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Light Rays are extremely powerful.
I attempted this with my male Healer from Miniatures Handbook in my 3.5/Pathfinder tabletop homebrew game. The GM vetoed it because he thought the Lantern Archon didn't have enough hit points, so that it would be a "one-shot kill".
We settled on a Hound Archon instead. The Healer's Companion became a viable bodyguard for the offense-lacking character. Later the Healer took the Contemplative prestige class from Complete Divine, with Good and Archon as his new domains, while the Hound Archon took levels in Ranger and Paladin.
Just to spell it out a bit more:
LG Small outsider (archon, extraplanar, good, lawful)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +4
Aura aura of menace (DC 13)
AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+4 natural, +1 size; +2 deflect vs. evil)
hp 13 (2d10+2)
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +0; +4 vs. poison, +2 resistance vs. evil
DR 10/evil; Immune electricity, petrification
Speed fly 60 ft. (perfect)
Ranged 2 light rays +3 ranged touch (1d6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 3rd):
At Will—aid, continual flame, detect evil, greater teleport (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only)
Str 1, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 10
Base Atk +2; CMB –4; CMD 6
Feats Improved Initiative
Skills Diplomacy +5, Fly +14, Knowledge (planes) +3, Perception +4, Sense Motive +5
Languages Celestial, Draconic, Infernal; truespeech
SQ gestalt
So we have a perfect flyer with 60 foot movement and two attacks that completely bypass DR, SR, Resistances and the like. What's more these are ranged attacks so it doesn't require closing in which makes the Lantern Archon that much safer. In addition he has DR 10/Evil which isn't readily bypassed except by specific creatures or +4 weapons -- which is fairly late game.
In addition he has at will continual flame (a potential economy breaker for some) and greater teleport (a much more serious contender) in addition to at will Aid (giving 1d8+you caster level hp as temp hp). His Aura of menance is HD related and therefore will increase with your leveling. The immunities aren't quite as useful as they could be however they still aren't bad at all.
Now you take this Archon and give him to a beast bonded witch for example... that happens to go eldritch knight. The witch gives up a few feats and vastly improves on the archon's rays by providing precise shot, better BAB and rapid shot (so 3 feats total after point blank shot). Throw a little buffing down with righteous might or divine favor perhaps a haste and the little bugger is shooting 4 rays around with bonus damage in addition to a lot of stuff being bypassed.
Now I've spent... meh 20 minutes going over this -- imagine how much worse it could be if someone spent a day on it.
DR-ignoring ranged touch attacks mounted on a fast, highly-maneuverable flying platform are pretty awesome before a single portable hole turns them into a greater teleport bus for a whole party.
Yeah it ignores DR and Spell Resistance, but it's only 1d6 damage at a max range of 30 feet. Not. That. Impressive.
And don't expect AC 15 and half of a Wizard's HP to keep it alive.
The DR makes a bigger issue than you think Nicos, and the rays can be turned up more, in addition to the anti-attack aura and at Will Aid ability.
However I just noticed that they lack the magic circle of protection from evil that most archons have and that the magic circle isn't a function of being an archon. However the lantern archon is listed as having a +2 deflection bonus versus evil and the +2 resistance bonus vs evil that comes with the magic circle of protection from evil.
So it looks like it might need errata'ed.
Please note that that damage will bust through even DR/epic or Dr/-, and you can get more rays.
Now is it 100%? No -- but as it stands it is more powerful than what is currently available with other improved familiars.
The problem isn't when a straight wizard takes the lantern archon as a familiar -- it's all the corner cases that can be hit with it too.
No more so than any other flying creature, also I'm not so sure the Lantern archon can't use a wand.
Now with all that being said -- 3.5 did allow for the lantern archon being a familiar, and if your GM is alright with it I don't really think you'll kill the game any more than you could (over all) have done so with any other familiar.
Most the time it comes down to the player more than the options at the player's disposal.
No more so than any other flying creature, also I'm not so sure the Lantern archon can't use a wand.You cannot turn off the light from the archon, you can not hide it in your clothes.
about the wand, i do no know, can the archon manipulate physical object, lift wights? if the anwers is yes then it can use wands.
