Goblin Squad Member
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Agreed. My point is, the only place they're on the ground is in player hubs.
And wherever they're questing. But yeah, I can see where you're coming from. The chances of you passing someone on the road to your destination is lessened if flying mounts are prevalent. But, again, not everyone will have access to flying mounts at any given point. There will always be less experienced characters who still have to walk of ride land mounts or what have you.
Agreed. I was talking more about the fact that you see someone coming; you mount up and climb to 15,000 feet. gg.
Yep. There are ways you could tackle that, but I'm not sure if any of them are good ideas.
I was referring to the NPC controlled Gryphon and Bat handlers.
Ah, taxi services, they're called.
These static forms of travel (in Vanilla, not Cataclysm in which they greatly expanded flight points excessively) offered players solutions to a lot of travel problems whilst causing none. It was still a relative time sink to cross large regions and cost gold. Flight paths were so well selected that players still had to conduct a reasonable amount of overland travel and the world was booming with activity. Boats were obviously great at moving people across largely distant continents.
Sure, but, as a player, would I want to go back to the days of being limited to taxi routes if I didn't have to? Nope. I think that holds true of the majority, as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also, WoW has flying mounts. A lot of people are still on the ground in major hubs.Agreed. My point is, the only place they're on the ground is in player hubs.
And, like other MMOs with flying mounts, you can simply design it so that you can't mount up while engaged in combat. And there are a ton of abilities that can "strip" you of your mount if you're already mounted.Agreed. I was talking more about the fact that you see someone coming; you mount up and climb to 15,000 feet. gg.
Wait, now I'm confused. You said you liked WoW's system but now you're saying don't use it?I was referring to the NPC controlled Gryphon and Bat handlers. These static forms of travel (in Vanilla, not Cataclysm in which they greatly expanded flight points excessively) offered players solutions to a lot of travel problems whilst causing none. It was still a relative time sink to cross large regions and cost gold. Flight paths were so well selected that players still had to conduct a reasonable amount of overland travel and the world was booming with activity. Boats were obviously great at moving people across largely distant continents.
My disagreement lies in offering players their own controllable flying mounts, for the reason I mentioned previously.
I must disagree, I do not like the static NPC taxis...BUT, if players can build ships, they could take passengers. If players can focus on animal handling and train flying mounts such as griffons or dragons, AND they can take passengers, there is a taxi system that builds the economy. As a sandbox, I must argue that anything you think to implement, PCs should get the first option of doing it.
As to why not just give everyone there own flying mount? I already expressed I think the work involved with finding, raising, training, and even controlling such a beast would be beyond the skill of someone who has chosen instead to focus on combat or adventuring skills (of course, this does not make one better than the other, only better at their chosen area).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I must disagree, I do not like the static NPC taxis...BUT, if players can build ships, they could take passengers. If players can focus on animal handling and train flying mounts such as griffons or dragons, AND they can take passengers, there is a taxi system that builds the economy. As a sandbox, I must argue that anything you think to implement, PCs should get the first option of doing it.
As to why not just give everyone there own flying mount? I already expressed I think the work involved with finding, raising, training, and even controlling such a beast would be beyond the skill of someone who has chosen instead to focus on combat or adventuring skills (of course,...
Totally agree and I did not consider this perspective; I was in Scott sparring stance.
But yes, this is a great idea and very in tune with animal taming from Ultima Online. Tamers could tame and control powerful creatures, but required a range of skills to do this. NOTE: Animal taming was amongst the slowest, if not the slowest skill to train.
This requires that there is indeed some form or skill cap (soft or hard) or system which disallows players from acquiring a monopoly of skills as to allow only the most dedicated animal tamers such a creature.
Given this scenario, this is an excellent idea. All I ask is that the creatures are lore specific and eye pleasing. I swear people can now ride Power Rangers in WoW.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This requires that there is indeed some form or skill cap (soft or hard) or system which disallows players from acquiring a monopoly of skills as to allow only the most dedicated animal tamers such a creature.
I would argue that time should be the skill cap. Doing something well requires time dedicated to doing it (be it an EVE type system of learning or an actual "doing" based system). Focusing on several areas will always leave you less in an area than someone who focused exclusively.
Having not played any of these OTHER games... my opinion may not count as much...
But I've wanted a Pegasus since Clash of the Titans 1981.... Griffons, hippogriffs, even dragons... are all well and good,
But I wants me a Flying Horse!!!
>.>
<.<
I'd even like one IN the game ;)
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Okay, I laughed...thank you for keeping your disagreement with me amusing and friendly. If the game were less than perfect because it had pocketable mounts, it would not be a gamebreaker for me.
But I actually agree about the horseshoes...they are not necessary fro a horse, bu they do provide a bonus. And...I am sure many blacksmiths made their livings with crafting horseshoes over swords and armor.
Very few blacksmiths made weapons. But, quite a bit made axes for chopping trees.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I certainly understand the desire for mounts. My concern is the impact of faster travel on RP and player interaction. As soon as you can travel from point A to B faster, and skip having to actually run into other players, you begin to turn the MMO into a single player game that happens to have other people in it.
