|
I'm beginning to think that having a CLW wand is a regional situation. Here in the Denver/Co Springs area I have seen tables where every single character had a wand of CLW. As I posted to the other thread all of my 8 active characters have a wand and have had it since early in their careers. As others have also said, YMMV.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Why? By spending PP, you are buying a spell-casting service, the same as if you paid cash for the spell. The spell description/s specifically addresses the negative level issue and the rules for permanent negative levels is in the CRB. There is no need, IMO, to restate it in the Guide.
It's only confusing because it was different in the old guide and wasn't really pointed out in big glowing letters :D
Honestly, if my character had died since Gencon I'd have done it wrong too :D
|
Dennis, I can see that and, honestly, most of the Venture-Captains missed that rule by omission as well. I am just saying that this is not something that should be pointed out in the guide.
IMO, the Guide is there to define rules specific to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. What we are talking about here is more of a clarification issue and belongs in the FAQ. Sorry, I didn't make that point better in my original post.
I'm beginning to think that having a CLW wand is a regional situation.
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the number of local PCs who buy a wand of CLW is directly correlated to the number of local players who are vocal about suggesting that PCs should buy wands of CLW. Shocking, I know. :-)
|
It should cost less for PFS. Core gives the players and the GM more options than the society. If a player dies, a party that would like them revived can go and rob a noble's house or a caravan to get the money. Or they could be owned a favor to the local temple in exchange for the revive. If one wanted, the dead player could even be brought back as a zombie :)
But none of those options are available in the society. If you die you only have two options, pay the gold or prestige.
Death is paid for in two ways, prestige(16) or gold as stated. Ok here is the jist as a junior pathfinder(level 4 and lower, 10-12 is roughly the needed chronicles to gain the prestige allotment) you in general are not seen as as useful to your faction as say a more senior memeber, and they are less willing to have you raised. Also as a higher level agent who cotinues to die the faction sees you as less "favorable" and should you have used up, will not spend the time to raise you. So either horde Gold or do good on your faction. My biggest question is, what happens when your body is not recovered, ie brought back by your companions or worse is lost in some way. As a veteran GM this is a quandry which I am unsure if there is a flat rule for.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the number of local PCs who buy a wand of CLW is directly correlated to the number of local players who are vocal about suggesting that PCs should buy wands of CLW. Shocking, I know. :-)
Pfft, that's crazy talk! ;)
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
My biggest question is, what happens when your body is not recovered, ie brought back by your companions or worse is lost in some way. As a veteran GM this is a quandry which I am unsure if there is a flat rule for.
There's a Prestige Award you can buy (I think something like 4 or 5 PP) that's listed as "Have your body recovered by a rescue team". I believe it's in the same chart in the Guide as all the other Prestige options.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
People manage to die in PFS ?
So far, I have the impression I have been attacked mostly by one-legged halfling cripples using rusted spoons as their main attack.
The two deaths I've seen were:
1. A CL 7th scorching ray aimed at a level 3 fighter, with both rays hitting for above average damage (insta-kill).2. A 1st-level monk getting critted by a heavy pick (x4 damage).
The local one I've heard about but didn't get to see was the guy who played a melee-focused monk.... with 8 CON.
|
|
I once "had" to kill a wizard with a CON of 6 (started with an 8, but an elf). Yes that means he only had 4 hit points.
His entire career was:
- Listen to the Venture-Captain's into
- Go into the sewers under Absalom
- Hide from the first encounter
- Second encounter...get killed by friendly fire when an Alchemist Fire thrown in the surprise round set off an explosive trap. Failed save + 2d6 damage = DEAD!
Moral of the story...don't mess with Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection :-)
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Dennis, I can see that and, honestly, most of the Venture-Captains missed that rule by omission as well. I am just saying that this is not something that should be pointed out in the guide.
IMO, the Guide is there to define rules specific to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. What we are talking about here is more of a clarification issue and belongs in the FAQ. Sorry, I didn't make that point better in my original post.
I guess I wasn't very clear, I wasn't trying to suggest it be added to the guide per se so much as pointing out why it's confusing at all. Ideas tend to gain momentum. I expect people will be popping in for a while yet confused about this :P
|
|
Did I miss something? Did we start telling killing PC stories?... ;)
I once killed an entire party the first round with a 2d6 Channel Negative Energy by a certain Evil Cleric on a certain ship..
