Besides, shouldn't the focus of a roleplaying game be on telling an interesting and compelling story with friends?
For some groups, sure. But there are other pleasures to these games besides storytelling, and for some people (I'm not one of them), designing and on some level "being," I don't know, Wolverine with a dire flail or something, is what they're after above and beyond things like character, theme, backstory, motivation, etc.
The important thing for all of us to remember is that that is perfectly fine. And I think for the most part, nobody on this thread has said that it's NOT perfectly fine.
It's even MORE important to remember that designing Wolverine with a dire flail does NOT mean, ipso facto, that you're NOT interested in character, theme, backstory, motivation, etc.
But it's also important to remember that Wolverine with a dire flail is a certain kind of story element, one with a lot of potency and gravity, and that some groups want to tell interesting and compelling stories that don't have to deal with that kind of narrative weight. They want to tell stories that put mechanics in place that favor DIFFERENT kinds of narrative weight. And that's fine too.
Right?
I still would want a stat boost item by the time I could cast third level spells otherwise I am sacrificing strength, dex or con or dumping charisma even more to get my wisdom up to cast third level spells at higher levels.
Some people find it much harder to write these things than others do. I have to agonize for hours to get something like that bio done. Others can as you say, dash them off in 15 minutes here and there.
Further and more important, often my character's personality doesn't gel in my head until I've played him for a while. I have a basic idea that gets filled out with time. If I'm forced to try to nail down too much before hand, it will often clash with how the character actually turns out.
I make better characters, with more depth and personality, if I don't have to lay it all out ahead of time. Some people are the opposite.
Develop in Play vs. Develop at Start.
I don't think anyone would seriously expect someone to lay out an in depth personality in 1000 words. That's pretty much impossible to do.
1000 word bio is basically a summary of where the character has been up to that point and what their basic desires and motivations are. There are also a lot of tools out there to help one do bios (The old 3.5 Hero Builder's Guide had a series of random charts, for example, where you could roll up a bio and then flesh it out)
1000 words basically comes out to be a page of information. It's a general overview of the character. A dossier. I realize some players have more problems with these than others, but some players also have a harder time optimizing than others. I don't feel doing up a page of background is asking too much, especially since it's a one-time thing.
I could see requiring 1000 word journal entries every session being excessive and overdone.
Some of us have written well over 1000 words on this thread alone arguing back and forth.
As to point buy methods, I see it also coming down to what you want out of the game.
If you want and need to mechanically be fine tuned, you'll hate anything less than 20 points (and 20 points may be too restricting) and I can see why and understand why. I don't play in games like that (on either side of the screen) though so that's why I don't adhere to that.
If someone tells me that they just don't have time because they are working for groceries etc... as was pointed out above, that's fine too. I work full time as well, and have a plateful of activities, kids, etc... so I can sympathize. That's why I don't make it a mandatory requirement.
If you are the personality-type to get actually angry over those people getting a bonus for doing extra work and you don't, or actually physically being angry for failing a check by one because you didn't write a bio and didn't get 15 point stat buy, you wouldn't be with my group anyway, because I don't interact well socially with people who get angry over those things.
I've had a table flipped, been ranted at, and had a player slam his fists through one of my tables because they got angry because they either died, did something stupid and died, or didn't win a rules argument. As such, I avoid social gatherings with people who have issues controlling their anger over trivial things like games. (the table-flipping incident came at a wargames tournament which are very very competitive and adult men throwing fits of rage are semi-common sadly. Said individual was escorted off the property of the store)
The people who enjoy 10 point buys (of which you may be surprised many exist) enjoy it because it presents a different kind of challenge and game. Those are the people whom I target as an audience, and those are the people with whom I develop games and sessions with, because we all have the same desires etc...
In closing... 10 point buys are good if you like a challenge and a more "gritty" environment where survival is more key, and like more role-based gaming where the team is more important than the individual.
