Does a finesse weapon only respect a bonus to hit (and use strength for damage), or does a finesse weapon respect your dex for hit and damage?
Can you use a slightly heavier weapon (long sword) as a finesse weapon? For instance, if you took it as an exotic weapon proficiency.
Essentially, I am converting a character over to PF and its not a direct correspondance, in terms of two-fisted fighting.
Does a finesse weapon only respect a bonus to hit (and use strength for damage), or does a finesse weapon respect your dex for hit and damage?
Can you use a slightly heavier weapon (long sword) as a finesse weapon? For instance, if you took it as an exotic weapon proficiency.
Essentially, I am converting a character over to PF and its not a direct correspondance, in terms of two-fisted fighting.
Not directly. Weapon Finesse/most weapons do not work that way. HOWEVER!
Aldori Dueling sword is identical to a longsword (and is usable as one if you do not have Exotic Weapon Proficiency in it). If you do have the Exotic, it may be finessed.
a) Finesse only applies to the to-hit. There are some other feats that allow dex to damage, but the most popular (Dervish Dance) only does so with a Scimitar.
b) No: Only finessable weapons can be used with finesse, and those are listed. The biggest one is the Elven Curve Blade, and then you're down to Rapier. Having said that, however, there are some exotic weapons (Aldori Dueling Sword, for instance) that are finessable and longsword-like.
Edit: Ninja'd
Does a finesse weapon only respect a bonus to hit (and use strength for damage), or does a finesse weapon respect your dex for hit and damage?
Weapon Finesse (Combat): "Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls."
No dex to damage. You'll need other (fairly extensive) feats and/or abilities to do that.
Can you use a slightly heavier weapon (long sword) as a finesse weapon? For instance, if you took it as an exotic weapon proficiency.
The Longsword is a Martial one-handed weapon. It is not a light weapon, nor is it called out as working with Weapon Finesse.
So, if I understand this thread correctly, all damage in melee is dictated by strength and dex has nothing to contribute on the damage side, but you CAN use it to hit the target.
More specifically about the long sword . . .from a comparison of the sword to, say the scimitar, there isn't much a difference in weight and length.
Ah, game mechanics! Call a long sword an Aldori Fencing Blade and its legal, otherwise, NOT!
So, if I understand this thread correctly, all damage in melee is dictated by strength and dex has nothing to contribute on the damage side, but you CAN use it to hit the target.
Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is the following: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.)
Strength Bonus: When you hit with a melee or thrown weapon, including a sling, add your Strength modifier to the damage result.
There are some feats and abilities that modify this. Weapon Finesse, for example, allows you to use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier on melee attack rolls with certain weapons.
More specifically about the long sword . . .from a comparison of the sword to, say the scimitar, there isn't much a difference in weight and length.
The longsword and scimitar both weigh 4 lbs. and are both small objects (assuming they are sized for a medium creature).
Ah, game mechanics! Call a long sword an Aldori Fencing Blade and its legal, otherwise, NOT!
The Aldori Dueling Sword has additional rules that make it function differently than a longsword, allowing a proficient user to use it with Weapon Finesse. It's also lighter, and more expensive.
Essentially, I am converting a character over to PF and its not a direct correspondance, in terms of two-fisted fighting.
What system are you converting from and what does the character look like in that system? Maybe I could help if I know the other game.
The Aldori sword is more expensive and (technically) regionally restricted, and then requires an exotic proficiency to be finesse-able. (Technically, by the flavour, the blade is slightly curved, unlike a more traditional longsword, though that means nothing when it comes to crunch)
Sawtooth Sabres are another similar weapon (they count as light in the hands of a proficient user), but they're the preferred weapon of the Red Mantis assassins, and again, cost more than a longsword.
In terms of the Scimitar - Dervish Dance is a feat that basically has the person learning a very complicated fighting style -- in order to take the feat, you need 2 ranks in Dance, dex 13, and weapon finesse -- and then you get to use dex for attack/damage on scimitars. Technically, the scimitar is not a finesse weapon, this feat just "breaks" that rule...
Sawtooth Sabres are another similar weapon (they count as light in the hands of a proficient user), but they're the preferred weapon of the Red Mantis assassins, and again, cost more than a longsword.
Note, they count as light for TWF penalties only.
If a sword could be used as a long sword and turn into a finesses weapon with Exotic Weapon Proficiency sounds like a nerf to me. Same thing with a sawtooth sabre wielded by a mystic secret brotherhood of assassins.
MPL, I am trying to convert some earlier edition characters to PF. Some of the game mechanics don't fit too well, either for the items or the skill set. I needed the whole finesse/dex thing cleared up. I guess I don't see anything obvious about making a skilled fighter over a simply strong one.
If a sword could be used as a long sword and turn into a finesses weapon with Exotic Weapon Proficiency sounds like a nerf to me.
This doesn't make any sense.
There's a sword.