Rolled a 12 and no one made their save and the highest HPs of a PC in the group was 11.
I felt bad about it for months.. But they took it well.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Did I miss something? Did we start telling killing PC stories?... ;)
I once killed an entire party the first round with a 2d6 Channel Negative Energy by a certain Evil Cleric on a certain ship..
Rolled a 12 and no one made their save and the highest HPs of a PC in the group was 11.
I felt bad about it for months.. But they took it well.
That cleric may well have the highest body count of any NPC in PFS history.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That cleric may well have the highest body count of any NPC in PFS history.
I suspect a certain Magus runs her close...
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
I suspect a certain Magus runs her close...
That cleric may well have the highest body count of any NPC in PFS history.
Hmm, the magus I think is more a one hit one character killed kind of guy, though I haven't played or run that scenario yet...
Boat cleric would take out whole parties at once.
|
That cleric may well have the highest body count of any NPC in PFS history.I suspect a certain Magus runs her close...Hmm, the magus I think is more a one hit one character killed kind of guy, though I haven't played or run that scenario yet...
Boat cleric would take out whole parties at once.
Though she wasn't much of an issue (oddly enough) when I ran through as a player with my witch, Boat Cleric came very close to TPKing the group I ran through that scenario. Very luckily, she rolled poorly most of the time, since we had a couple of first-time PFSers in the group.
|
|
My chief grouse on this is that it should say, in the PFS rules, "Raise Dead costs 16 PA, you will still need to pay for two Restoration spells at 4 PA apiece to recover the negative levels."Why? By spending PP, you are buying a spell-casting service, the same as if you paid cash for the spell. The spell description/s specifically addresses the negative level issue and the rules for permanent negative levels is in the CRB. There is no need, IMO, to restate it in the Guide.
If we did that, what about Remove Disease or Neutralize Poison? Should we state that you still need time or a Restoration to recover the ability points?
I'm just not in favor of adding more language to the Guide if the issue is already clear in the Core rules.
Imagine, Bob, that you're a casual player. One who's never USED a Raise Dead spell before, and think 16 PPs gets you back into play, and the GM has never used a Raise Dead spell before, and lets you get away with it...
And then another GM says, to Casual-Player-Bob "Oh, wait, you needed to spend 8 more PPs for that. I guess you're playing this module at 2 negative levels down...except that you're now below the minimum level to play this mod." There's a very good chance that said player is going to feel like the rules got changed on him, and will leave.
Or, worse yet, said player tries to spend all the money for the two Restorations - and then finds out, "Oh, wait, you have to wait a week between those spells. Guess you're playing at one negative level."
PFS is about customer service. Giving clear expectations is part of good customer service and customer relations.
|
|
... I guess you're playing this module at 2 negative levels down...except that you're now below the minimum level to play this mod." There's a very good chance that said player is going to feel like the rules got changed on him, and will leave.
That should not happen, as a negative level does not actually remove levels in PFRPG. A 5th-level character with 2 negative levels is still a 5th-level character - they just have penalties in place they must resolve.
Or, worse yet, said player tries to spend all the money for the two Restorations - and then finds out, "Oh, wait, you have to wait a week between those spells. Guess you're playing at one negative level."PFS is about customer service. Giving clear expectations is part of good customer service and customer relations.
PFS is also the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign, and uses the Pathfinder Role-Playing Game rules. Those are the PFRPG rules on raise dead and restoration. The way it was run in previous seasons was what deviated from PFRPG expectations.
I can understand people questioning the current cost on these boards. But if you don't like the rules for restoration, that needs to be addressed with the designers on the Rules boards.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
And then another GM says, to Casual-Player-Bob "Oh, wait, you needed to spend 8 more PPs for that. I guess you're playing this module at 2 negative levels down...except that you're now below the minimum level to play this mod." There's a very good chance that said player is going to feel like the rules got changed on him, and will leave.
The rules have changed. Hopefully the GM will mention that when he tells Casual-Player-Bob and be reasonable about what is clearly a rules misunderstanding. If players quit every time there was a rules misunderstanding this would be a quiet forum.
