik house (the defection, etc.) take place? Is Verennie already a ghost during the initial assault or not? I like the fact that the subquests can be presented in any order, I do not like the fact that there is little cohesiveness to link them together, other than saying "This starts to happen over here".
Fix: I mentally did this, but have a clear and concise plan of how the Council is causing chaos in the city and how they are keeping those who could do something about it busy. For example, I had the Church of Asmodeus investigating the rise of the undead in the Dead Sector, at least until they bit off more than they could chew with the Devourer. This makes it seem like these events don't just happen out of the blue and that people are also responding in their own way to the crisis, whatever that might be.
D) Weakest final fight of any AP written so far. Sorry, but as a solo BBEG (or even teamed up with Melevangian) Eccardian has nothing going for him. The PCs have faced Ilnerik, the Calikang, and other tough fights, yet Eccardian is weaker than these. Duelist is a wasted class when you don't have the action economy to do anything but use parry for defense, especially since he seems entirely reliant on his weapon, which has no real defense against being disarmed from him. His saves, particularly Will saves, are a joke for a final villian of a campaign, even against a 15 pt build party. If you run him solo (without Melevangian) or with Chammady helping the party, he's going to die very anti-climatically, probably against a save-or-suck effect like Blindness, Flesh to Stone, or Phantasmal Killer. Knowing this, I was able to have my wizard NPC "hold back" on using such spells, but he shouldn't have had to. In the end, even upping his AC by 3, his HP by 60 and his saves by +5 didn't save him from getting pummeled to death by a flurrying monk. Also, there's a Horned Devil on the cover of the module, but no Horned Devil?? WTF?
Fix: I changed a couple of things in the final fight, which in the end worked for my game, including the presence of a Horned Devil.
E) A cast of dozens.. appearing only in the last act??: Vuiper Ghivel, the Mhartises, Ciuccis, Rolan Derswitter, Paralictor Chard, and Signifer Verennie all seem like major players in the scenes behind Westcrown, yet we hear about all of them in the last act. This is disrespectful to the DM that bought the module: no matter what story has been developed by the NPCs presented in previous modules, it all stands aside as these new players step in to stir the final events. This is one of the biggest disconnects between this module and the others.
Fix: See below, as I added a 'dinner and theater' prelude scene to at least introduce these people so they weren't just "random crazy noble" and "hostage noble" types.
F) Popularity Mechanic is flawed: Mathematically, this doesn't work. Even with maximum popularity points earned and minimal Fame points spent, I'm having a hard time coming up with the 111 or higher, especially in a 15 pt build game where a PC may not possess leadership and maxed out Charisma as ours did. I like the idea of "spending Fame points to make stuff happen", yet having the PCs final score be based on the amount of unspent points feels like it punishes PCs for interacting with events and people. I myself changed a couple things in this regard since it's obvious that as its written, its impossible for players to both get the best possible ending and also interact meaningfully with the city's groups. Why would the PCs have less of a chance to secure control of the city if they spent efforts to let everyone know of their allegiance with either the Nobility or the Hellknights? Points spent should not reflect a lesser amount of purpose or willingness to help the city, if anything, it should be opposite. This was somewhat of a disappointment, as the other modules had built up Fame points as an important score used to influence the course of the ending. Unfortunately, the mechanics of Popularity and the final fame check make this unwieldy at best.
Fix: This took a minor rewrite on my part, but basically I had some of the point expenditures be greater to accomplish tasks. I also reflected the expenditure of Fame points by actions taken by the Children of Westcrown (warning away future assassination attempts by displaying assassin's body in the streets, as one example). The main change was scraping the entire final roll and replacing it with Fame check+ Doubled Number of Acquired Popularity Points= Final Score. This made it so they never regretted spending Fame Points, whether it was to reroll a Diplomacy check against Chammady or using them to have Rolan's toys guard Alario's safehouse. In the end, it made more sense than what's written.