If you're not skilled with using swords, you're not going to use it well. (non-proficient)
If you're skilled with swords in general, you'll be able to use it as well as a normal sword. (Martial weapon proficiency)
If you're extremely well trained with this particular kind of sword, you have the option of using it in a way that is more beneficial to you. (Exotic weapon proficiency)
It's not like regular Longswords were removed from the game. It's just a weapon. An optional weapon that you can choose to use, or not, at your discretion. Nothing has changed, so nothing could have been 'nerfed.'
I guess I don't see anything obvious about making a skilled fighter over a simply strong one.
If you could use dexterity for attack and damage, strength would become completely useless. Dex affects AC, initiative, ranged weapons, and more skills. There would be no reason to make a strong character when a dexterous character is better in every way.
The odd part is that Weapon Finesse in 3.5 worked exactly the same as Weapon Finesse in Pathfinder, with the exception that in PF there is no BAB+1 prerequisite.
If you're extremely well trained with this particular kind of sword, you have the option of using it in a way that is more beneficial to you. (Exotic weapon proficiency)It's not like regular Longswords were removed from the game. It's just a weapon. An optional weapon that you can choose to use, or not, at your discretion. Nothing has changed, so nothing could have been 'nerfed.'
If the weapons are limited at the DMs descretion, to me THAT is a nerf. Its not available to the players. . . . and this comes back to my original concept of Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
If you could use dexterity for attack and damage, strength would become completely useless. Dex affects AC, initiative, ranged weapons, and more skills. There would be no reason to make a strong character when a dexterous character is better in every way.
Well, if you knew the answer, why didn't you say so?
|
If the weapons are limited at the DMs descretion, to me THAT is a nerf. Its not available to the players. . . . and this comes back to my original concept of Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
I think you're confused about the purpose of exotic weapon proficiency. It can't be applied to a mundane weapon such as a longsword, it's ONLY to allow a character to use an exotic weapon such as the spiked chain or whip. This is how D&D has worked since 3.0 - you still haven't specified what version you're trying to convert from or what your actual character is though so I have no idea if that applies.
If you want feats that make you actually better at using a weapon once you're proficient, you take weapon focus or weapon specialization. Proficiency (even exotic) just means you can use the weapon without a penalty.
MPL, I am trying to convert some earlier edition characters to PF. Some of the game mechanics don't fit too well, either for the items or the skill set. I needed the whole finesse/dex thing cleared up. I guess I don't see anything obvious about making a skilled fighter over a simply strong one.
I'm pretty familiar with most of the older versions of D&D, and I have to say, I can't recall any of them that let you deal your Dex in damage. The closest I can remember is the 3.X Swashbuckler who could use Int for damage.
Especially pre-3rd, it was all Strength all the time--Weapon Finesse didn't even exist.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
MPL, I am trying to convert some earlier edition characters to PF. Some of the game mechanics don't fit too well, either for the items or the skill set. I needed the whole finesse/dex thing cleared up. I guess I don't see anything obvious about making a skilled fighter over a simply strong one.I'm pretty familiar with most of the older versions of D&D, and I have to say, I can't recall any of them that let you deal your Dex in damage. The closest I can remember is the 3.X Swashbuckler who could use Int for damage.
Especially pre-3rd, it was all Strength all the time--Weapon Finesse didn't even exist.
Pretty sure you can do it in 4th edition - maybe that's where he's coming from? Of course, the abilities are completely meaningless in 4th, since you can also use your CHA for attack and damage as a bard, for instance.
What you can do, is get the Agile +1 weapon ability from the somewhat new Pathfinders Society Field Guide. I personally houseruled it into a feat, much like some weapon abilities mimick feats, such as finesse or crit.
"A wielder with the Weapon Finesse feat can choose to apply
her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls with the weapon in
place of her Strength modifier. This modifier to damage is
not increased for two-handed weapons, but is still reduced
for off-hand weapons. The agile weapon enhancement can
only be placed on melee weapons that are usable with the
Weapon Finesse feat."
If the weapons are limited at the DMs descretion, to me THAT is a nerf. Its not available to the players. . . . and this comes back to my original concept of Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
I think you may not quite understand what the term 'nerf' means. It's a reduction in power of an existing item/ability/whatever.
Everything in the game is limited to the DMs discretion. Any DM (outside of PFS) can rule that polearms don't exist in his campaign. Or that all creatures are halflings. I'm guessing at this point that the vast majority of Pathfinder DMs are not currently allowing firearms in their games.
Well, if you knew the answer, why didn't you say so?
The answer to what? How Weapon Finesse works? That was answered by the first three posts. Are you trying to ask what Exotic Weapon Proficiency does? It allows you to use an Exotic weapon without the non-proficiency penalty.
There are several types of whips do they all work with Weapon Finesse?
It kind of depends, and it's not at all clear.
The Scorpion Whip from Ultimate Combat can be used as a whip, if you're proficient with whips, which means you could use Weapon Finesse with it, when using it as a whip. (No-one seems to know what that actually means, though.)
The Scorpion Whip from Adventurer's Armory/Legacy of Fire Player's Guide is exactly like a whip, only better, so Weapon Finesse applies just fine.
Here is a thread for Scorpion Whip FAQ requests if you're so inclined.