Most GMs I know err on the side of not being jerks when people make honest mistakes.
|
|
Or, worse yet, said player tries to spend all the money for the two Restorations - and then finds out, "Oh, wait, you have to wait a week between those spells. Guess you're playing at one negative level."
Considering there is an infinite amount of time between scenarios, if this was sprung on someone, and the GM didnt allow the player to remove both of them before the start of the scenario he was about to run, I think he's probably purposefully being a jerk.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Considering there is an infinite amount of time between scenarios, if this was sprung on someone, and the GM didnt allow the player to remove both of them before the start of the scenario he was about to run, I think he's probably purposefully being a jerk.
.
For the most part, there's an indefinite amount of time; one exception I can think of is Before the Dawn parts 1 and 2, which follow immediately upon one another. There should be, at best, a day of hard travel between the two scenarios. I haven't played the Eyes of the Ten series, but I am led to believe that there is a similar time pressure there..
Otherwise, I agree that the two negative levels should be removable between scenarios. (I try not to attribute motives to GMs. In particular, I think the number of people willing to donate time and money in order to sit in the GM's chair, just to make other people's lives less pleasant, is pretty small.)
--+--
Can anyone speak to why Josh Frost decided, back in Season 1, that he wanted to ameliorate the penalties for death in PFS?
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Gulf
|
Imagine, Bob, that you're a casual player. One who's never USED a Raise Dead spell before, and think 16 PPs gets you back into play, and the GM has never used a Raise Dead spell before, and lets you get away with it...And then another GM says, to Casual-Player-Bob "Oh, wait, you needed to spend 8 more PPs for that. I guess you're playing this module at 2 negative levels down...except that you're now below the minimum level to play this mod." There's a very good chance that said player is going to feel like the rules got changed on him, and will leave.
Or, worse yet, said player tries to spend all the money for the two Restorations - and then finds out, "Oh, wait, you have to wait a week between those spells. Guess you're playing at one negative level."
So there are four people who didn't read the rule as written, and that reflects bad on Paizo Customer service?
Player) Did not read the rules, they are in the book, on the PRD online, and a nice iPad/iPhone app. Players read rules to cheese up a character and also are expected to read rules to play better.
GM 1) Did not read the rules, a Raise dead states you have two negative levels. The Negative level section says how a perminent Neg level works.
GM 2) Did not understand the rule that you can pay 4PP or 1,380gp for a Restoration. If the PP are gone, then that amount of gp should be easy (cash or equipment) and is cast at the start of the mod before play.
GM 2 or 3) Since you have no TU in PFS it no problem paying for two spells what have a delay between. Even in a TU tracking game (cf. Living 'off white bird') you would spend another weeks TU and "Bobs your Uncle"
One more thing, at a convention or a game day, there is usually a SR GM, Venture Captain, or "guy who memorized every rule" that can help. Ask the people in charge or failing that, look for the guy/gal staring at his/her shoes.
There are never a lack of opinions and help. If someone is unhappy, as an organizer I usually ask the GM to explain the rule to the player. Usually a dose of "Rules as Written" does the trick, players want to play by written rules.
PFS is about customer service. Giving clear expectations is part of good customer service and customer relations.
Reading rules is also part of the game. How can you fault PFS when there are written rules that go unread?
|
|
Time between scenarios
While that may be true, the official ruling is that, regardless of the scenarios, there is an undefined amount of time. This is due to the nature of not having to play multi-part scenarios immediately after one another. Since everyone is granted consistency, it would not be fair to penalize the player who runs through part II immediately vs. a player who plays something else between.
While that may be true, the official ruling is that, regardless of the scenarios, there is an undefined amount of time.
It's not undefined; it's exactly enough time to teach an animal companion a few tricks.
Oh no...what's that? It's a dead horse...AND IT'S COMING STRAIGHT FOR ME!! YAAAAARGH!!
;-)
|
|
Stuff
As others have said, this is a fault, on many parts, of not reading the rules. Adding another rules reference, IMO, would not prevent the issue you describe because it is just as likely that no one read that rule either.
As far as the once-per-week aspect of the Restoration, it only effects a character raised during a scenario. Again, if the GM denied the second application from between scenario, it is an issue with their knowledge of the rules not the rules themselves.