It sounds like you solved your question already.
To toss my opinion in late: Just respond both IN character and IN kind. If their character's are insulting yours then your character should insult theirs. Alternately you could take the higher road and spin this back on them. In character BE HURT emotionally by their insults. Ask the other PCs why the priest and princess are being so vile! If the group is seriously into role play then this second path can lead to a lot more friendly drama.
I actually had my game today and spoke with the DM afterwards about PvP and he said he didn't blame my alchemist in the least for wanting to do it. We had a nightmare of a session where the two characters (Human Cleric of Pharasma 4 and Elven Evoker Wizardess 3 - the princess) my guy was having problems with kept making bad decision after bad decision during our fight with the BBEG, which nearly resulted in a TPK, but was narrowly avoided by the two other party member (a blind human monk of the four winds 4 and gnome celestial sorceress 4). I was laregly useless due to terrible rolls.
After a long discussion about the pros and cons of PvP I decided to back off from it. Really it just makes more sense that the alchemist would want to make them as miserable as possible rather than outright kill them. His pride might demand it, but he's smart enough to resist his natural impulse. Plus he's financially involved with their success at the moment and bringing on different people would just be a whole other set of problems. Besides there was a well established tradition of pranking in our group, but it fell by the wayside after the two most effective pranksters moved away a while back. It'll be nice to bring that back.
The big reason is that the two players involved aren't well versed in the mechanics of the game so creating a new character would be a big ordeal for them and would halt the game. I'm pretty sure they'd be fine with the PvP as they're both effective roleplayers and big on in game motivations (which is why the conflict escalated in the first place, we all got really into character), but it would just be more trouble than it's worth for me to get a moment of joy bumping off an annoying PC.
Basically what I've pulled from this is that it can sometimes lead to fun with the right kinds of people and can ruin it for others. There were some good points for both sides of the argument, but it basically all comes down to knowing your group, which is why I decided to leave off it.
One thing you may want to consider instead of open conflict (at least initially) with the party is to have your character secretly turn on the party. The 'big betrayal' at a key point can be a great story point, and make for great roleplaying. People in my group have at times secretly worked with the dm to create a moment where the disaffected PC turns on the party at a crucial point. Either joining the enemies as part of an encounter (becomming essentially a player controlled npc) or by abandoning the party in a difficult situation they created or made worse (enjoy this horribly trapped room friends, I am off to vacation island).
The key here is to work with your dm to make it interesting, and to understand that this likely means the eventual replacement of YOUR character rather then killing the party members off. I have found that this can be a good use of in character friction in the party, rather then coming to straight up blows. And it allows the players to play out the conflict without it 'really' being pvp.
I removed a post. Be constructive, please.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A long long time ago, in a campaign setting far far away, I once ran a half-elf wizard/cleric named Kurt. Kurt with a pretty good fellow, but he was not devoted to the tenets of good, nor to those of evil. Kurt was a neutral guy that just wanted to get along and go along.
Our adventuring party had a guy that had never before participated in an RPG, and he was played a really arrogant and egotistical ranger. Furthermore, he didn’t like elves—and by extension that meant that he did not really care for me. This guy (his name was (I kid you not, here) Basher) was always insulting Kurt and doing things designed to get under Kurt’s skin. But, hey, it was all water off a duck’s back.
Until this one time that Basher reached over to the divided up pool of loot after an adventure. Telling me and the group, this weapon (in my pile) was his, because no elf pansy can use such a sword. The rest of the group had just about had enough of this guy, but I convinced them to give me a week and they did.
Next week (after a long talk with my DM), we assemble for our gaming session. First part goes ok, and then we turn in for the night at the camp. Well, all my preparations are complete, so I walk over to the sleeping ranger, cast Power Word Sleep (it was 2nd edition, and that was a low-level god spell, let me tell you!), and then the rest of the party helped me out.
Basher woke up, strapped down to a wooden table, immobilized by rawhide cords binding his arms, chest, waist, and legs. The table was inside a tent, and overhead all he could see was a swaying lantern. And poor Basher was naked.
Seeing that Basher was awake, I stepped into his field of view, and greeted him. Well, after his obligatory threats, I smiled and told him that attitude was going to have to end here and now. He laughed, and threatened me again, and promised to all sorts of horrid things to Kurt once he got loose. So Kurt nodded.
