For number 3 how does this affect you mechanically?
I don't like a new book or errata making things invalid by way of changing non-gamebreaking issues.
My wizard now has to weild a quaterstaff in both hands which means i have no free hands for components.
Hmmm. Staff of Power. A 5 pound stick with an orb on top of it.
I'm guessing that the orb weighs more than a pound too.
Which would make the stick a c**b.
I don't like a new book or errata making things invalid by way of changing non-gamebreaking issues.
My wizard now has to weild a quaterstaff in both hands which means i have no free hands for components.
I was asking why does it have to be a quaterstaff instead of a club(reskinned as a staff)?
Honestly though, its just a stick.
Whatever you call it; club, quarterstaff or stick.
You should be calling it "Staff" and not trying to use "quarterstaff" since that is the only weapon/item with staff in its name.
NO.
Some are clubs, rods, poles, canes or sticks.
Please go read the Staff of power QM please it is a +2 quarterstaff in its description.
The ruling now makes a because thats the way i built him thats what he uses.
Why does your fighter use his choice of weapon or armor or even hair product because its waht he likes.
Wraith my main issue is anything which by virtue of existing doesn't fix an existing issue and yet kills flavor is bad.
The problem is mainly with the wield vs carry rule for bonded objects anything that requires two hands bones a wizard for even considering that includes an arcane archer as mentioned before.
The definition of wield has been a problem since the rules were first written.
So Sayeth TOZ So It Hath Been Written.
Er....Hmmmmm......AH
So It Hath Been Dicussed And Considered
We were talking about the issue of wizards having to "Wield" thier Arcane Bond Item
They have always had to wield them. This is not a new thing.
But this changes the mechanics in play for those using Double Weapons
Is the tea from Long Island?
Qstaff was always a double weapon. Arcane bond listed staff and weapon. If your staff was a weapon then you should have been using those rules anyhow. You can have a staff and it not be a qstaff.
I am aware that a SoP has in its description that it is also a +2 Quarterstaff.
However, if you look at the picture on pg 493 it is not much bigger than the largest rods which are 2-3 feet long.
A typical staff measures from 4-7 feet long, 2-3 inches thick, and about 5 lbs.
A typical staff is like a walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel(club).
Sounds like the designers need to errata the SoP so that in its description it states it is "also a +2 cudgel".
Then everyone can complain about weather or not cudgels are clubs or staves or quarterstaves.
The Staves of Power & of the Woodlands are the only ones in the Core Rulebook that function as weapons (+2 quarterstaves).
The rest are just "Staves".
Is the tea from Long Island?
while yummy. That contains no actual tea.
But this changes the mechanics in play for those using Double WeaponsActually, it just clarifies the way the rules work. The original reading intended the same thing, but was ambiguous about it.
Pretty much this. Yep it changed nothing. All it did was clear up the wording.
Page 144—In the Weapon Qualities section, in the Special section, in the Double paragraph in the second sentence, replace “A double weapon can be wielded as a one-handed weapon” with “You can choose to wield one end of a double weapon two-handed”.
Seems like a big change going from Wielded as a one-hander to Can wield one end two handed makes a big difference.
You can still wield a two-handed weapon with one hand and take the -2 penalty to attack rolls with it; problem solved.
The rules don't allow you to wield a two handed weapon in one hand unless it is made for a creature one size category smaller than you, and in that case the -2 is not for using the weapon one-handed, but for using a weapon that is the inappropriate size.
Seems like a big change going from Wielded as a one-hander to Can wield one end two handed makes a big difference.
Page 144—In the Weapon Qualities section, in the Special section, in the Double paragraph in the second sentence, replace “A double weapon can be wielded as a one-handed weapon” with “You can choose to wield one end of a double weapon two-handed”.
The rules always worked that way, but because it was worded badly some people misread it. The errata just changed the wording to match the intent.
The wielder of a staff of power gains a +2 luck bonus to AC and on saving throws. The staff is a +2 quarterstaff, and its wielder may use it to smite opponents. If 1 charge is expended (as a free action), the staff causes double damage (×3 on a critical hit) for 1 round.
So:
It is a staff.
It is also a Quarterstaff.
Ergo it can be a staff and not be a quarterstaff.
Finally it is used as a staff -- and can be used as a quarterstaff. But this also means that it can be used as a staff or a quarterstaff.
So on the rounds you want to cast use it as a staff. On the rounds you want to hit things use it as a quarterstaff.
May have misunderstood it but i thought you could one hand a double weapon but were limited on which end attacked each round.
Don't have books handy and the pfsrd agrees with that assumption don't know if the prd has been changed yet but here is what is says.
Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
@AS thanks that actually helps me get my mind around this one a bit since that works on that is there any ruling on treating a Bonded object as both a "Staff" and a "Quarterstaff" if its not a specific item with that delineation?
May have misunderstood it but i thought you could one hand a double weapon but were limited on which end attacked each round.
Don't have books handy and the pfsrd agrees with that assumption don't know if the prd has been changed yet but here is what is says.
Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
It never says you can use it one-handed.
One option is to use it two-handed, but you can use either end.
The other option is to use it as a double weapon which involves TWF'ing.
The part I bolded is telling you how it works when using it as with TWF(two weapon fighting).
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The thing is it used to be you couldn't take a longbow or greatsword as your bonded item because "wielding" it required two hands. I remember because I had an arcane archer I wanted to build using this niftiness.
FAQ.
Exactly, the issue was the term "wield" was used, saying a weapon must be wielded to have any affect, in the bonded item description, meaning that in order for it to be used to cast a spell, it must be held in a way that would allow its use normally.
