I have decided to play a cleric (of Urgathoa, undead lord archetype)/necromancer in an upcoming gestalt Carrion Crown AP campaign, with a focus on creating undead and debuffing.
I have the crunch of the character worked out, but I need help with the fluff, particularly how to avoid the angry horde of villagers with lit torches and pitchforks?
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Don't roll up to the bar with Zombies, especially ones you made in that Villages cemetary.
Try stay low key.
Try not to get killed in your sleep by your own party.
My advice would be to avoid advertising your deity to the commoners. I mean, if they don't know who you worship, how can they lynch you, no? If you feel you're going to be discussing deities a lot, carry extra holy symbols devoted to other gods and make sure you have a halfway decent Bluff.
Also, no raising zombies in town square. That's high profile.
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In the Bible there was a prophet named Ezekiel. Ezekiel had a vision of an entire multitude of skeletons dancing. He was from the Bible's perspective a pretty good guy.
So I would tell everyone you are a priest of a good religion when they ask. Dress to fit in not for the audition of the next crypt keeper. When the time comes and you need to create undead remind them that the situation was hopeless and that after all your diety (preferably one instramental in the creation myth or with renewal) has dominion over all things. When they are destroyed wisper a prayer over their even more destroyed corpses get up and look the paladin in the face and say "what".
Was only going to animate the dead of things I've defeated. As far as I'm concerned they're fair game, plus animating somebody's granny is suboptimal anyway (no racial HD!)
One of the players usually plays a paladin, and I am so going to do that to his character Gnomezrule!
What level are you? I played a True Necromancer (from the "Libris Mortis", think Mystic Theurge but focused on Necromancy) and in my experience Illusion and Enchantment magic, Bluff, and Stealth are invaluable. When you want to retrieve your corpses go under the cover of night and Stealth into the cemetary, use suggestion or charm spells to help convince anyone in the cemetary to leave, and start digging. Zombies can be hidden in extra dimensional spaces like a Bag of Holding or portable hole, Skeletons need to have their claws covered to go in the Bag of Holding. Control Undead can get you stronger minions. Illusion and Bluff can cover your tracks when discovered. Also there is a spell in I think Ultimate Magic called Disguise Other that might temporarily hide your undead from potential mob starters. I used Veil, but that might be too high a level for you. The one time I got caught was when I got called into town by a sending mid animation and used Hallucinatory Terrain to cover the hole and a little girl fell into her fathers grave with the pile of flesh that was her father next to his skeleton who was instructed not to move. After returning I helped her out of the hole but she ran and started a mob (figures). I stealthed into town and heard the girl tell her uncle about the mess so I used Disguise Self and dressed up as a cleric and went in. I was Chaotic Neutral so I could cast good spells and offered to cast Hallow on the cemetary. My party members kept the mob from stepping through the illusion and into the graves so I cast the spell and used diplomacy to disband the mob. They actually thanked me as they left. So once everyone was gone I got my 2 skeletons (yes all this for just 2) and filled the holes back in. They were fresh graves to begin with so no one really noticed that they had recently been redug. To avoid this fuss you might just want to animate your fallen enemies and hide them as above. Sorry the post is so long but I figured it would give some insight into possible ways to deal with the mob.
Starting at level 1 (so veil is definately too high level, at least for now). Yeah I created a True Necromancer character a while back that I never got the chance to play (scarily powerfull prestige class) but like I said it's gestalt, so even better.
Long responses are good, some nifty ideas there, though I won't be doing any graverobbing, monstrous creatures are better and you avoid a portion of the negative fallout from the locals.
I have the crunch of the character worked out, but I need help with the fluff, particularly how to avoid the angry horde of villagers with lit torches and pitchforks?
Well, it's easy. Before they do, you gotta kill 'em all.
And voi-là, more corpses to make Zombiemons.
I suggest that you animate monstrous humanoids and invest ranks in bluff and disguise.
Then you can dress your minions in full plate (with closed helms) and claim they are knights that have taken a vow of silence.