10 point buys are bad if you like to run a character who is head and shoulders above the population, or players who enjoy having a lot of abilities, and who has overlap in their abilities and can cover multiple roles.
15 point buys are kind of in the middle, and to me are minor in difference between 10 or 20.
That's my take and opinion on the two.
But let me go try some MAD characters, too. :)
So today I did Master of the Fallen Fortress with a monk, rogue, and druid all using 15 pt buy. I was going to try a paladin too but couldnt get motivated to make a char sheet.
You haters probably won't even believe me but the monk was the star, his grapple and successive pin basically won the final fight. He was an elf with 15,14,11,10,14,10 as stats. Took power attack and improved grapple. The boss in question had a CMD of 16. The druid, animal comp, and rogue took out his crocodile while this was going on.
The druid for the rest of the module was pretty impressive...I decided not to do a 4 man party because of the animal companion (cheetah). Biggest "pinch" I got into was making it into a room with 3 javelin throwers with readied actions. Then I realized I could go total defense before moving...
Druid dropped below 0 once from some huge nonlethal electricity. Monk dropped once because I was being retarded. I really need to remember to always have some kind of ranged weapon ready
Its true that module is standard fare but it was still sweet as hell.
1000 words seems a little much, a level 1 adventurer is probably not that interesting really - they've been nowhere and done nothing of any great account, so why detail that they won a pie eating contest in the third grade? Is it likely to be a GM hook?
But let me go try some MAD characters, too. :)
So today I did Master of the Fallen Fortress with a monk, rogue, and druid all using 15 pt buy. I was going to try a paladin too but couldnt get motivated to make a char sheet.
You haters probably won't even believe me but the monk was the star, his grapple and successive pin basically won the final fight. He was an elf with 15,14,11,10,14,10 as stats. Took power attack and improved grapple. The boss in question had a CMD of 16. The druid, animal comp, and rogue took out his crocodile while this was going on.
The druid for the rest of the module was pretty impressive...I decided not to do a 4 man party because of the animal companion (cheetah). Biggest "pinch" I got into was making it into a room with 3 javelin throwers with readied actions. Then I realized I could go total defense before moving...
Druid dropped below 0 once from some huge nonlethal electricity. Monk dropped once because I was being retarded. I really need to remember to always have some kind of ranged weapon ready
Its true that module is standard fare but it was still sweet as hell.
Are you running this solo?
...straw man to who?
Ya know every time someone claims someones else argument is a "Straw man" I can't help but translate it to "I know you are but, what am I"
1000 words seems a little much, a level 1 adventurer is probably not that interesting really - they've been nowhere and done nothing of any great account, so why detail that they won a pie eating contest in the third grade? Is it likely to be a GM hook?
You can gain a huge deal of hooks and motivations from a 1000 word bio on a character. If one sits down and makes a mockery of the 1000 word bio to prove a point, then no, it probably won't be much use.
But the old addage of attitude comes to play here. If you sit down with the mindset that you will hate something, chances are you will hate it.
It just seems a little excessive to mandate a particular volume of detail.
If little Billy spent a pretty ordinary childhood doing pretty ordinary things in a pretty ordinary village and has just joined the town militia instead of being a farmer and taken up sword and shield, then how much more detailed did we need to be?
If we insist on getting too detailed and lengthy, you get these players rocking along with really overly hammy and far-fetched backgrounds with loads of stuff going on, yet are still L1 characters... that seems odd.
I could understand mid-level characters warranting a bit of a detailed write up (ie how they got to the dizzy heights of level X), but 'Billy of the Town Milita' could justify being pretty succinct.
Given an L1 can get one rounded on a bad hit, it would suck to have spent more time recounting Billy's first kiss at the local barn dance than actually playing the character.
YMMV, I just find it a bit much.
L1 - Been nowhere, done nothing, know nobody :p
I guess that's possible. I haven't run into that before in many years though (the extra cheesed bios). Mostly they just go into their basic motivations, recent history, any enemies, and notable events.
