Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Can anyone think of any examples of Paizo books that have contradicted each other, where there's been a need for a clarification about the new one superceding the old?
Sawtooth Sabre comes to my mind. Adventurer's Armory states if you're proficient with it it counts as a light weapon, while the ISWG states if proficient its light only for 2 weapon fighting purposes. The ISWG was published after the AA, yet the AA was updated after the ISWG, so which would be considered the most recent? :)
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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AA was errata'd after ISWG. Did the entry for the sabre change? If so, I hope it changed to match the ISWG. If not, then the ISWG would still take precedence
Actually there isn't an entry in the AA for the SS. The table, though shows it as being a light exotic weapon. ISWG was last updated May 2011, while AA was last updated July 2011. (Sorry, previous post was made from memory, I should know better... ;D But I knew there was a 1H/light discrepancy between the two books.)
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For a citation on replacing/updating feats and such, it is actually in the PFSOP v4.0 guide, on pages 22-23:
Playtests and Errata
The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game is a living game, and whether in the form of a playtest that varies from its final incarnation, conversion from the 3.5 rules set to the Pathfinder RPG, or due to an errata or FAQ to the Core Rules, sometimes game elements change in the course of a PC’s career. The following guidelines allow players to update or convert existing characters to use the most current rules. Further explanation of conversions or updates may appear in the Additional Resources list to clarify rules available through non-Core Assumption material.
When rebuilding your character in any way, you must describe all changes on your next Chronicle in the Equipment Sold/Conditions Gained section, and your GM must initial that section.
If a feat or trait changes or is removed from the Additional Resources list:
You have two options. You may either switch the old feat for an updated feat of the same name in another legal source (if available), ignoring any prerequisites of the new feat you do not meet. Alternatively, you may replace the feat entirely with another feat that has no prerequisites.
If a class, prestige class changes, or a class-feature-dependent
ability score is altered:
You may rebuild your character to its current XP, maintaining the same equipment.
If a class or prestige class changes in such a way that you no longer have proficiency with a given weapon or armor type:
You may sell back the affected equipment and only the affected equipment at full market value.
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If you take one of the Tien human ethnicities, you receive common as a free starting language.
The new non-human races are not currently legal unless you receive access to one through a Chronicle sheet.
Not to nitpick, but that's not what the Addt'l Resources says. The Inner Sea Guide and Dragon Empires Gazeteer entries both say that human ethnicities know the languages listed as racials.
If the Inner Sea world guide saying all tiens know Common trumps the Dragon Empire Gazeteer saying they don't, does it also trump in that no Tiens know Hwan, Minkaian, etc for free either?
Rhetorical question.. I'm assuming the answer is no.. so can we get the Dragon Empires Gazeteer entry updated in the Addt'l Resources so it says they know the languages listed as racials.. and GAIN Common as well?
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If the Inner Sea world guide saying all tiens know Common trumps the Dragon Empire Gazeteer saying they don't, does it also trump in that no Tiens know Hwan, Minkaian, etc for free either?
the iswg does not "trump" the DEG. if anything, the DEG would trump the ISWG, as it is a newer publication. however, this case is unusual in the the Tien ethnicity is a gerneralized human ethnicitiy, and the ethnicities listed in the DEG are separate, specific ethnicities, and they are all (ISWG and DEG alike) acceptable choices.
Rhetorical question.. I'm assuming the answer is no.. so can we get the Dragon Empires Gazeteer entry updated in the Addt'l Resources so it says they know the languages listed as racials.. and GAIN Common as well?
i'm sure it will be added during the next round of titles being added. to my knowledge, it has rarely (if ever) been updated more than once a month.
i'm not sure what your issue is with the semantics/wording aspects.
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My issue is that in PFS, when what is written is different than what is meant, then what is meant goes out the door. I mean, if I wanted to be a jerk GM, I could insist the new Minakan character made from the Dragon Empires Gazeteer can NOT understand Common unless he pays for the skill. And I'd be completely, 100% technically correct in reading the rules. If I wanted to be a jerk player sitting next to that same player, I could insist that the GM enforce the 'he doesn't know common' rule, since the PFS GM doesn't get to 'house rule' any deviation from the written rules. (RAW > RAI, official sources > thread posts, etc)
As it appears to be a simple error, just trying to point it out. Near as I can see Mike made his post before the update was made, and the update wasn't made to match what he said. It's either an error, or looking for confirmation that it is NOT an error and his thread post was overruled behind the scenes at some point.
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My issue is that in PFS, when what is written is different than what is meant, then what is meant goes out the door. I mean, if I wanted to be a jerk GM, I could insist the new Minakan character made from the Dragon Empires Gazeteer can NOT understand Common unless he pays for the skill. And I'd be completely, 100% technically correct in reading the rules. If I wanted to be a jerk player sitting next to that same player, I could insist that the GM enforce the 'he doesn't know common' rule, since the PFS GM doesn't get to 'house rule' any deviation from the written rules. (RAW > RAI, official sources > thread posts, etc)
ok, we're actually 100% on the same page about that (i brought it up originally nearly a month ago for the exact same reasons). it just sounded to me like you might have been nitpicking some the actual words being used in the original update, but i guess not.
As it appears to be a simple error, just trying to point it out. Near as I can see Mike made his post before the update was made, and the update wasn't made to match what he said. It's either an error, or looking for confirmation that it is NOT an error and his thread post was overruled behind the scenes at some point.
Mike made his post well after the last update was made to the Additional Resources. I'm sure we'll see the correction when the next update happens.
I am not sure what the issue is about. ISWG and DE Gazetteer do not really conflict, so a Tian character gets what the ISWG says and THEN they also get what the DEG says their specific ethnicity knows. So one book gives them Common and the other book gives them their ethnic languages.
So neither of those books need an errata or FAQ entry, rather the Guide to PSOP needs a sentence in the character creation section that says that all humans start out knowing Common, regardless of ethnicity or national origin.
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Interesting way to look at it, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as you say it is. As the ISWG isn't part of the core assumption, it isn't asumed that someone who has the DEG will know that ISWG says all tiens know common because the DEG clearly says otherwise. It's not a matter of 'forgot to mention it'-itis.. Amanandar's kingdom entry says Taldan is spoken there.. but if memory serves it's the only time Common is mentioned in the whole book. The ethnicities definately never include Common as a racial language, that's for sure.
Granted, if this were not PFS, it'd be a non issue. But it is, so matters of splitting hairs is an issue.
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I wouldn't worry about it just yet. The Additional Resources seem to be on an 8-10 week updating schedule, so I'd assume that Common as a starting language will go in in a few weeks, once that timing comes back around. Mike's ruling in this thread was made after the most recent Additional Resources update, I believe.