Other Pathfinder Iconic Heroes

[Rasief]

Just received my Beginner Box Heroes today and I have to say they're really awesome. Do you people know if is there a plan to relase the remaining heroes soon? I want to see them, specially Amiri (Barbarian), Seelah (Paladin), and Sajan (Monk).

[Ross Byers]

Seelah will be in the upcoming Heroes and Monsters set.

[Vic Wertz]

We intend to put one or two iconics in each major release for the foreseeable future.

[George Velez]

Vic Wertz wrote:

We intend to put one or two iconics in each major release for the foreseeable future.

Vic,

Are you planning on releasing them in the similar order to as when each iconic class came out, for example Iconics from the Core Books first, then from the APG, then UM… and so forth?

In any case releasing the Iconics minis little by little might take a while, would it be possible to make an Iconic Pawn set in the same format as the four that came in with the PFBB? I ask because I use pre-generated Iconic PCs to run demos using the PFBB, and having more Iconic pawns would be very useful to me.

[gbonehead]

Please, please, please, please move the gunslinger iconic to an early spot. There's no minis whatsoever that support a gunslinger.

Though a male one would be keen too.

[Vic Wertz]

George Velez wrote:

Are you planning on releasing them in the similar order to as when each iconic class came out, for example Iconics from the Core Books first, then from the APG, then UM… and so forth?

We'll be selecting iconics largely based on the theme for each set. (For example, the next set is Rise of the Runelords, so you can expect that we'll choose iconics that best match that theme.) Unless theme dictates otherwise, though, I'd personally expect to see most or all of the Core Rulebook iconics before we see iconics from later books.

George Velez wrote:

In any case releasing the Iconics minis little by little might take a while, would it be possible to make an Iconic Pawn set in the same format as the four that came in with the PFBB? I ask because I use pre-generated Iconic PCs to run demos using the PFBB, and having more Iconic pawns would be very useful to me.

We actually think spreading them out over many sets is probably better for sales. (Also, there's only one iconic left that actually has a class that we've worked up for the Beginner Box; that's Amiri.)

[Matthew Morris]

Aside,

As the iconics trickle out in sets, can you make a 'booster pack' that is iconics? Kind of like the all goblin box that we hear bandied about?

While I wouldn't (currently) have need for them* it might be nice for the kids.

*

Spoiler:

currently meaning having money to pay for them, despite putting $130 into my dog this morning

[Vic Wertz]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Aside,

As the iconics trickle out in sets, can you make a 'booster pack' that is iconics? Kind of like the all goblin box that we hear bandied about?

If I understand correctly, you're asking for an Encounter Pack that contains only iconics; that is, a single product that collects a bunch of the iconic minis, to be released after we've released a few sets? That may be possible, but there are a few things that make it a bit tricky.

Remember that part of our strategy for commonalities in the random sets is that, generally, minis you need a bunch of will be common, minis you need a couple of will be uncommon, and minis you need just one of will be rare. Therefore, iconics will be rare minis. Rereleasing a bunch of rares in a box set would therefore undermine the original rarity, which would really annoy some folks who paid rare mini prices for their iconics.

Now, that would be mitigated a bit by one of our strategies for Encounter Packs, which is that we don't want to rerelease minis exactly as they appeared before—Encounter Packs will contain significant repaints and resculpts. But because resculpts costs a *lot* more than repaints, part of the value proposition is that Encounter Packs will generally have more repaints than resculpts. Repainting the iconics is a tricky proposition, though, since their color scheme is part of their iconic nature, so that would mean we'd have to do mainly resculpts for such a set, and that can get pretty expensive.

Actually, there's another reason why the iconics will be rare figures. The value proposition of randomized boosters basically lets us subsidize more complex minis in the rare slots by averaging out their higher costs with less complex minis produced in higher volume. Which is a complicated way of saying "we can do more paint steps on rare figures," and we really like that our iconics can have a lot of paint steps.

So, we're talking about an Encounter Pack that necessarily includes a lot of resculpts and a lot of paint steps. That means it would have to have a higher per-mini price than all of the other Encounter Packs. I'm not going to say that makes it impossible—after all, we did do the first Beginner Box Heroes set—but I will say that it makes it tricky.

[Matthew Morris]

Thank you for the (very) detailed reply, Vic.

Yes a 'box o' Iconics' was exactly what I was thinking of.

Right now I'm hoping for either two of those Iomade half elves in my case, I'm betting my niece will love one.

[Sara Marie]

gbonehead wrote:

Please, please, please, please move the gunslinger iconic to an early spot. There's no minis whatsoever that support a gunslinger.

Though a male one would be keen too.

I was really excited to see this one who will be perfect for my PFS gunslinger. Its still on preorder though.

[gbonehead]

Sara Marie wrote:

gbonehead wrote:

Please, please, please, please move the gunslinger iconic to an early spot. There's no minis whatsoever that support a gunslinger.

