Keeping a couple of captive PCs down

[Douglas Muir 406]

So two new PCs are about to join the party. They're captives of a bunch of evil demon-cultists, currently awaiting sacrifice. The PCs are a Samurai 9 and an Inquisitor 9.

I want to cultists to have the PCs reasonably well secured, but not so well they don't have a chance to bust out when the main PC party comes calling.

Options:

1) Manacles. Normal manacles are Escape Artist DC 30, masterwork are 35. There are also Manacles of Cooperation which seem a bit extreme ("The prisoner never attempts to escape of its own volition and agrees to any reasonable request unless it makes a DC 11 Will Save.") These guys aren't likely to have much Escape Artist. What's the Break DC on manacles?

2) Guards. Two low level cultists (like, Rog 3/Ftr 2) are watching the captives at all times. Presumably they'll be distracted if the main PC party attacks, but they'll have orders to kill the prisoners if the cultists are in trouble. I suppose I could be generous and give one of them the key to the manacles.

3) Magic. The cultists include a cleric and a sorceror, so assume they have access to 4th level arcane and divine spells. Are there any long-lasting (like, hours/level) debuffs that they could cast on their prisoners? (The cheesy one would be "sorceror casts suggestions until you fail your Will saves -- noow you don't want to escape." That seems a bit much. But some debuff that had them at minuses on their rolls would seem reasonable, if such a thing exists.)

4) General abuse. Obviously the PCs are starting with no equipment. I'd also say they're at half hp or less for sure; they might be suffering some ability damage as well.

To be clear, the goal is to present a challenge to the two captive PCs that they may or may not overcome. If I make this too easy, the question will arise "well why didn't you just escape days ago". If too hard, well, then they have to wait for the other PCs to defeat the evil party and rescue them. I'm looking for a balance where with good rolls and/or clever planning they might get out, but otherwise not.

Doug M.

[roccojr]

If its a plot device, just have them unconscious... Drugged. The cultists have just delivered the antidote since they need to be awake for the ritual as the other pc's arrive. Once they arrive, the distraction allows the newcomers to break their flimsy bonds (with a built in excuse for why they didn't try sooner).

You can decide if there's still some drug around. Pc's often have thenhardest tme dealing with prisoners. A slow-acting (aka useless in any combat or most roleplaying scenes) drug that knocks out a prisoner for later collection might be cool to give them, too.

[Douglas Muir 406]

roccojr wrote:

If its a plot device, just have them unconscious... Drugged.

No, that's not what I want. I want them conscious and with some modest chance of escape.

Doug M.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Scanning the cleric spells, I see just two long-lasting debuffs. Good old Bestow Curse (Will save) will either drop one stat by -6 or put -4 on all attack rolls and saves. Duration is permanent until removed or dispelled, so that works.

The other is Waters of Lamashtu, which works in this case since the cultists can totally be worshippers of the Mother of Monsters. Drink a dose, Fort save or take d6 Int and d6 Dex damage.

Remarkably, that seems to be it for long-lasting debuffs in the low-level divine spells.

Doug M.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

roccojr wrote:

If its a plot device, just have them unconscious... Drugged.

No, that's not what I want. I want them conscious and with some modest chance of escape.

Doug M.

I think he meant. They were drugged to justify not having escaped up until now. But now they are coming out of it so they can be questioned.

I would give them say a -4 on all ability scores for an hour, then a -2 for another hour until the drug wears off the rest of the way.

[Henry Lockwood]

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

roccojr wrote:

If its a plot device, just have them unconscious... Drugged.

No, that's not what I want. I want them conscious and with some modest chance of escape.

Doug M.

I think he meant. They were drugged to justify not having escaped up until now. But now they are coming out of it so they can be questioned.

I would give them say a -4 on all ability scores for an hour, then a -2 for another hour until the drug wears off the rest of the way.

This also lets you have fun with the addiction/withdrawal rules, if you and your players would find that entertaining.

[EvilMinion]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

So two new PCs are about to join the party. They're captives of a bunch of evil demon-cultists, currently awaiting sacrifice. The PCs are a Samurai 9 and an Inquisitor 9.

You said it was a modified version of the Shackled City stuff? ie: Occipitus?

Said plane has various terrain types, one of which includes acid pools of various sorts. Just have the encounter be in one of those areas, and the prisoners can use a nearby puddle of acid to dissolve their bonds/manacles with a couple rounds of distraction to work with. Perhaps give them a small amount of damage to go with.

Something that they wouldn't get the chance to do if the cultists are watching them, but they might be able to pull off with the distraction of a combat.

[karkon]

I suggest manacles. Let the players know that they have been held for a long time. They have been working on the manacles for that time and the chain seems to be weakening. When the PCs enter give the new PCs a DC for bursting the chains. Make it high enough that they need to roll high on a d20 (18+their modifiers). Then they can try every round. One of them might get lucky the first round and the other might struggle the whole fight.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

Henry Lockwood wrote:

... This also lets you have fun with the addiction/withdrawal rules, if you and your players would find that entertaining.

I love that idea! My players would probably not enjoy it though.