I think there are even traits that give you bluff or disguise as class skills.
I suggest you don't pose as a cleric of a different deity. That would have the unfortunate consequence of angering both your deity and the god you pretend to represent. You can safely pose as a scholar or warrior depending on how you build your character. The benefit of that is that it would not be a lie!
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Most priests of evil or unpleasant things do quite well in society. Gods of death and disease and suffering don't get worship in exchange for rewards, they get worship and offerings in exchange for protection against the things they represent. For example, a church of death and undeath would get offerings and worship from people who want themselves and their loved ones to be...
- Passed by, when any undead show up
- Blessed with homes and lives which are not haunted by restless spirits
- Able to rest in peace when they die
A priest of such a church would go around, offering safety and peace from the terrors of the grave. Any who give some tribute to Urgathoa, be is sacrifices of worldly goods, or minor vows such as to visit a grave of a loved one, or to offer an hour of prayer at his shrine each week for a month, will be given a life free from the sorrows of restless dead, and find passage to their resting place, should they die.
It's like the mafia "protection payments", but on a cosmic level, and less ... aggressive (usually).
Was only going to animate the dead of things I've defeated. As far as I'm concerned they're fair game, plus animating somebody's granny is suboptimal anyway (no racial HD!)
One of the players usually plays a paladin, and I am so going to do that to his character Gnomezrule!
So, if you are planning to be an Undead Animating cleric (a spell with the "evil" desciptor), I wouldn't be making any plans for animating the paladin.
I would be more concerned about "Smite Evil" rocking your world.
As for animating the dead ...
Start by talking to the local authorities, see if there are any "john doe" bodies, or executed criminals who were loathed by society. They can be paraded around as a warning "this is what happens to those who insult Urgathoa" kind of thing.
You could also animate the dead of dead people, deliver them to their families and then put them to rest (un-animate them). You may need to team up with a cleric or pally for that part.
Kill them all and make them into undead.
. . . They actually thanked me as they left. So once everyone was gone I got my 2 skeletons (yes all this for just 2) and filled the holes back in. They were fresh graves to begin with so no one really noticed that they had recently been redug. To avoid this fuss you might just want to animate your fallen enemies and hide them as above. Sorry the post is so long but I figured it would give some insight into possible ways to deal with the mob.
You evil evil man! You can always bag the bones and put that in the Bag of Holding.
I would like add, charisma skills are great for appearing something you aren't. You really can appear to be a good guy, say looking after the public welfare, you just have this necro-thing and relationship concerning all things dead. Er undead.
Assuming the dead can stink, cast PRESERVE on them. Keep them clean and shiny. Certian kinds of beetles will keep the bones sparkly and polishd. You can use cantrips to make them minty fresh.
If you're playing geshtalt, what's your other class?
Go bard and high cha for all the channeling ever, high saves on your bard buff/debuffs and good social skills, and minion buffs???
Undead lords like cha
High bluff, diplomacy, and sense motive are almost mandatory. I'd also try to keep any zombies fairly fresh to pass them off as 'terminal contagious patients' to any local law enforcement while on the road and represent yourself as a priest of Pharasma. The average-Joe will want to get the hell away from any plague victims and won't think too much about Zombie Jozan's blank stare or 'weak' breathing.
Don't forget about hiding the dead in bodies of water, loose patches of earth, and so on.
I would count the Paladin knowing that the spell has an "evil" descriptor a bit metagame. It certainly is grounds for him casting detect alignement, or making sense motive checks all the time. Although if the paladin has such a narrow view of the powers over life and death that even good dieties can exert. It would not be the first time you legalistic paladins led with judgement and the sword rather than your brains.
Wizard (necromancer) is my other class, with the Undead Master feat early on I can control an insane amount of undead.
I did consider bard, but many of their buffs cannot affect the undead, except dirge bard, but even then bardic music is useless on them.
if you are evil, then there is an old saying between necromancers:
"lynch them before they can lynch you".
Otherwise you can try to mask the smell and the visuals, disguise them magically as animals and pass as a circus.