And he moved a mirror into position so that Basher could see a white sheet covering his lower body; more specifically, a white sheet set up like a surgical screen. At this point, I just started talking to poor old Basher, telling him that he had obviously forgotten I was a powerful priest and a formidable wizard—and that I was very skilled in the art of chirguery. As I said this, I had Kurt lift and examine a razor-sharp scalpel, and then the half-elf walked down to the far end of the table, behind the screen.
Basher started to sweat. I told him that he obviously had rather too much testosterone in his system, and that I would take care of that problem for him. Mumbling some words, Kurt (and his henchmen, hidden behind the screen) ‘cast’ an anesthetic spell (i.e., we had already had ice-bags covering his groin and thighs, so that they were good and numb while he was sleeping).
You should have seen Basher’s face—he was utterly horrified. He began begging me to stop, but Kurt continued, and made a quick stroke with the back (the blunt) edge of the blade against Basher’s genitalia. At the same time, one of my henchmen sloshed out a bowl of hot sheep’s blood against the sheet, the steam still rising in the cold night air.
Basher fainted. I am mean, the player went absolutely numb, and then turned to the DM and asked, ‘Did he just . . . I mean I’m not . . . ‘
And the DM smiled and said, well, yes, he just did.
When Basher, in game, woke back up, there I was with two sheep testicles in my hand (bloody sheep’s testicles, I may add), and then I informed him that I could heal him. Give him back what I had taken—but it would come at a price.
He actually cried (the player) as Kurt tossed one testicle to the party’s hunting dog, who promptly swallowed it down.
Kurt told Basher that he would have to accept a geas spell—and that any further hostility against Kurt would undo the magical restoration of his family jewels.
Basher agreed. So, Kurt smiled, and cast Power Word Sleep again. And after a few cantrips to wipe away the sheep’s blood and clean up poor old Basher, he was as good as new.
Of course, as a 7th level caster, I didn’t have Geas. But Basher didn’t know that. And he didn’t know the whole thing was staged. He work up the next morning, quickly checked his crotch, and never, ever insulted Kurt again.
And so, you ask, what is the morale of the story? Sometimes, you don’t have to kill a fellow party member to get your point across. All it takes a little imagination, a little cleverness, and a DM that is just as fed up with the other player as you are.
Master Arminas
*First, let me apologize because I have not read all the posts that came before this one, but I'd like to add one thing.
I played in a Star Wars campaign in 1997 where my character was also an under cover terrorist (a Sith Operative) but part of the character arc was I came to genuinely identify with the Rebellion.
Once the other characters found out who I was, about half the group attacked me...actually all the group tried to kill me.
Long story short, I was optimized and they weren't; so I managed to kill most of them in relatively short order, the process of which pushed me too far into the Dark Side and irredemable evil.
Bottom Line: IT WAS AWESOME.
Them plotting to kill me (unsuccessfully, /flex) was one of the greatest sessions we ever had and we think back fondly to that campaign nearly 15 years later.
If it fits your character concept, and the other people at the table aren't whiny babies: do it. Or kill one of them and make it look like the other one did it, and let the rest of the group do the killing for you. ;)
As a preface, I have been role playing pretty consistantly for 11 years, so I'm not new to the nuances of gaming. I'm also not a complete a$@!!+&. However I am faced with a problem that I have never enountered before and my natural instincts for gaming and not being a complete a%&@@&+ are at odds with my character's attitude.
Now, my question is whether or not I should kill two of my fellow PCs for insulting my character. On the one hand I know that a PC killing another player's character is really lame, aggravating, and there is a certain amount of betrayal and selfishness involved that tells the other person that their fun isn't as important as yours. This makes me not want to kill.
On the other hand... both of the PCs I mentioned have repeatedly insulted my character, who is a proud person (also secretly a CE anti-aristocracy anarchist who worships Norgorber) and if I may say so, the most valuable member of the group. Without me the story would not have advanced at all and many encounters have relied on my being there to prevent everyone from dying, yet those two continue to act as though my guy is a waste of space. Also, one of the PCs is a haughty princess who my character just wants to kill on principle and the other is a bossy mouthy Cleric of Pharasma, a religion my character despises as he thinks it oppresses the spirit of Man to give in to Death so easily (He's an Alchemist and at 20th I plan for him to have Eternal Youth) and they help to keep the status quo in Ustalav, where all this is happening.