On the stealth -- It's called a lantern archon... but nothing states it actually gives off light. Having one beside you in a pitch black room provides *nothing* unless it uses its continual flame spell. Presumably it could target itself with this and allow itself to glow if it wanted but such can be dismissed at will and then allow for it to stealth just like any other tiny creature.
On the wands -- yeah they have a strength score and aren't incorporeal so they could hold the wand.
" As a swift action, a lantern archon can dampen its light to that of a candle for 1 round. Only death can extinguish this light "On the wands -- yeah they have a strength score and aren't incorporeal so they could hold the wand.No more so than any other flying creature, also I'm not so sure the Lantern archon can't use a wand.You cannot turn off the light from the archon, you can not hide it in your clothes.
Ah I see it buried in the text. So a swift action to put it down to a candle. Well I can hide a candle, and I imagine a lantern archon could manage it as well, especially since cover is still needed to hide. Heck got a human in the party? Simply sit on the end of the sunrod or something. A darkness spell on the archon would allow him to move around with the light hidden, among other options.
Wasn't the Lantern Archon a familiar option in some of the 3.5e splatbooks? I'm not sure, but I think I heard of something like that in the Book of Exalted Deeds.
Reaper Miniatures
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Please note that that damage will bust through even DR/epic or Dr/-, and you can get more rays.
Where does it state this? I don't see anything indicating that the light rays bypass DR at all. I have an Oracle that summons a Lantern Archon as his first actions in most fights, but the 2x 1d6 rays which seldom miss (I do roll low sometimes) aren't superwonderful. I just don't see where you're getting that they bypass DR.
I want to play it correctly, and If I've missed that detail, I should like to show my GM.
A lantern archon can fire beams of light to damage foes. These light rays have a maximum range of 30 feet. This attack overcomes damage reduction of any type.
As Cheapy pointed out, it is explicitly stated in the ability itself. Very last sentence.
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About turning off the lights, I don't really think the Lantern Archon would be really down for sneaking about. It's a LG creature and I've come to associate stealth with anything but being LG. It'd be like having a sneaky paladin. Not that the Archon would be as bold as to present itself like a silly paladin would, but it wouldn't be skulking about trying to hide itself.
That's ridiculous. Are you going to make a paladin lose their abilities for sneaking past an ogre?
Lawful Stupid paladins are only a thing if players misread the text.
Considering that the three lantern archons Rob summoned in our climactic Shadows Under Sandpoint campaign big boss battle really helped turn the tide against a 10th-level villain, yeah, lantern archons are really powerful compared to other improved familiars.
The utility of a lantern archon vastly outweighs the other angelic companions. The greater teleport at-will makes planning and strategic uses of resources a thing of the past.
"We're in the middle of a dungeon, trapped, must sneak along so we dont wake up the 50 mummies guarding the place... welp, here's some gp Ol' Lantie, go teleport into the Black Markets of Katapesh and buy us a scroll of silence! Off ya go!"
Cant' imps do that?
Imps have greater teleport at will?Cant' imps do that?The utility of a lantern archon vastly outweighs the other angelic companions. The greater teleport at-will makes planning and strategic uses of resources a thing of the past.
"We're in the middle of a dungeon, trapped, must sneak along so we dont wake up the 50 mummies guarding the place... welp, here's some gp Ol' Lantie, go teleport into the Black Markets of Katapesh and buy us a scroll of silence! Off ya go!"
I just double checked. It appears not. I must have the brain worms.
Because light has physical substance (it is stopped by solid objects) and they aren't light archons they are lantern archons.
No more so than any other flying creature, also I'm not so sure the Lantern archon can't use a wand.
Quasit. Perma invisibility.
Considering that the three lantern archons Rob summoned in our climactic Shadows Under Sandpoint campaign big boss battle really helped turn the tide against a 10th-level villain, yeah, lantern archons are really powerful compared to other improved familiars.
3 cr 2s make a CR 5 encounter themselves. So, yeah, of course it would.
Lanter archons>golems which is a problem to me, but not a big one.If you change certain animal companions from their base versions to be available as animal companions, why can't you make a tweaked Lantern Archon to be available as an improved familiar?