No evil PC's allowed (sadly).
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Less helpful on the general reactions from ignorant Ustalavian commmoners(freakin' backwards ass Ravengro) but more helpful to getting along wtih paladins and other good characters: Have you considered the Juju Oracle (divine class) or Kobold Quarterly #19's White Necromancer (arcane class)?
Both of these classes (eventually) create neutral mindless undead and intelligent undead that have the same alignment as their creator. Juju Oracles work with a different form of animating spirit. White Necromancers work with the souls of the dead and use diplomacy rather than force to get their help. Both can be played as good, neutral, or evil.
(of course if part of the goal is to actively mess with the paladin for the lulz, ignore that, get smited)
(smote)
(smitten)
(one of those)
I don't think Juju fits in thematically with Ustalav, I like clerics more anyway. I actually like the evil source for my powers, I just don't want the ignorant peasants (or the foaming at the mouth inquisitors of Pharasma) to know about it, or if they do then to have some kind of political immunity to getting death-by-pitchforked!
I think either smited or smote can be used in this context. But not smitten. Unless you are suggesting I have a crush on the party paladin? That could make for an interesting (if probably short lived) roleplay experience.
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Invest in a wagon and some ranks in handle animal. Stack your ... companions in the back like cordwood and then have a zombie clown car pile out when trouble rears its ugly head.
Just had a thought as to how I could hide the fact that I am carrying round a bunch of animate dead.
Giant Insects! Insects have an exoskeleton (their bones are the outer shell we see of them) so animating their skeleton would merely animate that which is seen from the outside anyway, without the gooey insides that would normally rot and in all probability cause quite a bit of a stink!
So in short, unless they were a druid or ranger, all people would see is me directing a group of giant insects, which while not exactly a comforting sight, is not cause for cries of: "Argh! Necromancer! Kill him!"
are you sure that counts as a skeleton to revive? the way I always handled it was that it wasn't possible, just as with jellyfish.
Work for the Paladins? There's a recent manga where the local Necromancer is paid by the head of the churches circle of Paladins to release undead into the (ordinarily peaceful) city so the Paladins have something to do.
It a skeletal structure, if anything a more complete one than our own, it's just on the outside that's all.
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If the area has any sort of penitent monks with a vow of silence or lepers or similar robed, hooded figures that people respectfully or fearfully avoid, have your cleric dress his gumbies up in that sort of attire, so that if he runs into anyone on the road, they won't automatically see that he's got a bunch of skeletons or zombies following you. Taking ranks in the Disguise skill might help to maintain this deception (or having an ally use their Disguise skill to help dress the minions).
Don't bring them into town, in any event, leave them standing around in the woods, or in an abandoned building, or in a cave, or something, with orders to do nothing but lie on the ground, pretending to be dead, until the cleric returns. (Varies with GM. Some rule that animals won't attack the undead, as the rules for Handle Animal suggest, so predators / scavengers won't attempt to eat them, others ignore that rule and have them all be eated up when the PC returns, so you may have to replace them from time to time.) If your cleric does bring them into town, *someone* is bound to try to talk to one, or make a Perception check to notice a skeletal hand or foot peeking out, or catch the glint of skull under the hood, etc. and it's torch-and-pitchfork time.
From what I've seen of the adventure (not much, I don't own it and haven't read the individual chapters), you'll have a much easier time playing a cleric of Urgathoa than one of Pharasma, as one of the AP chapters pretty flagrantly goes against Pharasman teachings about messing with bodies and the sanctity of life and death, and could lead to the adventure flying violently off the rails...
Note that the common folk of Ustalav can't be *that* opposed to Urgathoa (as she's one of the three most commonly worshipped dieties in the nation!), so your cleric might not need to lie about his faith, just about trafficking with the undead.
Q: How can I avoid a lynch mob?
A: By not playing a necromancer.
Trust me on this, the GM will find a way to screw you. Or you will jipping yourself out of your primary class abilities in order to stay "safe." Or you will kill everyone when they show up with pitchforks and torches and ruin the game for everyone else.