G) Easiest module of the AP is the last?? Seriously, as written, there is not one tough fight in this whole module, with the possible exception of Melavengian. 12th level PCs that know they're fighting Devils and thieves and are going to roll every encounter written here. Things like DR, evasion, and elemental resistances are meaningless against a group of prepared PCs. Keep in mind, most PCs are going to be packing Holy Weapons, Dismissal, Banishment, and a host of other tools that are going to ruin the day of anything written in the module. In a way, its almost as if what the PCs have already faced has been forgotten. These encounters might be tough if the module was stand-alone and not as part of a series against devils and thieves. I guess the ghost is tough, but only because she is completely out of place.
Fix: Let's just say I substituted lots of encounters, advanced some monsters, created unique 11th level NPC assassins and so forth. Took a lot of work to at least make it challenging
H)Bestiary is a waste of space: No. really. A whole bunch of high CR (16+) monsters in an AP that ends at 13th level, and furthermore some aren't even in the right flavor of the module's final events. Why are these monsters here? Other than the Ebon Acolytus, which doesn't even appear in the module, not a one of these is ever going to be used at my gaming table, especially when the artwork for them is atrocious. This is one of the first times I have been extremely disappointed by the quality of the artwork in a Pathfinder module, or any Paizo product for that matter.
-Module Start- This module has no clear beginning event. I changed this with a celebration of the lifting of the shadow curse, as a night-time play and dinner party were being held at the Nightshade theater. With Robahl Nonon dusting off his director's cap, the play performed was "The Ruby of Maledov", an allegory for the price paid when hell's treasures are taken (if anyone wants details, let me know). At any rate, this let me drop Thesing in at the end as he crashes the performance then flees. I then used the pretext of a dinner party to detail the majority of the players, past and present who are involved in the city. This let me setup a who's who of the finale. It also let me introduce my first custom assassin at the end of dinner party, an alchemist bomber who used Delay Bomb shenanigans to "Carriage Bomb" the PCs as they were leaving the party.
-Wanted: Assassins- Here's a small list of what I swapped out for the council captains. (1)Alchemist 11 (aforementioned), (2)Master Summoner 11, (3) Tiefling Magus 11, (4) Halfling Rogue (sniper) 11, (5) Ranger 5/Fighter 4/Assassin 2, (6), Tiefling Monk 7/Fighter 4, (7) Rogue 1/Fighter 6/Duelist 3/Assassin 1, (8) Rogue 6/Assassin 5, (9) Tiefling Rogue 2/Fighter 6/Assassin 3, (10) Bandit Lord [GMG], (11) Pirate Captain [GMG], (12) Guild Master [GMG], (13) General [GMG].
-Part 2- 1) Gave Mhartis situation less of a hostage feel and more of a protection from assassination feel.I had one of the Council Captains also be a Dottari captain, having her going door to door with her Council brothers under the guise of protection and eliminating the last traditionalists in their own homes. I changed the Mhartises into a family beheld to the Council.
2) Give Delilee a playmate... Cause lone rogues are never good opponents. Added Joraviah here from "Infernal Syndrome" as an associate of Delilee. I took away the Doppelganger's connection to the Council because I couldn't think of any reason why she wouldn't already be employed if not in control of the Council. These two are my "bad things taking advantage of the chaos to create their own" enemies.
-Part 4-Assault on Safehouse and the Maleficus Spike- As I mentioned earlier, this artifact was a piece of legacy treasure revealed between parts five and six. The item (which basically creates a super version of Forbiddance in the structure its placed in) let me run a high scale assault involving my Master Summoner assassin and an army of devils, without wiping the whole party. Seeing a legion of bearded, bone, and barbed devils formed outside their house definitely gave my players pause, even if most of the devils couldn't directly harm anyone inside the structure.