I enforce 15 point buy in my campaigns, but I also use a more rapid progression of level ability score boosts than the standard rules. Starting at 4th, characters get a +1 bonus to two ability scores every fourth character level. Starting at 6th, characters get a +1 bonus to all ability scores every fourth character level.
On the other hand, I don't allow inherent bonuses. It's a wash.
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L1 - Been nowhere, done nothing, know nobody
Oh, I don't know about that. How did the character learn all those crazy things that a first level character can do that the average commoner can't? Who taught him to swing a sword, cast a spell, pick a lock? What is his relationship to the gods, if any? Where did he get his "starting money" or the equipment that it abstractly represents? What is his relationship with his family, his place of birth, his nation? If he's a ranger, why is his favored enemy his favored enemy? If he's an alchemist, where did he study and where does he source his ingredients? There are a dozen questions I could ask of each character class and a hundred I could ask of all of them at first level.
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Oh, I don't know about that. How did the character learn all those crazy things that a first level character can do that the average commoner can't? Who taught him to swing a sword, cast a spell, pick a lock? What is his relationship to the gods, if any? Where did he get his "starting money" or the equipment that it abstractly represents? What is his relationship with his family, his place of birth, his nation? If he's a ranger, why is his favored enemy his favored enemy? If he's an alchemist, where did he study and where does he source his ingredients? There are a dozen questions I could ask of each character class and a hundred I could ask of all of them at first level.L1 - Been nowhere, done nothing, know nobody
Well he may well have been off to Hogwarts, but at level 1 he was only an average student, he is certainly not the local Harry Potter.
Similarly the fighter swinging the sword, well he's still not that exceptional, hes only marginally better than the rest of the level 1 Warriors, and that would mean he is still sub par to the more seasoned town Guard who would still only regard him as a pup yet to earn his stripes.
As far as favoured enemy, well thats a good one, and often where the pure gouda starts - really the enemy should be limited to local creatures of his locale... a L1 Dragon favoured enemy seems pretty odd dont you think?
His starting gear isn't all that complicated either, its not like the figures are overly substantial.
The point being that while we could roll this out in enth degree detail, most of it could be quite readily explained as pretty mundane, sure we could whip up a far-out story, but really at L1 they just dont have the level of gravitas to be considered big players outside a small homlet.
The main problem with 10-point and 15-point buys is it really is a kick in the groin for characters that depend on two, three, or four ability scores. Monks are renowned for their problems in low-point buy games.
As far as min-maxing, I have seen it, but I am of the balanced school, myself. Showing here (all stats are pre-racial mods):
10-point buy: Str 14; Dex 12; Con 12; Int 10; Wis 13; Cha 8.
15-point buy: Str 14; Dex 14; Con 12; Int 10; Wis 14; Cha 8.
20-point buy: Str 14; Dex 14; Con 14; Int 12; Wis 14; Cha 8.
25-point buy: Str 14; Dex 14; Con 14; Int 14; Wis 14; Cha 10.Yes, you say it is only a few points difference. But those few points make a lot of difference to someone who doesn't want to be 'superhuman' but instead just pretty decent.
For my own games, I let people use a 20-point buy, but they can only have one stat below a 10, and that stat can't go under 8. Solves a lot of problems. But if they really want that 20 to start, they can get it (if they pick a race with a floating +2 ability score modifier). It might cost them 16 of their 20 points, leaving them with just 4 for everything else (6, if they drop one stat to an 8), which ain't a lot.
Master Arminas
Why would you do that for your stats, ever?
Why would you do that for your stats, ever?
I tend to do that. I never use stats under 10 and like more rounded pc,s not one stat supermen.
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The point being that while we could roll this out in enth degree detail, most of it could be quite readily explained as pretty mundane, sure we could whip up a far-out story, but really at L1 they just dont have the level of gravitas to be considered big players outside a small homlet.