Though a male one would be keen too.

I was really excited to see this one who will be perfect for my PFS gunslinger. Its still on preorder though.

:(

Also female, and, unfortunately, unpainted. *sigh*

Not for me, I don't have the time to paint minis, given the two campaigns I'm running ...

[Sara Marie]

Me being the genius that I am, completely missed the fact that the thread was about prepaint minis. Sorry if I got hopes up with my post.

[gbonehead]

Sara Marie wrote:

Me being the genius that I am, completely missed the fact that the thread was about prepaint minis. Sorry if I got hopes up with my post.

Heck! If it was a sufficiently cool metal mini, I'd probably get it anyways and see if I could get someone to paint it for me; a few of my friends still paint minis.

Come to think of it, I bet there's Deadlands minis out there ...

[Cpt_kirstov]

gbonehead wrote:

Come to think of it, I bet there's Deadlands minis out there ...

Also Reaper's chronoscape line has a good amount of wild west and gun-toting minis

[George Velez]

[Note: I write this as I am halfway through a horrible night shift, please forgive any errors in math, iconic information, and understanding of previous information.]

Vic, thanks for the detailed information posted above, lots to think about. Some ideas and comments with regards to the points you bring up, and some brainstorming below.

Key Points:

[11] Core Classes:
Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard

[10] Base Classes:
Alchemist, Cavalier, Gunslinger, Inquisitor, Magus, Ninja, Oracle, Samurai, Summoner, Witch

1- From the Pathfinder Beginner Box Heroes Miniatures Set ($12.99)
Kyra, Female Human Cleric
Valeros, Male Human Fighter
Merisiel, Female Elf Rogue
Ezren, Male Human Wizard

So $12.99/4= $3.25 per mini on average, about $0.25 for the PFBB pawns using Augies Games Online as a baseline.

2- From the Pathfinder Battles: Heroes & Monsters set (variable price):
Seelah, Human Paladin (singles price unknown)

3- From the Pathfinder Battles: Rise of the Runelords set (? price):
None announced; reasonable chance for 1-2 Iconics from the core rule book and/or that match the ROTRL theme.

4- Set size: “We actually think spreading them out over many sets is probably better for sale.”

5- Release schedule: “Unless theme dictates otherwise, though, I'd personally expect to see most or all of the Core Rulebook iconics before we see iconics from later books.”

6-Iconics minis are in the “rare” category of rarity, of higher quality of paints/sculpts, and any Iconic only sets must not be of a loss of value/cost to people who get them via the normal miniature line, thus a higher initial price point is expected.

Brainstorming ideas:

A) Considering that Paizo has announced a line of Bestiary 1 and ROTRL pawn sets for 2012, it is reasonable to create an Iconics Pawn set, if enough people are willing to buy it?

To gauge the profitability of such a set ask for pre-orders in advance with the clear note that if X amount of pre-orders are placed in Y amount of time, the set will be made. If not enough pre-orders are placed, then you know it is not worth the effort and time?

We already have four classes as pawns, surely they can enjoy their co-adventurers company on the battlefield… :)

It would be nice to have iconic pawns AND iconic minis, so as to provide something for all different type of players and GMs with different likes and budgets.

B) Iconic Miniature Set, options:

#)1 Super Set (All 21 classes): Say $3.75 per mini x 21 classes = $78.75 total

Using all five existing iconic minis + sixteen future iconic minis OR twenty one new iconic minis doesn’t matter, sounds too high a price and goes against points #4 and #6 above.

#2) Themed sets; including existing minis (as is [less cost] or with new paints and/or sculpts [increased cost]):

Martial, core: Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger

Martial, base: Alchemist, Cavalier, Gunslinger, Samurai

Spellcasters, core: Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard

Spellcasters, base: Magus, Oracle, Summoner, Witch

Skill Monkeys: Bard, Inquisitor, Rogue, Ninja

First draft of skill grouping as I could not get 21 classes to break into even numbers, so I went by overall class theme: combat, spell casting and skill use.

Prices of sets will vary, and the above mix can be changed as needed. Hopefully they can be shipped in the same plastic case that PFBB Heroes used to cut down on cost somewhat. Something in the $13-15 range per set sounds reasonable.

#3) Themed Sets, new minis only:

As above minus the fighter, cleric, rogue, wizard and paladin minis.

#4) Sets by book is also possible, something like: Common (Core), Uncommon (APG), Rare (UM & UC).

Common Set #1: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard (aka PFBB Heroes)
Common Set #2: Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Druid
Common Set #3: Monk, Barbarian, Bard

Uncommon Set#1: Cavalier, Inquisitor, Alchemist
Uncommon Set#2: Oracle, Summoner, Witch

Rare: Magus, Gunslinger, Ninja, Samurai

Charging a different price point by rarity sounds reasonable, as it makes senses that the rarer a class is found in the game, the more expensive the mini would be as fewer people will need to buy that mini.