-Hellknight Siege- I introduced some more written out NPCs for the Hellknights. I advanced Paralictor Chard to 11th level and had him mirrored by 3 Maralictors of varying prowess (I believe one was a Cavalier/Hellknight, the second an Inquisitor/Fighter/Hellknight, the third a Ranger/Hellknight, all about 8th level. This helped eliminate the "repeating bad guy" syndrome that threatened this encounter, and I omitted the second Hellknight fight in the next part entirely for this very reason. This made the siege more dynamic since they not only had to defeat the maralictors (one of whom becomes a Graveknight within two days of his defeat) but also drive back Signifer Verennie (not dead yet in my game) and eliminate the Council captain present.
-Blacknapes: Added a Council Captain, as one PC almost threatened to "Solo" this whole group of thugs.
-Rolan's Toys: Changed his Toys into Infernalized versions of themselves... Ebon Acolytes, cause CR 3 monsters have no place in an 11th level module. Basically he used a form of minor wish to ask that his creations be given the power to defend the city, and each of the living statues eyes were golden Mammon coins.
-Part 5- City of Death- As stated, I brought back one of the Maralictors as a Graveknight, placing him at the Sunset gate and putting the Devourer there in the Boneyard instead (which with its Animate Dead ability, made more sense) . Thesing's lair was replaced with an abandoned theater. I was fortunate enough to possess a copy of "Ashes at Dawn", so I ported over some of the Vampire nobles in that adventure as audience members of his newest performance. I also put some of the captured Children of Westcrown in as audience members, dominated into watching numerous terrible plays again and again. Palaveen became a Fiendish Mohrg from the "Undead Revisited" book instead of a normal Mohrg, which almost wiped a party member. The biggest change was to Signifer Verennie. I had her suicide result from ingesting hundreds of gold coins and choking on them. This let me add a haunt that forced the PCs to possibly recreate this death. Furthermore, I had the Animate Hoard from the Mammon article in the back come to life and attack at the same time as her. The only real nail-biting moment of this module occurred here: my NPC wizard got possessed. Without even knowing what we were up against (party assumed we were going against a living Sorceress), the cleric was packing a Dispel Evil, the only thing that kept my wizard from teleporting away.
-Part 6: Infernal Invasions:Skipped Hell's Defectors. Replaced with the Infernal Doomsayer, a disguised Heresy Devil and Contract Devil attempting to convert the masses with hellish preaching. Opposing them took DC 25 Know Religion checks to initiate discourse and then DC 50 fame checks to sway the crowd, followed by defeating them in combat.
-Skarx's Prison: Added Zol, Barbed Devil, two Bone Devils, and changed Skarx to Tetori Monk archetype. Made Zol able to be convinced to fight on PC's side with a Fame check. Made for a much more memorable encounter than plain-Jane monk and her four mooks.
-Erinyes: Made leader an advanced version.
-Hellish Cavalry: Gave each Bearded Devil 2 levels of fighter, which gave them Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, and Spirited Charge, as well as all the weapon and armor proficiencies they could need to be an actual threat. Made Paralictor Chard the target of their attacks.
-Added Burning Inn scenario: Two Chartovs and bearded devil were setting an Inn on fire. Using fire rules from "catastrophe" article in same module and Fame checks to move people (DC 35 moves 1+1 per 5 over check) combined with a fight against the fire immune devils made for a neat encounter.
-Part 7: So there's a Well of Many Worlds.. a direct two-way portal to Erebus and a focal point for all of the Council's plans... So why isn't it guarded in any way? I had issues with this, and placed a quartet of assassin devils and 'Stinking Cloud Incense' censors in the room preceding the well, and a Malbolgian Cerberi in the room containing the portal (as well as Chammady). When Vuiper went to go get Chammady for them and didn't return (thanks to the strict orders of the recently placed devils), it made for some good role-playing as disembodied voices in the smoke discussed the fate of the city.