We could, and I won't, but I will say that I think our point of departure is that I think first level characters are pretty extraordinary compared to normal people ("A barbarian’s base speed is faster than the norm for her race by +10 feet," how? "A bard is trained to... create magical effects on those around him..." by whom? Clerics are "[d]evoted to the tenets of the religions and philosophies that inspire them..." why? And so on...). And that's not even taking the exotic and alien mindsets of whole other intelligent races like gnomes and elves into account.
Our characters, whether they're "built" with 10 points or 30 in some mechanical system designed to give us some math to define their actions, are mythic and mystical by definition. They've chosen to take up arms and armor, spellcraft and divine favor, to engage in the whole host of disparate life-risking activities we call "adventuring." That's an extraordinary choice being made by extraordinary people. There can always be an extraordinary story behind it.
But no, there doesn't have to be.
Are you running this solo?
Yeah, I use the Mythic GM Emulator to make GM calls and player decisions where my knowledge of the module would bias it. I know, it cant really compare and taints all the statistical analysis comparisons or whatever but its still really nice. I can also still do off the wall improv type stuff by feeding it my questions, which is the best part. For this run though nothing much like that happened. I also didn't do the random events mechanic this time, which alters scenes in an interpretative way, since I wanted to stick fairly close to the mod.
A lot of opportunities were there however, especially in the top level where it has the exit to the balcony and the collapsing hazard. It makes me really want to hear stories about people who have done that last fight with the hazard triggering...
Which brings us to the next part... making sure the backstories are sympathetic to the campaign and its beginning phase.
Which brings us to the next part... making sure the backstories are sympathetic to the campaign and its beginning phase.
And likewise, that the campaign is sympathetic to the backstories. Hopefully, as long as everyone wants it to be, the storytelling is collaborative.
I don't see a problem with this. It's meant to get everyone on the same page on both sides of the screen. For a collaborative storytelling process to work, all participants need to provide their input. Those that are present who don't really care about the story can opt out and just participate as a player.
one thousands words seem way too off for a first leveler, anyone with a decent propension to summarize, would get done a bio for a 10 level of played character.
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one thousands words seem way too off for a first leveler, anyone with a decent propension to summarize, would get done a bio for a 10 level of played character.
I don't know. I won't repeat what I've already written above, but a thousand words is only four typed pages, double spaced with one inch margins in a default font like Times New Roman.
Let's look at a 1st level human fighter with some standard array of ability scores that leaves him with an 8 in intelligence but at least a 10 in everything else.
As a human, she gets +2 to any one ability score. That means she worked at that, trained for it, or was genetically gifted by parents who were extraordinary in that ability. That's a story element.
She gets to select one extra feat at first level. Whatever it is, it's something that either her nature or her environment gifted her with. Which is it? That's a story element.
She gets an extra skill point, which means she almost certainly has something in her background explaining how and why she's particularly trained in that skill. That's a story element.
She's a fighter. She's proficient, think about this for a minute, she's proficient with ALL simple and martial weapons and with ALL arms and shields. That bespeaks YEARS of training. Who trained her? Why did she undergo such hardships in the first place?
That same training probably explains her bonus "combat" feat at first level, but the particular feat suggests that she was trained by someone who was wildly expert in the particular field that the feat represents. Who was that? Did they get along? Is that person still alive?
That's just looking at the most basic abilities of a class and race that doesn't have a tremendous amount of options to choose from at first level. But just answering the questions I've posed should generate four pages, and that's not even getting to "what color is your hair?"
I just implemented a 15-point buy in my campaign. It helps to manage the ultra optimizing power gamers I game with. We also play with a large group so it makes it easier to challenge everyone. I can always augment the players with magic items, magic pools or wish granting demons and genies if they are struggling.
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OK well I am going to respond to this, and not nitpicking, but the answers seem to be a bit underwhelming.
Let's look at a 1st level human fighter with some standard array of ability scores that leaves him with an 8 in intelligence but at least a 10 in everything else.