The GM had a big open discussion about the possiblity of PC on PC violence as he saw the party friction increase. He claimed to be fine with it and everyone else at the table agreed that it was okay as long as it was in character and that there would be no retribution from future unrelated characters (though not from the still living PCs if caught).
The facts are out there, what do you, O possible reader, think? Do you think it's okay to kill PCs under those circumstances or not?
Some group's/people handle PvP better than others. I would ask the player would he take it personally.
WHY would your dm ever let you make a CE character....
Why not? CE does not equal SE(stupid evil) even if it is often played that way.
edit: changed "does" to "does not"
WHY would your dm ever let you make a CE character....Why not? CE does equal SE(stupid evil) even if it is often played that way.
Agreed.
That's like saying why would the DM ever allow any _________(thing you don't like). If it's in the rules, it should be allowed; but if you have an openly CE cleric in a group full of Paladins, it might be a pretty short campaign.
*First, let me apologize because I have not read all the posts that came before this one, but I'd like to add one thing.
I played in a Star Wars campaign in 1997 where my character was also an under cover terrorist (a Sith Operative) but part of the character arc was I came to genuinely identify with the Rebellion.
Once the other characters found out who I was, about half the group attacked me...actually all the group tried to kill me.Long story short, I was optimized and they weren't; so I managed to kill most of them in relatively short order, the process of which pushed me too far into the Dark Side and irredemable evil.
Bottom Line: IT WAS AWESOME.
Them plotting to kill me (unsuccessfully, /flex) was one of the greatest sessions we ever had and we think back fondly to that campaign nearly 15 years later.If it fits your character concept, and the other people at the table aren't whiny babies: do it. Or kill one of them and make it look like the other one did it, and let the rest of the group do the killing for you. ;)
Wait... WHAT!? Killing in self defense pushes you into the darkside? Which starwars game was this, so I know to keep my distance from it.
Back on topic, I did this as well, as an 'Emperor's Hand.' Except it wasn't in self defense, rather everything was carefully calculated.
OK slight detour:
It was the old West End Games version.At the exact moment I was floating in a Bacta tank, which they planned to shoot up; so I spent all my force points to simultaneously force choke the lot of them...and THAT pushed me into the Dark Side. O=)
Now, my question is whether or not I should kill two of my fellow PCs for insulting my character. On the one hand I know that a PC killing another player's character is really lame, aggravating, and there is a certain amount of betrayal and selfishness involved that tells the other person that their fun isn't as important as yours. This makes me not want to kill....The GM had a big open discussion about the possiblity of PC on PC violence as he saw the party friction increase. He claimed to be fine with it and everyone else at the table agreed that it was okay as long as it was in character and that there would be no retribution from future unrelated characters (though not from the still living PCs if caught).
I don't see where the OP said he IS the DM....
EDIT: What kyrt-ryder said.
I think it can create a tension in the group and make characters paranoid. While this last part is meta gaming it still could happen that way. The other thing to consider is the GM. If the GM has a mass amount of time invested in the campaign, especially home grown, then it is a huge waste of time. As a GM I don't like my time wasted. Real life only allows me so much time to game. Now as a roleplaying aspect, it is well within your rights as a player to do this. It is well within your alignment to do this. If I were playing a CE character I would do it as well. CE is a very unpredictable alignment and it is very possible for your character to let it slide or fly off the hinge. Even if your all friends you may cause enmity between you, the other players and your GM.
While they say there are no hard feelings you can usually tell with how they play their character as to how upset they would be should they get killed.
About 5 years ago we had a player that was disruptive to be disruptive. His whole goal was to screw the party. Every single character he played was like that. So when he makes up new characters we know what he is essentially going to play. He left gaming for a few years then came back. He did the exact same thing. He came in late to the campaign and nearly wiped out 2 years of campaigning. I meta gamed and had contingencies ready in the eventuality that this would happen. Sure it was also the character to have these types of contingencies ready, but in the end I meta gamed and used my characters motivation to fit my meta gaming. In a situation like that it is hard to not meta game and I am a worse roleplayer for it. IMHO it is the GM's job to make sure something like this doesn't happen. This is also why evil campaigns exist. In the end all it takes is one character with detect alignment(evil) and that should be enough for any good character to say, " I am sorry I will not travel with you."