-Part 8:For the Finale, I gave Eccardian and Melavengian Potions of Barkskin+4 to offset the point-buy of my group as well as different prepared spells for Melavengian. The fight went better than expected, with Chammady participating and getting some licks in on Eccardian before being sent to run from the Devil's fear aura. The battle went outside of the statue's head and onto its arms, with Alario eventually Bull-Rushing Eccardian off the statue to the ground below. The final blows on the Tiefling were given by Chammady (her fear removed by a potion from my wizard), yet I felt I would fulfill my player's expectations and give them one last fight, the one on the cover of the module. When Melavengian died, I had him bubble into a pool of liquid gold. When Eccardian died, I had him do a transformation coupled with Melavengian's animate golden remains covering his body, the end result being a golden statue of a Horned Devil. I then gave the party one round before the transformation was complete as Mammon made one last bid for power in the city using the remains of both as a temporary body. The ensuing fight was tough, with the one round being crucial in getting enough hits in before the thing broke bad and stunned half the party. In the end, it was a little bit of a nail biter but the PCs prevailed and went on to the final roll. In the end, they not only achieved the best possible result for the city (Independence), but also achieved leadership positions, foremost being Alario who serves as Mayor of the city. Ironically enough, the PCs decided that they wanted to see a new "Council of Thieves" set in place to govern crime within the city. Eirtein Obberigo and Alario are its leaders. Also, the city has been given the exception of forbidance with regards to the worship of a chaotic deity. In Westcrown it is now legal to worship Calistra, though no other chaotic deities are really allowed, thanks to the efforts and guile of La Fiamma Diosa Thrune. Finally, Elias (being a member of the Pathfinders) begins traveling again, seeking a means to reverse his accelerated age and trading relics in the new kingdom burgeoning in the Stolen Lands (after all, someone's buying and selling those high GP magic items that keep appearing in our campaign).
PCs finishing campaign at 12th, technically 13th if they decide to play them in the future-
Alario Jeggare: Fighter 2, Monk 2, Rogue 4, Shadowdancer 4
La Fiamma Diosa: Rogue 1, Cleric 11
Blaustein Aalfanger: Monk 12
Elias Lucca: Male Old Diviner 12
Anyways, hope this helps designers and players who are interested in this AP and what is good and not so good about it! Myself and my players all had fun and are happy to have completed a campaign start to finish. Can't wait to start DM'ing Carrion Crown!
Thank you very much for this! Excellent write-up, and I'll definitely be using some of your fixes during my campaign :)
Thank you for these detailed analyses of the AP modules. Your comments will be immensely helpful for the Council of Thieves campaign I am planning on starting this year.
One question: can you perhaps provide you redrawn maps of the Walcourt?
Very informative deconstruction :) I'd also be interested in seeing what you did with Walcourt, since I'm planning on ending my campaign there and just cutting out the sixth book and the whole Eccardian plot to make it focus more on the shadow problem.
You guys are gonna hate me, but I don't have a copy of the whole map because of the way I did it... I took a lot of my D+D tiles (which I have way too many of) arranged them into a two-story complex and covered each layer in a big sheet of plexi-glass that we have for such things. After the module was finished, its a simple matter to just pick up the tiles, so unfortunately, I don't have the map in its intact form. I do have a summarization of the changes I made though. Hope it helps a little.
A)Big opening room remained but with murder holes added and more secret doors. Secret doors had a mechanic similair to those in the module "Three Faces of Evil" from the Age of Worms AP. Basically, for the inhabitants of Walcourt, its a move action to move through and close the secret door, while for the PCs, it requires a DC 25 perception check and a the normal action for moving through a doorway. This gave the mooks a slight chance, though I still had to roll pretty hot for them.
B)Guillotine trap removed from its area and placed in the vertical shaft area (Hangman's room). I've found its always best to include cool traps in combat areas so it doesn't devolve into a "I take 20 and search this 5' area... x16". I basically made the shaft open onto the second floor without the lip (instead giving it one direction to climb out of), funneling a climbing PC directly into the trap and the thieves that guard that shaft (who are also shooting arrows, not trying to noose people, which mechanically doesn't work that well).