And with standard array, they are a fine specimen of the local populace... the local college kid who is probably strong enough to go play for the major leagues, or smart enough to get to the good university. Not experienced and developed mind you, just raw attributes.
As a human, she gets +2 to any one ability score. That means she worked at that, trained for it, or was genetically gifted by parents who were extraordinary in that ability. That's a story element.
As did all the rest of the Humans, this is hardly significant.
She gets to select one extra feat at first level. Whatever it is, it's something that either her nature or her environment gifted her with. Which is it? That's a story element.
One extra feat? The same one extra feat every other one of the town watch got? Once again, its pretty pedestrian when they all got it.
She gets an extra skill point, which means she almost certainly has something in her background explaining how and why she's particularly trained in that skill. That's a story element.
Which once again all their peers at the local town watch got. Perhaps they did an apprenticeship as butcher baker or candlestick maker too.
She's a fighter. She's proficient, think about this for a minute, she's proficient with ALL simple and martial weapons and with ALL arms and shields. That bespeaks YEARS of training. Who trained her? Why did she undergo such hardships in the first place?
And they are Warriors own at the local watch too, all as equally proficient with everything just like she is. Shes not a master mind yuo, she just knows how to use these items.
That same training probably explains her bonus "combat" feat at first level, but the particular feat suggests that she was trained by someone who was wildly expert in the particular field that the feat represents. Who was that? Did they get along? Is that person still alive?
Sure, but how much info is that? not a lot, and certainly there is no battle history. She has 0 xp.
If you are getting all of that to 4 pages then I think there's a lot of padding going on.
How much of that padding is really necessary?
For the record I side with the slimmed down biography camp. I used to write huge long winded biographies. What I found was first of all little to none of it gets used, but more importantly a first level character is supposed to be at the beginning of his carreer. Anything more than a page seems to be more than you could possibly experience without collecting a single xp.
But it's also important to remember that Wolverine with a dire flail is a certain kind of story element, one with a lot of potency and gravity, and that some groups want to tell interesting and compelling stories that don't have to deal with that kind of narrative weight. They want to tell stories that put mechanics in place that favor DIFFERENT kinds of narrative weight. And that's fine too.
The mental image of Wolverine with a dire flail just brings the biggest grin to my face and I have no idea why...
I started a We be Goblins PbP with a 20 pt. buy, nothing lower than an 8 before adjustments. When we started the Wreckin'-ing thread, I gave them 27 pt. buy with a free rebuild for the "new" game. Goblins of Golarion had just come out, and they were free to pick traits and feats from that, if they wanted.
There are 4 characters, and I like the high stats because I don't go easy on them. The CRs are up there, but so far they've made it. Barely.
I'm sold on point buy, and any number is playable. Larger groups don't need big numbers like smaller ones do. If you only have a few people, they're going to need decent saves and hit points, because losing just one character to some bad rolls can spell the end for whoever's left. JMO.
I also think its important that however you set the point buy, EVERYONE else in the world be built less than that before racial mods.
I also think its important that however you set the point buy, EVERYONE else in the world be built less than that before racial mods.
That kind of defeats the point of playing low point games.
In my Carrion Crown game, the GM limited all of us to fifteen point-buy. Up until that point, we've always done 25 (since starting to play Pathfinder). We are scared for our lives. :) It's tough but fun.
My Divine Channeler:
Str 8 -1 Dex 17 +3 Con 8 -1
Int 12 +1 Wis 14 +2 Cha 14 +2
(note: she's a middle-aged elf)
Straw Man argumentMy 15 point buy Elven Alchemist:
Str 14, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10.
With those stats, I know that my character will have access to 6th-level Alchemist spells. I can raise my Strength to 18 or my Dexterity to 20 with my mutagen, which is not bad at all. I also have a decent amount of skills and I can raise my AC to 21 with only a chain shirt and a Shield extract. My poor will saves and my low hp will be countered by the Spontaneous Healing discovery and the Iron Will feat. My character is a true hero, no matter what 15 point buy haters say.