No matter what, it will all come down to being your fault. I suggest avoiding this particular character concept entirely.
I already discussed my character concept with my DM, and apart from chuckling evily, raised no objections. I cannot say if anyone is playing a paladin or not as nobody has discussed their characters with me.
Regardless, while I fully intend to animate the dead, my feats and abilities (apart from the corpse companion) are geared towards my negative channeling: selective channeling, shatter resolve (from faiths of corruption, good debuffer!) My command undead would best be served by taking any hostile undead out of the picture, and like Set suggested, keep them somewhere out of town.
Over the summer I played in a Carrion Crown game in which two of the PCs were goblins, one of which was an undead lord cleric of Urgathoa. We managed by keeping them out of public sight most of the time, and they wore halfling/gnome disguises when they went outside.
As a GM currently running CC, I'm going to add my voice to the "don't do it" crowd. Really, really, this concept will not fly with this AP, at least the first chapter. This isn't a spoiler, so I'll say it anyway-Pharasma, and anyone who worships Pharasma (nearly everyone in Ustalav) loathe undead. And anyone who desecrates the dead.
Don't be that guy.
I'm sure I can keep it subtle, for the first chapter at least.
Manimal you are not alone in the "don't do it" crowd, almost everyone posting today has said something similar. Maybe it's the christmas spirit making people less inclined to evil...
P.S. Pharasma can kiss my bony undead raising butt!
I'm sure I can keep it subtle, for the first chapter at least.
Manimal you are not alone in the "don't do it" crowd, almost everyone posting today has said something similar. Maybe it's the christmas spirit making people less inclined to evil...
P.S. Pharasma can kiss my bony undead raising butt!
Of course I don't mean to hit the "badwrongfun" button, I'm just trying to throw out a warning that your concept will be difficult to implement without hogging the spotlight a little due to the extra attention the GM will have to give you. If everyone is okay with the idea that you plan to play a character that will cause a great deal of conflict, then go for it!
The GM seems fine with it, we haven't really spoken to anyone else about this, however we are a very small group, hence why we are going gestalt for this AP, also partly why I chose this concept: more meat shields, I can blast away with negative energy courtesy of selective channeling.
I know CC is against the whispering way and I know that some of the clergy of Urgathoa are allied to it, just as some are opposed to it(vampires in particular don't want to see whole world turned into undead, how will they feed?) so there will be any one of dozens of reasons why I should stay involved if my GM is even half awake.
If my GM chuckling means he does in fact intend to have me lynched then so be it.
Cloaks and masks. Play your character as an undertaker. He does public service, he's respectful of the dead, helps people with the grieving process, and generally people like him.
His "followers" and "acolytes" wear full-body coverings and robes, and ceremonial masks. They take vows of silence and do not "interact with the living" for "a period of time, as part of their training and devotion"
You can have an entire mob of skeletons in the middle of the town if people think they are just pious followers of a non-evil death god helping the nice mortician.
If Urgathoa turns out to be a problem, go with Zon-Kuthon, Norgorber, Hanspur, or Fumeiyoshi. All of those have access to the death domain (to qualify for the Undead Lord archetype).
I'd have to agree with Helaman's assessment here. I've made the mistake of allowing a controversial character into more than one of my games in the past and even when it works out alright, it's arduous at best.
The players really should work together to build a group of characters that will at least get along. A paladin would have no choice but to oppose a necromancer. That kind of conflict can only detract from your game.
I'm the first in the group to bring forward a concept at all. If anyone else creates an "if it moves then smite the bastard!" type Paladin or an anything at all of Pharasma without discussing it with the rst of us, then where does the blame lie if we do not get along?
I think the Topic Creator just wants to play a Neutral Cleric of Urgathoa, which in itself is fine if you ask me. The question is more about how to not get lynched while doing so. Sadly, the answer is secrecy, and thus also deliberate limiting of your full potential unless your fellow characters (the adventuring party) won't kill you for deploying the darker arts of necromancy.