C)Bigger living quarters area. The fact that the major safehouse has few places to live in it kind of bugged me, so a lot of the ground floor consisted of larger living spaces for the thieves and shadow-folk connected by narrow hallways. This made it so the mooks could actually maneuver in their own area effectively. I also continued the use of secret doors as mentioned above. Most of the traps were moved into hallways.
D) Trial chamber moved upstairs. The large room with the "fighting pit" didn't really make sense from a building design standpoint, so I moved it upstairs into a converted storage room. I believe I had all of the mooks that would have been present in this chamber as corpses, victim of the chamber's newest inhabitant, the Vrylovakas (Growing tired of re-using the same mooks at this point). I wanted to have a dangerous, unstable guardians that Ilnerik called upon because of the danger the PCs pose. I also removed the pit traps in this room and kept them on the ground floor in the hallways instead.
A)Removed a few rooms with no number or description in them and used their space to increase the size of other rooms, particularly Sandor's chambers. Also, since living quarters are downstairs now, the upstairs had some room to play with.
B)Used Illusory Walls to guard the rooftop access visually from intruders. Put traps on rooftop access points (Alarm and Lightning Bolt traps, I believe.)
C)Added "the False Vault", a section of nine small interlocking rooms with illusory treasure, dimensional locks, automatic locking doors, and cloudkill traps.
D)Made Stairway that leads to basement more hidden (secret door required to find).
E)Added summoning chamber, as mentioned above.
F)Eliminated small passages in top floor of carriage house and adjoined into one larger room. (Ogre Mage needs room to fight if he gets cornered here.)
Hope that helps a little!
No prob... glad to help in any way that I can.
Rakshaka, thank you so much for writing this. I've been GMing this quest and I honestly saw the same problems with Book 1 to 5. And that is why I am so glad to see this thread before starting to GM Book 6.
My group was also more powerful than most because I convinced them to use the Point Buy system instead of the Dice rolls they used in the past. It wasn't easy but I convinced them with a 30 points buy... and I still had a player complaint that his stats were too low.
With the challenge difficulty not being there for most of Book 4 and 5, the players had their fun with the RPing I infused the AP with but without your recommended changes in Part 6, I'm sure my players would have felt like the final chapter is a big let down, leaving a bitter taste in their mouth regarding this AP.
Glad my old review is still being used! If it had been around then, there's a host of monsters from Bestiary 2-4 that I would have used. Anyways, glad to help, I'm doing the same thing with the Carrion Crown modules as I run them, so if you ever run that...
Thanks Rakshaka, I'm running this currently and I'm SERIOUSLY thinking about changing 1,2,3,5,4,6 or something like that so that it ends with a mix of the burning with the rest of the chaos in episode 6. Increase some levels of critters. I'm also ignoring the level requirements and adding levels/HD/classes to critters to make the fights tougher and to seem like a real AP run.
Rakshaka, is it too late to ask you for the details of "The Ruby of Maledov"? My group is halfway through Bastards of Erebus and I am looking for ways to smooth out the AP and tailor it to my PCs. (Your review and fixes are a big help, along with some other great recommendations on the board.)
One of my PCs is a bard actor who works in concert with a gentleman thief. (The bard distracts with his private performance while the thief burgles the manor) I have already created a side quest party for those two. Another chose the Child of Infamy campaign trait and his late brother was an acting rival of Thesing (who quite likely turned him over the Hellknights for treason, resulting in his execution). All three chose to attend Thesing's "Dowager Princess" opera and my gentleman thief snuck into the dressing room to sabotage his makeup before the show and, having seen a half-finished love letter to Calseinica, was sure to sit next to her during the play and is planning to woo her from under Thesing.
Another play, in celebration of their accomplishment, would be lovely.