I would say that implying that 15 point buy characters are common folks while 20 point buy characters are heroes, which is false since basic NPC are 3 point buy characters with 1 or more levels in a NPC class (Adept, Aristrocrat, Commoner, Expert or Warrior), is the only Straw Man argument in this thread. It is like saying that the character described above is unplayable and couldn't accomplish nothing heroic while its 20 point buy counterpart with Con 12 and Wis 12 would "tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet". The truth is that 15 point buy characters tends to have weaknesses (low hit points and poor bonus on will saving throws in the above-mentionned case) while 20 point buy characters have none unless they are min-maxed. That's the only real difference. I'm not saying that playing 20 point buy characters is bad wrong fun, as I could enjoy playing one as much as anybody, but saying that the 15 point buy characters cannot survive in an AP made for, guess what, 15 point buy characters, or cannot be "roleplayed" as well as 20 point buy characters borders on madness. Beside, it is your deeds that make you a hero, not your starting ability scores. Sure, 15 point buy characters feel a little more "fragile" during the lower levels, but it is only more rewarding when your character starts ascending slowly toward the higher levels and begins to pull off incredible stunts.
20-point buy characters still have weaknesses.
Sure, but those weaknesses are hardwired into their respective classes and are not a consequence of the amount of point given during character creation. In that sense, even 25 point buy characters would still have weaknesses.
I've never done 15 point buy. It would take one of heck of a DM to make me want to play in a 15 point point buy campaign. 20 pts is the lowest I'll go.
20-point buy characters still have weaknesses.Sure, but those weaknesses are hardwired into their respective classes and are not a consequence of the amount of point given during character creation. In that sense, even 25 point buy characters would still have weaknesses.
That actually sounds like a good thing, and would get the players to work together to negate the weaknesses their team-mates have.
I will say this only once. Playing with 15 point buy is not something I usually do, but it's not badwrong. Playing with 20 point or higher is more common for me, but it's not badwrong. And most commonly the DMs I play with let us roll our stats, and that's not badwrong either.
Also, I agree with some that 1000 words is a bit excessive for a level 1 character's background, and I say that as a writer myself. I would tone it down to 500-800 words, but I don't know the format Auticus uses either, so it's hard to pin down. Besides, if someone really doesn't bother writing even one word (as implied by these "players who just wanna play the game"), why set the bar so high for those who DO care about their character's background?
Always 15 point buy.
this is the standard and works fine (for the way our group play)
GRU
I also think its important that however you set the point buy, EVERYONE else in the world be built less than that before racial mods.That kind of defeats the point of playing low point games.
Not to me. The PCs are eventually going to be facing scores of foes; and creatures with racial mods and abilities far beyond the core races.
I'm in favor or 15 point buy as a means to focus builds so one guy can't be good at everything and has to rely on his team to pick up the slack. But a better base point buy, some extra bit of potential that sets him slightly apart from everyone else of his race, is one of the perks of being the story's protagonist.
You do Know the game is built around 15 point buy right?
You know if someone came to me with an optimized character and no background or bio. That tells me right up front that this is a Roll player not a Role player. They spent all that time digging up feats and options from a dozen rule books but couldn't be bothered to spend even a few minutes dreaming up who this guy is or why he is doing what he does... That's a guy I want to be just an extra in the game. He certainly isn't likely to contribute to the plot in any way other than "Let me kill that room full of bad guys in one round". It's better for the game if the people driving the plot are the players most invested in playing a role.
You know if someone came to me with an optimized character and no background or bio. That tells me right up front that this is a Roll player not a Role player. They spent all that time digging up feats and options from a dozen rule books but couldn't be bothered to spend even a few minutes dreaming up who this guy is or why he is doing what he does... That's a guy I want to be just an extra in the game. He certainly isn't likely to contribute to the plot in any way other than "Let me kill that room full of bad guys in one round". It's better for the game if the people driving the plot are the players most invested in playing a role.