No more so than any other flying creature, also I'm not so sure the Lantern archon can't use a wand.Quasit. Perma invisibility.
However it's only invisibility not greater invisibility.
A Summoner in the party calling Lantern Archons was the only thing which put down a Shadow Demon which was reducing our party to a pulp in a certain Paizo AP. It is a good creature to summon against certain menaces, but definitely it would be too powerful to have it around as a permanent (familiar) fixture at lvl 7.
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However it's only invisibility not greater invisibility.No more so than any other flying creature, also I'm not so sure the Lantern archon can't use a wand.Quasit. Perma invisibility.
Yeah, the quasit's invisibility isn't so much to use as a major tactical advantage as it is for walking down the street without everyone shouting "Hey, you got a demon on your shoulder!"
Although give him a Summon Monster wand.
Did anyone notice the Archon's teleport ability only works on itself plus 50lbs?
Did anyone notice the Archon's teleport ability only works on itself plus 50lbs?
Which again is plenty if you have a portable hole. everyone goes in the portable hole, the lantern archon holds it and teleports. Then the lantern archon opens the hole and everyone gets out.
Beyond that 50 Lbs is enough for him to do a shopping run for you in the middle of a dungeon.
huh, i've never heard of a portable hole. I suppose it's like a bag of holding *shrugs*
What are the stats for a harbinger archon?
Aura strong conjuration; CL 12thSlot —; Price 20,000 gp; Weight —
DescriptionA portable hole is a circle of cloth spun from the webs of a phase spider interwoven with strands of ether and beams of starlight, resulting in a portable extradimensional space. When opened fully, a portable hole is 6 feet in diameter, but it can be folded up to be as small as a pocket handkerchief. When spread upon any surface, it causes an extradimensional space 10 feet deep to come into being. This hole can be picked up from inside or out by simply taking hold of the edges of the cloth and folding it up. Either way, the entrance disappears, but anything inside the hole remains, traveling with the item.
The only air in the hole is that which enters when the hole is opened. It contains enough air to supply one Medium creature or two Small creatures for 10 minutes. The cloth does not accumulate weight even if its hole is filled. Each portable hole opens on its own particular nondimensional space. If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in that place. Both the bag and the cloth are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, the portable hole and bag of holding being destroyed in the process.
Editor's Note: Portable hole uses the terms "nondimensional" and "extradimensional" interchangeably which suggests they are just different terms for the same concept.
Construction RequirementsCraft Wondrous Item, plane shift; Cost 10,000 gp
Granted it is expensive for one character to own early... but if every party member pitches in for it the cost is only 4,000 gp each.
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Since the lantern archon doesn't have hands (it's a glowing orb), how could it go shopping? Even if it said,
"Excuse me shopkeep, could I purchase that scroll of break enchantment, oh, and by the way, could you drape it over me?"
How would it carry payment?
I don't see how it could go shopping, teleport the party in a portable hole, etc, if it had no way to carry anything.
Its light rays alone are enough to overpower it for a familiar though.
It also doesn't fit the pattern of outsider improved familiars that Paizo has established of granting commune 1/week.
I don't see where it says anywhere that it doesn't have hands, or where the rules say the lantern archon doesn't have the ability to carry or lift anything.
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I don't see where it says anywhere that it doesn't have hands, or where the rules say the lantern archon doesn't have the ability to carry or lift anything.
The same place that the rules don't say that horses can't climb ladders. Somethings are common sense based on a creature's basic shape. The rules similarly don't say that humans don't have 7 tentacles with crab claws at the ends of them, but if you read the description of humans and look at the illustrations of them in the game, you can pretty safely make that assumption.
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So what you are saying is it doesn't?
Let me put it another way.
Where are you going to critically hit a ball of light? Obviously you can since it isn't an ooze or incorporeal or an elemental, but where and how are you going to do it? The illustration and description give the impression that there is little there to critically hit but you still can since mechanically it has nothing stopping you from doing so.
How does a naga cast spells without hands? Or hold objects like wands? It has spell casting power but obviously lacks hands from the description but still manages to hold things, move and cast spells.
Perhaps it's much like the pictures of pixies in the past where they simply looked like balls of light. The illustration and description tells us what we see but doesn't tell us what they are actually capable of.