Gimme 24 hours or so, I'm at work so don't have access to my notes. I think I actually had details for other plays besides that, which I'll try and find. Glad this is still helping people, and glad you've found it of use. It always surprises me how long it actually takes to right reviews (I've been doing the same thing with Carrion Crown, but per module instead of the whole AP.), but the fact that people are reading them and making even greater improvements than my own makes this whole community-thing awesome and makes the time spent well worth it.
Thanks!
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Alright, the short of it:
The Ruby of Maledov is set during Taldor's Third Army of Exploration. It revolves around the exploits of a Taldan genreal named Maledov and his victorious conquest over a cell of devil-worshipers and their source of power, only to subcomb to that very power he at first so easily defeats.
Act 2 details the truth of the ruby, that it contains the soul of a horrible fiend that tries to corrupt any that possess it. Still deluded with pride over his easy victory, the general becomes careless with the thing until it is finally handled by his daughter. This frees the fiend, who engages in a horrible game of temptation, destruction, and ruin as it jumps from his daughter to his wife. The act ends with him preparing to bargain his soul to save his family.
Act 3 is the climax of the play, where Maledov has a vision of a way out, the destruction of the ruby. As he attempts to destroy it he is intercepted by his wife and child who are alternatively possessed by the fiend. The fiend promises all manner of temptations from immortality for his daughter, unimaginable wealth (in the form of more possessed gems), and all the knowledge in the multiverse. Here the endings differ, and due to the play's oldness, no one is sure which ending the author intended, especially with the knowledge-policing that is so pervasive in Cheliax.
-Ending 1: Through the power of love for his wife and child, Maledov is able to break through the devil's hold over his loved ones and smash the ruby, ending victorious. This ending is banned in Cheliax.
-Ending 2: In his pride and greed, Maledov wishes for unlimited knowledge, thinking he can find a way out of his situation. The devil reveals it used the cultists and then abandoned them so one as strong as Maledov would take the ruby. With his new knowledge, Maledov realizes he is damned. This ends with him walking through a portal into hell, still full of the pride that brought him there. This version is the most popular in Cheliax and additions where Maledov rules in hell have been written in.
-Ending 3: Maledov makes a wish to have never have picked up the ruby. The scene cuts away, showing Maledov picking up the ruby again. This is widely believed to be the original ending but its bleak statement about the inherent greed of humanity make it vastly unpopular.
There you go, hope that helps! Couldn't find my other notes unfortunately. (I had something in mind for
...and then I realized that some of the APs that I am running are blurring together as far as memory. The other plays I speak of are backdrops for my Caliphas portion of Carrion Crown. I'll try to post them once I'm home and have access to those notes. I know that there's four of them (one is an adapted version of an Ailson Kindler tale).
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Alright, here’s some other ones I’m using as backdrop for my Carrion Crown game that could easily be transposed into theatrical Westcrown:
Island of the Beast: Writen by the Taldan phisopher Janser, this is a tale of two shipwrecked clergymen of Asmodeus and Sarenrae who are marooned on a seemingly deserted island. As the two come to grips with their differences in faith, they are silently stalked by a nameless beast, one that the two have no chance of defeating by themselves. Widely considered an allegory of the imprisonment of Rovagug, the play is somewhat popular in Cheliax.
Act 1 consists of the two priests defining their own reasons why they are marooned on an island. By the end of the first act, the two finally meet, ending with them both believing that the other is responsible for their ship-wrecking.
Act 2 consists of the two priests forming defenses against themselves, doing so as the nameless beast makes itself known. It begins stalking them and testing their defenses. Each believes the other is responsible until a moment when the Asmodean moves to confront his counterpart. He witnesses the beast attacking the Sarenrae priest and saves his life.
Act 3 consists of the two hunting the beast, realizing that it is their bonds of mortality that have not only brought them to the beast’s attention but also bolstered the connection between the two. The look past their differences, hunt down the beast in its lair, and make a boat out of its carcass, escaping the island.