What, a level 1 character with options from "a dozen rule books"?
I agree though, every character needs a character background, otherwise he is not a character but a bunch of statistics.
I can't see why it has to be a multi-page essay though. A couple bullet points suffice in my eyes (actually are even better, because they allow for more flexibility).
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You know if someone came to me with an optimized character and no background or bio. That tells me right up front that this is a Roll player not a Role player. They spent all that time digging up feats and options from a dozen rule books but couldn't be bothered to spend even a few minutes dreaming up who this guy is or why he is doing what he does... That's a guy I want to be just an extra in the game. He certainly isn't likely to contribute to the plot in any way other than "Let me kill that room full of bad guys in one round". It's better for the game if the people driving the plot are the players most invested in playing a role.
What, a level 1 character with options from "a dozen rule books"?
I agree though, every character needs a character background, otherwise he is not a character but a bunch of statistics.
I can't see why it has to be a multi-page essay though. A couple bullet points suffice in my eyes (actually are even better, because they allow for more flexibility).
I was exaggerating the dozen rule books... but the point is valid.
I don't require a full page or word count... I just want three detailed paragraphs. The first about your family and what it was like growing up with them. The second about your character and what she is like and what motivates her. The last about the things your character likes or dislikes, from a favorite pet that became your animal companion, to an heirloom sword your uncle gave you to train with, or even just something about the friend and enemies you grew up with. Just give me an idea about what makes your character tick. Optionally you can add more paragraphs if you wish but those first three give me ideas on how to fit you into the plot line.
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I find that limiting. Last character I played had no detailed family background, and we decided on the spot that another character is a cousin of his and thus provided strong motivation for working together.
If we both had detailed family backgrounds written down, that would not have been possible.
Same with a lot of situation in the game. It helps to be able to decide on the spot that your character has a certain history / opinion on sth. and thus drive the game forward.
I find that limiting. Last character I played had no detailed family background, and we decided on the spot that another character is a cousin of his and thus provided strong motivation for working together.
If we both had detailed family backgrounds written down, that would not have been possible.
Same with a lot of situation in the game. It helps to be able to decide on the spot that your character has a certain history / opinion on sth. and thus drive the game forward.
~shrug~
I am flexible. If you want to change what you want to write about I typically allow it. The point is to get you thinking about your character as a person and not as a set of stats. The whole cousin thing would probably have been brainstormed between you two during the character creation session anyway and that is the first step even before a background. So that the players can build their team from square one with full input from me and the other players. Giving people a chance to roll stats and discuss what they would like to play from both the mechanics and role play side of the game. And if you have no ideas about your background even after the synergy of discussion with the other players then I have my writer's block breaking tools all right at hand to help you come up with something fun.
If you don't like doing bios, don't do bios. If you think 1000 words is too much, don't do it =)
It helps set the pace, story, tone of the game when the characters have a bio and as pointed out above so very well... makes them more than just a collection of numbers sitting on a piece of paper.
If you want to play a game where the characters are just set pieces and you dungeon delve, rock it out. I know I've done those campaigns myself. They can be a lot of fun. So can campaigns where you have uber high stats and are good at everything.
My goals as of today are collaborative story-telling primarily. I have the most fun sitting down and coming up with a story with a group of people. Can you do that without a bio? Absolutely. No question. Not arguing you can't. Why do I want bios? It makes my life as a DM easier to come up with player-motivated plots as opposed to DM-motivated plots. It also has the player vest some time into their character. It's the tool that I chose to use to help me and set the tone of the environment I am trying to foster.
When sitting down to start these campaign chains, I had a few goals in mind and that is why 1000 word bios and 10 point stat buy were standard:
* coming out of 4e, I wanted to play in a campaign where the characters were toned down and more "normal". 10 point buy characters are still superior to NPCs in almost every way. Breaking it down to math, I want normal encounters and challenges to be passed 60% of the time or so. I want challenging encounters to be challenging. With higher point buys over 20, those don't really exist unless I artificially inflate the DC, which I don't want to do.