In Ultima Online, I got so fed up with people moongating and rune recalling everywhere that I organized city walks, where people met up and walked from one city to another just so that we could interact with one another, network with new people, harvest along the way, and deal with the dangers of the road as a group.
I'm not a fan of the disappearing mount, but unless you have public and settlement owned stables, the problem of server lag for all those extra mounts really will be an issue. As much as I liked the realism in UO of horses left outside the tavern getting attacked (and patrons having to rush out to drive away the attackers), there are times when we have to forego realism for playability.
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Goblin Squad Member
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they way i see it is for say a single player mount it should work like this. You have the mount trained, you have a whistle, when you need the mount you whistle and it comes to you.
What does it do while you do not see it? Fend for itself, run away from danger.
One thing that can be done is to limit summoning (whistling for) the mount to say a single hex. So if you run into another hex you cant just summon your mount. This would give things like phantom steed and figurines of wondrous powers still useful.
One thing though is with having to caravan and such i would like to see breeding animals be something players can do. So for example you breed for stats on the animal. So breed enough high stamina oxen, you have oxen that can pull a heavy wagon all day without resting, but cant sprint much. On the other side you can breed a horse that is strong and can sprint short distances as a war horse. Would be one more way people can interact.
Company XYZ makes the finest war horses in all the lands. Come to XYZ to see our daily selection, all war horses at or under MSRP, not mark ups! Inquire if you qualify for the fighter college discount. Get here quick our end of the year sale ends on the new year!
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Goblin Squad Member
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For mounts, I imagine Figurines of Woundrous Powers and similar items that can summon forth mounts would be desirable.
That's actually a cool way to do it, especially since it's something that is actually IN the Pathfinder game.
You could have low level mounts that can be killed and run off if you leave them alone. These would be used by low level characters and/or for trade caravans which are supposed to be a big prat of the game. Conversely, Figurines of Wonderous Power mounts could be player made magic items that are the staple summoned mount of MMO's.
Bam! Verisimilitude AND game convenience. Heck, this solution finally puts the typically high MMO gold cost of a mount in it's proper scale.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd certainly like to see animal husbandry get put to good use with breeding for mounts in particular. It would be great to see an entire genealogy system develop for dynasties of horse flesh.
Perhaps keep such well bred creatures away from your bored master chef neighbor though.
Horse races, travel, beasts of burden, warhorses and those merely bred for beauty. There's a market there I think.
I would love to see unattended horses be something you can steal. I'm sure some relation of Tony would quickly find themselves able to open a low cost pony rental business. Just leave your pony where you're going, it will find its way back to them somehow, but don't ask about it. And no, you haven't seen that pony somewhere before.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think Mortal Online's system might be the best compromise between mounts that magically appear and disappear, and the realism of non-despawnable mounts.
In Mortal Online your pet stays around constantly but it has a loyalty meter. If you ignore your pet long enough if loses it's loyalty and is no longer your pet. In Mortal Online that meant people could kill it, but hopefully here it means that it breaks free from whatever you have it tethered by be that a rope or training, and just wanders off (AKA walks out of town and despawns permanently), with anyone who sees it wandering off having the chance to claim it or kill it if desired.
Now the way to make your mounts safe was to go to a stable and stable them. It didn't actually put a model of your mount in a stable anywhere. But you got a receipt you could use to come and claim your animal back whenever you needed to. It's a more logical despawn than the animal just poofing into thin air.
Additionally I would make it so if you log off your animal logs off with you. The only way to actually lose an animal should be to just leave it sitting somewhere while you wander off and do something else in-game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Andius, Ultima Online had a similar system as the one you mentioned. Mounts had a loyalty or happiness meter that would decrease over time based on how hungry the mount was (feeding it increased it's happiness) and how often you gave it a command (more commands made it more loyal). Mounts that reached zero loyalty/happiness would go wild and could then be tamed by someone with the animal taming skill and become their pet or mount. I remember having at least one unhappy horse going wild right underneath me. It bucked me off and wandered away.
For pet and mount storage, NPC operated stables were located in every major town and for a nominal fee, you could board your animals there. If you didn't return in one week, the beast was "sold off". There was a limit to the number of stable slots you had for pets and mounts, but you could recall that animal from any stable (I think). Later, a game perk allowed homeowners to create a stable NPC attached to their house plot, which became very popular at player owned taverns and large guildhalls. In PFO, it might be a neat way for tavern owners to make some extra upkeep coin while providing a useful service for their patrons.
In UO, your mount or pet was "blue" hi-lighted and treated as such for monster flagging, so an unattended pet could easily find itself attacked and killed. With the animal taming skill, you found players just waiting for someone's pet or mount to go wild so that they could snap them up for their own use or sale. However, with the problem of server lag mentioned earlier, all those extra pets hanging out could be an issue. I recall some tamers dragging whole flocks of sheep into their locked homes so that they could let them go wild (avoided having to feed them) but still keep them corralled for easy sheering (darn those sneaky tailors).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have to say I enjoyed playing UO, the only other MMO I ever played. Mounts was a great way to speedily get from place to place as a group even though there were the moon gates and recall spells at hand for much faster travel. The various forms of transport from point A to B did not result in less communication between the characters, as often one had to go off the beaten route to visit a place of interest.
I all for mounts, and even the exotic ones too.