The Invisible Curtain: Story of a ruthless noble scion who aspires to kill his parents and take their estate. When he moves to murder them in their sleep, their bodies are covered in bright blue butterflies that move to interfere with him. Despite the clear symbolic warning, he kills them nonetheless, shoves their bodies to the side, and then sleeps in their bloody bed. This consists of the first act. He then experiences a separate dream in each of the next four acts, ending each act with him seemingly waking up. In each of these, he experiences terror, humility, regret, and finally remorse. In the final, sixth act, he escapes from dreaming forever by dying.
The play is widely considered a philosophical thought experiment debating the nature of reality, what is known, what is dream, and the similarity between death and a dream. The play was believed to have been penned by a nameless Desnan priest in the darkness following Earthfall.
Cabin of Echoes: An adapted work of the author Ailson Kindler, this play takes place in a cabin inherited by a family. A series of hauntings takes place, revealing tragedies that took place when the cabin was first built. The new inhabitants of the cabin have their own issues; the husband served in the first Taldan crusade and had a dalliance with an elven maiden while his wife was at home, while she had a similar situation with a local ranger who she sought out for protection. The two keep this secret from each other until the spirits of the cabin, a pair of star-crossed lovers, possess them and begin re-enacting their own suicidal downfall. The biggest controversy are the fate of her children; in the novel, they disappear, never to reappear, while in the play the two return from the woods at the last moment to remind their parents how much they love them, snapping them out of the spell. The play is condemned by the original work’s author, citing embellishment over what she considers to be a semi-factual account of the paranormal.
The Knight Errant A story of a clumsy, Taldan knight who is humiliated and ousted by his own squire. He is exiled to the woods where he encounters a spirit of the forest, a white stag. Through watching it, the knight is able to learn grace and balance, eventually mastering the bow. When he nearly sacrifices his life in defense of the stag (being hunted by his own squire), he is gifted with flawless grace. Through this, he is able to retake his home. He forgives his squire for his wrongdoings and even takes him back under his wing.
While the author is unknown, its origin of Andoran places its writing sometime within the last century.
Hope some of that helps, or at least inspires you to improve on what I’ve got there.
These are brilliant! Thank you so much for taking the time to share them. They will definitely come in handy for my group.
Glad to help!
Which module? If its the second one, allow me to fuel your paranoia. Our popularity score with no dice or math tricks, ended at 666. No joke. One of the few times I've been freaked out running a role-playing game...
But if you have legitimate fear about any of the modules, voice them and I'll give my 2 coppers.
Another DM here, your review is worth its weight in astral diamonds, my notes are now covered in your additions and re-writes!
I am glad people are still finding this useful! In hindsight, I was pretty scathing of "Thrice Damned Prince", but to be fair, I feel that being brutally honest helps sometimes to encourage growth. Hopefully no one took offense, my intention was to have the authors take a step back and examine why things didn't work the way they were (or weren't) written from a group's perspective.
Calikang in the enclosed space is brutal if it chain-lightnings in the tight quarters.
Somehow I feel the spot there needs a little more room, having all that treasure and a huge monster seems counterproductive.
Something our DM did is cut off sources for the more expensive items by having the stores where we bought/commissioned things burned down. No holy weapons(except for smites by the paladin) or banes. Potions and upgrades to existing equipment were possible depending on the item. Heck, we didn't get to do any shenanigans with the Philosopher's Stone due to the lack of lead to get.
F) Popularity Mechanic is flawed: ...I like the idea of "spending Fame points to make stuff happen", yet having the PCs final score be based on the amount of unspent points feels like it punishes PCs for interacting with events and people...
Trimmed a bit to remove spoilers.
I appreciate this is an old thread, but given it's one of the more current ones and people do still run this AP, I thought it worth commenting on this one, as it does bear some consideration.
In spoilers, naturally:
Fame: Page 9 of Twice-Damned Prince describes that all popularity checks are made using the number of Fame points the party has at the start of the Adventure.