* I don't want to have to spend a lot of time upgrading monsters and making the challenges artificially harder to challenge a group. I've played in groups that were all optimized and basically dice were an optional feature because they were only going to fail if they rolled a "1" in the later stages, and even at low levels passed 80%-90% of the time. I don't enjoy those type of games, to me you are at the point where if you are passing challenges by rolling a 3+ or so on a D20, you might as well not use dice and just explain how you succeed each time.
* I want the players to dictate the story
* I need tools to allow me to let the players dictate the story without having to be unprepared and go free-form every session
* I want the world to be low magic and not be about collecting magic items or optimizing builds or being stat-monsters
Based off of those desires for this campaign, I came up with what I came up with.
Do I make it mandatory? No. Hell I wanted to make it mandatory for the characters to have their sheets updated regularly on obsidian portal, and one player won't even make an account and has admitted that its because they are lazy and have no desire to do so and won't check it anyway. Story is not really as important to them, they just like being there and playing in general. They are not banned from the table or anything silly like that.
However the plot of the story (which I find to be important, more so than delving, killing, taking loot, and which I want to be told from a standpoint of multiple people, not just my own) is going to be driven by those players who invested the time into their characters.
Those that do not want to invest time into their characters are still welcome, but as I have no motivations or any real idea of what their characters want to do other than kill monsters and take their loot, they are essentially nothing more than minor characters in the plot that are along as sellswords basically.
This is the style of game that I wanted to run, and this was let known well in advance so everyone was on board at the beginning. The second group I have started up is also going to follow the same rules, and there were enough people interested in the format that I have extras and need a waiting cue, so I know there are pepole out there receptive to this format, or at the very least want to be a part of it even if they have no intention of doing full bios themselves.
Should it be required? No more than allowing people to have high stats should be required lol. It's another way to play the game. Honestly, I can go through these boards, or WOTC boards, or enworld, and read about groups that do things that I would have no fun doing, but I don't pick on them for it and ask them if what they are doing is really neccessary.
I am also considering doing a play-by-post to run as a 3rd game with the same format.
The biggest thing that I have learned from twenty plus years of playing D&D and Warhammer tabletop wargames is that one game can spawn many playstyles, and the best route is to find those people that share a compatability for the playstyle that you like best. Being popular and doing what the majority like is not something that I really care about. Otherwise I'd have sold my books long ago and stuck with video gaming because I would have gotten burnt out from playing in a way that I myself don't like.
For every argument that one can come up with why 1000 word bios are bad and limiting, I can come up with an argument about how they help the story flow better and foster an environment that creates a story based on the characters' desires, and not the DM plot line (which I actively try to avoid unless all my players really want to do is kill things and take their loot, in which case they are saying "make up a plot, we don't care what it is, we just want to delve")
Maybe I should specify, have played 15 point buy. Have also played really low roll results methods. I wouldnt play it any longer. I dont find it limits power gaming as many imply. In fact its those who know how to power game that still shine, while people who try to craft a concept and then make the stats fit seldom get the character they wanted to play before the game is at an end. The bickering in this thread is shameful, after all this is all a matter of taste..there is no right or wrong despite the tone of some of these posts. For my taste, find 15 points creates one dimensional combat trucks that dont have the points left to be fleshed out to a degree that I find entertaining. Speaking in terms of cars...15 points gives you just enough parts to make a car that runs and if you are good enough at building cars you can even make one that runs very very fast. But there are some people who dont really care how fast it goes, and there is no parts left in the box for a radio, or some cool paint. I like a few extra parts in my box..because I know I am not building an race car anyway.
For every argument that one can come up with why 1000 word bios are bad and limiting, I can come up with an argument about how they help the story flow better and foster an environment that creates a story based on the characters' desires
Maybe because there is truth to both sides of the argument?