From all I have read in different game forums, blogs and articles, the Magus, Gunslinger, Ninja and Samurai have fewer but more vocal fans….

#5) Sets by popularity, AP/Modules usability, as determined by hard data from PFS play, or by the observations/data of the pathfinder staff, and sell them in sets with size and cost priced accordingly.

(I have no idea on how to provide an example, sorry.)

C) Regardless of any options selected in section B above, to make an Iconic set go from the “nice to have” column to the “great tie in and must have” column have them be made available at the same time as an Iconic print & pdf product as discussed in the various Iconic threads that Vic and James have posted in (if someone can link to them I would be grateful).

Something like:

Meet the Iconics; Iconics Revealed, Iconics Unleashed, or Iconics Exposed!

This product could contain existing and/or new art for each iconic, existing and/or new art of them in group shots, existing and/or expanded background material, addition of traits, suggested regional feats, representative level advancement (1, 3,5, 7…) making them even more useful for players and GMs as pre-generated PCs, NPCs, rivals adventurers… and to top it off some top notch short stories of them working together in an adventurer or quest (we already have bits and pieces of their interactions and personalities in the short intros to each chapter of the RPG books).

Don’t just sell me an iconic mini, sell me an iconic mini with accompanying art, fluff and stat book, giving me a real bang for my dollar! :)

Well, my night shift is almost over and soon I am off to bed…. Feedback welcome.

[Cpt_kirstov]

George Velez wrote:

#4) Sets by book is also possible, something like: Common (Core), Uncommon (APG), Rare (UM & UC).

Common Set #1: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard (aka PFBB Heroes)
Common Set #2: Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Druid
Common Set #3: Monk, Barbarian, Bard

Uncommon Set#1: Cavalier, Inquisitor, Alchemist
Uncommon Set#2: Oracle, Summoner, Witch

Rare: Magus, Gunslinger, Ninja, Samurai

Charging a different price point by rarity sounds reasonable, as it makes senses that the rarer a class is found in the game, the more expensive the mini would be as fewer people will need to buy that mini.

From all I have read in different game forums, blogs and articles, the Magus, Gunslinger, Ninja and Samurai have fewer but more vocal fans….

The thing is that wizards tried this with the D&D hereos packs, when all other DDMs are sold out, I regularly see these packs sitting on a shelf for under $5 when the MSRP was 12.99. The fact that we know more about the iconics might give them a little more selling power to those of us who follow everything closely, but most players only want 1 character for thier current PC, and won't spend the additional money for the other 3. Most players wouldn't even realize that the meet the iconics book you ask about was out, so it would only work if it had good PC options and was considered a must buy for players.

on a lighter note:

George Velez wrote:

Meet the Iconics; Iconics Revealed, Iconics Unleashed, or Iconics Exposed!

Would Seoni, exposed answer the question 'does magical augmentation leave scars?'

[Erik Mona]

It does not.

[George Velez]

Cpt_kirstov wrote:

The thing is that wizards tried this with the D&D hereos packs, when all other DDMs are sold out, I regularly see these packs sitting on a shelf for under $5 when the MSRP was 12.99. The fact that we know more about the iconics might give them a little more selling power to those of us who follow everything closely, but most players only want 1 character for thier current PC, and won't spend the additional money for the other 3. Most players wouldn't even realize that the meet the iconics book you ask about was out, so it would only work if it had good PC options and was considered a must buy for players.

The above is true, and is something to take into consideration. I provided ideas above to make buying Iconic PPM appealing and profitable, and we already have 5 out of 21 iconic classes produced, with more on the way.

Creating an Iconic book would be a way to increase the value of the minis, and based on my experience with Paizo products, I am sure their marketing team will cross-sell/promote the minis and book as a shared item aggressively. If a new player learns about a PF Iconic mini (be it online or in a store), I am sure they will also learn about the Iconic book and greater PF line (such was my own personal experience).

Also, Paizo is big on maintaining a direct line of communication with its customers, and in that spirit I encourage them to work on a line of Iconic minis, letting them know I will put my money where my words are. :)

[Yib Thoolp]

If Runelords is the setting for the next set, I really hope to see a large Lamia Matriarch! Or maybe a Harridan? :) And I'm assuming the iconic will be Seoni.

[Rasief]

Are out there some news about which will be the next iconic? I supose it will be Seoni but it woud be great to know exactly which one will be.

[Vernon Fults]

Rasief wrote:

Are out there some news about which will be the next iconic? I supose it will be Seoni but it woud be great to know exactly which one will be.

Seoni and Harsk; pictures were revealed in last Friday's blog.

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ld4u?Pathfinder-Battles-Preview-Famili ar-Faces#discuss

Regards,

V

[Rasief]

Nice!! thanks for the news