Specifically: 1d10 + Initial Fame + Cha + Leadership modifier (+4)
A party can start book 6 with between 7 and 32 Fame points, though the lower end almost requires deliberate effort on their part to do quite that badly... and frankly I wouldn't want them running the show either at that point :P
Popularity: Certain events award Popularity points, though some cost Fame point to do so. Typically a miniquest gives 1 PP, though some give more. Why this is only explained halfway through the module is beyond me... but it is.
There are 25 Popularity points that may be earned throughout the book. One of which requires spending 2 Fame points to get.
Spending Fame Points: There isn't a consistent theme to where Fame points can be spent, unfortunately.
- In one or two cases (Part 2, for example), spending Fame points is practically mandatory in order to 'seal the deal' on an activity the players had been working on and get the rewards.
- In a handful of cases, spending Fame points is something to improve matters for the others in the city, such as discouraging further arson attacks on citizenry. These, in my opinion, should result in bonus Popularity Points, but as-written do not.
- In most cases, spending Fame points is there to make things easier on the PCs: Giving them allies (in a couple of instances), discouraging assassination attempts on them and so forth.
Ultimately you can spend up to 30 Fame points if you really try, but generally you're expected to spend 10-13 to net +1 PP and a +4 bonus to Cha checks (including Fame)
The Tally: The final tally is based on a Fame check (using your initial Fame points), your popularity points and lastly, any unspent Fame points. It is this last point that the OP has an objection to... and I sort of agree with him.
Assuming Cha 14, no Circlet of Persuasion, no leadership feat, but a reasonable effort on acquiring Fame and Popularity points (30 initial Fame points, all 25 PP), and a party of 4, you're looking at:
1d20 + 30 + 2 (cha) + 4 (nobles) + 6 (assist) = Average 52
Plus 25 PP
Plus 20 unspent Fame
For a tally around 97.
High Charisma characters, circlets of persuasion, or getting the NPC members of the Children of Westcrown to assist (if the GM permits it, that's up to +26) can then push this over the line.
Suggested Ammendments:
- In the "Playing with Fire" event, reduce the Fame point expenditure to 2, and have it grant 3pp
- In Part 2, reduce the Fame point costs from 5 to 3 and 10 to 6, respectively.
- In Part 3, reduce the Fame point costs from 3 to 2. If they spent 5 Fame points, have them gain an additional 4PP.
- In Noble Lure, reduce the Fame point cost from 2 to 1, to give +2PP.
- In Rolan the Tinkerer, add 2000gp to the Fame point cost, but have the presence of the 'toys' give +2PP as clear display of the strength of their heroes gives the citizenry hope in the anarchy.
- In The Heretic's Ghost, have the reward include an additional +4 to all Charisma based checks (including Fame) for the remainder of the adventure.
The above ensures that, except where spending Fame points for personal convenience, there is an overall slight gain in the end result of the Adventure Path.
Alternatively: If you catch this early in the AP, try reviewing the Fame Point awards, as they are not remotely consistent:
Book 1: Up to 7
Book 2: Up to 5
Book 3: Up to 4
Book 4: Up to 6
Book 5: Up to 10, half of which comes from returning stolen goods.
The concept that a total of 20% (1 in Book 1, 5 in Book 5) of your Fame points come from returning stolen goods back to their owners, and only 10% of your Fame comes from fighting an Infernal Duke to save the city from destruction... is a little strange, in my opinion.
Adjusting the numbers and giving PCs more opportunities to earn extra Fame points (akin to the "More Heroics" section of Book 1) means that if the PCs are invested and willing to work for the future of Westcrown, they can enter into Book 6 with significantly more Fame Points than normally able, and as such make the end result more dependent on their actions than their gear and feats.
We are now heading into Mother of Flies and I'm heading your advice on the Totemrix. In addition, to encourage my PCs to combine the artifacts and nullify the Totemrix, I plan to have it react much as the Morrowfall did after Bisby went insane: it will pulse with darkness and continue to summon shadows, while also creating rifts to shadow with more and more powerful beings emerging to threaten Westcrown.