Is there any reason why an incorporeal creature couldn't 5 foot step into a wall after it attacks? I was using this tactic against the PCs recently, and of course it wasn't very popular. They had a Cleric who could have staggered the spectre with a touch, but for whatever reason he didn't bother. Perhaps he was afraid that the staggered spectre would just withdraw (which it eventually did after discovering that the first 4 PCs it attacked had Death Ward on).
The 5 foot step in and out of solid objects is a very effective tactic though. Maybe it is even too effective. I wonder if there's a rule I missed somewhere that it takes a move action to "meld" into the wall/floor or if a house rule to that effect might be good. That way the PCs would at least get an AoO. Maybe I'm just getting soft hearted or something though. I mean, the PCs can ready actions to attack the monster when it emerges. They were in kind of a tight space and aren't very good at mobility though.
I believe that an incorporeal creature which is completely in a wall can attack into adjacent squares without emerging completely from the wall. There are some miss chances involved, but this isn't what was going on. The spectre in question was coming out of the wall completely.
You're right that the spectre couldn't take a move action and a 5 foot step in the same round though. One round it would come out of the wall and touch a PC. The next round it would touch an adjacent PC again and then 5 foot step back into the wall. After that it might come out into the same area again, move to attack other targets, or leave and let the party's buff spells expire.
Incorporeal: "An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object's exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks."
Is there any reason why an incorporeal creature couldn't 5 foot step into a wall after it attacks? I was using this tactic against the PCs recently, and of course it wasn't very popular. They had a Cleric who could have staggered the spectre with a touch, but for whatever reason he didn't bother. Perhaps he was afraid that the staggered spectre would just withdraw (which it eventually did after discovering that the first 4 PCs it attacked had Death Ward on).
The 5 foot step in and out of solid objects is a very effective tactic though. Maybe it is even too effective. I wonder if there's a rule I missed somewhere that it takes a move action to "meld" into the wall/floor or if a house rule to that effect might be good. That way the PCs would at least get an AoO. Maybe I'm just getting soft hearted or something though. I mean, the PCs can ready actions to attack the monster when it emerges. They were in kind of a tight space and aren't very good at mobility though.
The tactic is valid, and can be brutal if the PCs don't or can't adjust--moving farther from the wall to prevent the 5' step or attacking from within the wall and readying actions to attack when the incorporeal creature emerges.
Now there's a fun idea. 10' reach incorporeal tentacles hiding in the wall of a 10' wide corridor. Even if players hug the opposite wall, it can still make a blind strike (like attacking an invisible target) with the appropriate penalty. Or I can just be really mean and put them on each side of the wall.
Low HP and not hard to hit with readied actions, but enough to get a few hits in and make the players hate me that much more. Heh heh heh.
10' reach incorporeal tentacles hiding in the wall of a 10' wide corridor. Even if players hug the opposite wall, it can still make a blind strike (like attacking an invisible target) with the appropriate penalty.
Remember the incorporeal creature can only sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, and it must remain adjacent to the object's exterior.
you could use the ride-by or fly-by attack feats to accomplish this sort of thing in a narrow room. Start the round in one wall, charge across the room hitting an opponent during the move and ending the turn in an opposite wall. For that matter, since incorporeal creatures can fly, they could start in the ceiling and end in the floor and vice-versa.
The fact that the incorporeal creature has to remain adjacent to an object's exterior might make a difference. If nothing else it makes the Stone Shape tactic potentially more likely to work since the creature will never be deeper than 5 feet into a wall, floor, etc.
I suppose that a spectre with an 80 foot fly speed really could get a lot of use out of Flyby Attack, but I don't really need to make incorporeal creatures more effective at this time. They seem plenty strong as is. That's not to say that I might not run a really nasty shadow demon villain later on, but 8th level PCs can only handle so much.
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I've got a party that may soon face a Greater Shadow, a monster who does have FlyBy Attack. Out in the wilds, what's to stop one of these nasties from hanging out in the ground, popping-up to attack, and then sinking back into the ground? 1d8 STR damage would be pretty awful, even for a relatively high level group.
I want the encounter to be tough, but not unfair. The motivation for this creature might prevent it from consistently using smart tactics, as it is driven by rage and hatred towards the living.
|
Fairly hard encounter. A few pointers about the posts and your encounter:
1)
Now there's a fun idea. 10' reach incorporeal tentacles hiding in the wall of a 10' wide corridor. Even if players hug the opposite wall, it can still make a blind strike (like attacking an invisible target) with the appropriate penalty. Or I can just be really mean and put them on each side of the wall.
Low HP and not hard to hit with readied actions, but enough to get a few hits in and make the players hate me that much more. Heh heh heh.
Don't work, you need the Strike Back feat to do that.
2)
Flyby Attack
This creature can make an attack before and after it moves while flying.
Prerequisite: Fly speed.
Benefit: When flying, the creature can take a move action and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack.
Normal: Without this feat, the creature takes a standard action either before or after its move.
Flyby attack isn't spring attack. The attacker still provoke attacks of opportunity as normal.
3) Readied attacks work well, especially ranged ones and the shadow can't pass through squares occupied by enemies.
4)
Strength Damage (Su) A greater shadow's touch deals 1d8 points of Strength damage to a living creature. This is a negative energy effect.
so it can be blocked by Death ward.
5) this feat can ruin the shadow unlife:
Stand Still (Combat)
You can stop foes that try to move past you.
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes.
Benefit: When a foe provokes an attack of opportunity due to moving through your adjacent squares, you can make a combat maneuver check as your attack of opportunity. If successful, the enemy cannot move for the rest of his turn. An enemy can still take the rest of his action, but cannot move. This feat also applies to any creature that attempts to move from a square that is adjacent to you if such movement provokes an attack of opportunity.
4) Flying or levitation will force the shadow to expose itself to attacks.
Even swimming in a large enough body of water can work.5) If they aren't adjacent to its position the shadow has to peek to locate the enemies. That limit its abilities.
Mostly the solutions are magic based or feat based, but it can be beaten. the shadow hasn't so many hit point, so it is a reasonable encounter at level 8 for a rested party.