I've got to go do Christmassy stuff now so I will will make it official.
I, Moragan,
Queen of Moreland,
from the Castle Staghart.
Queen of the Mores!
Defeater of the Stag Lord!
Sovereign of all the Stolen Lands!
Grant that the Player Characters of the being known throughtout these boards as Talonhawke.
That:
If they be in rightful possession of any Magicical Device, Staff-like in shape and Weapon-like in use.
That:
If such Magicical Devices are indeed Arcanely Bonded to said Player Characters.
That:
Such Arcanely Bonded Magicial Devices may be wielded at no penalty with only One Hand, thus enabling the Other Hand, to do Other Useful Things.
Signed,
Queen Moragan
(Please print this out and give to your GM to be approved.)
Merry Christmas
May have misunderstood it but i thought you could one hand a double weapon but were limited on which end attacked each round.
Don't have books handy and the pfsrd agrees with that assumption don't know if the prd has been changed yet but here is what is says.
Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
I was talking about this bolded part and the part in italics.
Sigh. Is there simply no more common sense in the game? This is why I don't play PFS: the DMs are rote automatons reciting the rules instead of using their common sense.
Of course a quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon. No, it cannot be wielded in one hand. But you certainly hold it in one hand while casting a spell with the other. Common sense should trump whatever the rulebook or the errata says.
Master Arminas
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Huh, so from what I'm reading on these boards, the original wording "may be used as a one-handed weapon" NEVER meant it could be used to make an attack with only one hand holding it.
In that case the errata was DEFINITELY needed.
Still, the change from wield to held is a necessary change to the rules that I hope gets put soon into the FAQ.
I was talking about this bolded part and the part in italics.May have misunderstood it but i thought you could one hand a double weapon but were limited on which end attacked each round.
Don't have books handy and the pfsrd agrees with that assumption don't know if the prd has been changed yet but here is what is says.
Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
Weilding basically means holding it in a ready to use position which is different than just having it in your hand. SKR defined that on the boards recently. I will try to find thd post.
The part i cited says Wielded Wraith.
@master arminas If the item is your bonded item and is a weapon you have to Wield not Hold to cast without making concentration checks.
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Pazio hates Staffs, they made them good then priced them so high no one can buy a staff in PFS and arcane casters cannot craft staff hence Pazio hates staffs the most Iconic WIzard item cannot be had by an arcane caster in PFS.
Why would a arcane caster use a staff as a weapon other than to deliver a touch spell to much chance of breaking you uber priced staff of blasting.
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I brought up this issue on these boards a while back. IIRC, one of the developers commented that the two-handed bonded weapon was indeed intended to not work, to prevent melee types from dipping wizard for the free masterwork greatsword or whatnot. Quarterstaff-wielding wizards were collateral damage, but making wizards choose a one-hander instead was deemed preferrable to Eldritch Knights and Arcane Archers who got free masterwork weapons out of the deal.
I know "wizard with staff" is a popular trope, but hey, so is "wizard with wand" and how many Arcane Bonded wands do you see?
The part i cited says Wielded Wraith.
@master arminas If the item is your bonded item and is a weapon you have to Wield not Hold to cast without making concentration checks.
Yep that is the rules. Can't disagree. Will it be played out that way in my game? Nope. Wizards and staffs are PB&J. Someone comes up and complains that I'm breaking the rules? They can kiss my . . . Rule Zero. And somehow, I don't think a bunch of tournament DMs from PFS are going to come to my house and demand I hand over my Pathfinder books.
Master Arminas
Some people however play PFS this isnt about houserules thats not the issue.
Check Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus' link. That should satisfy overly-semantic readings of the rules.
The definition of wield has been a problem since the rules were first written.
There are lots of things like that, and I hope Paizo would look at things like melee touch attacks before wielding...
Weilding basically means holding it in a ready to use position which is different than just having it in your hand. SKR defined that on the boards recently. I will try to find thd post.I was talking about this bolded part and the part in italics.May have misunderstood it but i thought you could one hand a double weapon but were limited on which end attacked each round.
Don't have books handy and the pfsrd agrees with that assumption don't know if the prd has been changed yet but here is what is says.
Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
Here you go.
Wielding means "actively trying to use the item," and is normally only used in the context of weapons or weapon-like objects such as rods, wands, and so on.
Otherwise, it's just an item you're holding/carrying.
And if you're not holding/carrying/bearing it, you're probably wearing it, or it's stowed in a sheath or backpack.
And if you're not wielding, holding/carrying/bearing, or wearing the item, it's probably unattended.
If you're wielding a sword, you're trying to hit people with it.
If you're holding or carrying a sword, you just have it on your person, perhaps because your fighter buddy dropped it and you didn't want him to lose it.
You probably can't wear a sword.
If you're not wielding the sword, holding/carrying/bearing the sword, or wearing the sword, it's on the ground.
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Seems to me that if your bonded item is a two-handed object, and you basically can't cast without it, then you're probably able to carry out the somatic components of your spells while holding your item - basically you've learned to make said item part of your normal spell casting.
What, exactly, that means in game terms, I'm not sure. You're not going to cast and melded attack in the same round. But you apparently must "wield" your quarter staff with two hands. It seems like either simply holding in one hand (and not actually using it as a weapon so no worries about attack penalties) would be enough, or maybe the specific two-hands-occupied-but-that's-ok-cause-it's-a-bonded-item situation supersedes the general rule that wizards must have a hand free.