So what does the variable level part of a totem shamen's wildshaping effect? Only the level of beastshape (size, bonus, qualities)? Or does it also effect the times per day and hours per wildshape?
Seems as if I found the answer here.
Keep in mind that this post isn't from a dev and doesn't reflect the rules 100%.
I asked the question because I felt the rules where unclear. If you feel like there is a better interpration, I would be interested to hear it.
Keep in mind that this post isn't from a dev and doesn't reflect the rules 100%.
If it's the post I think it is (Jason Nelson), then it doesn't get much more official. He wrote them.
Keep in mind that this post isn't from a dev and doesn't reflect the rules 100%.If it's the post I think it is (Jason Nelson), then it doesn't get much more official. He wrote them.
It is, and yeah, he did.
Cool, thanks guys.
First of all he said that the totem druids don't get wildshape until 6th level which isn't the case the way the shaman druids are written now, second i don't think that it should (but probably does) count on wildshapes per day because things get a little complicated (with the whole totem animals and regular animals).
And bottom line is that almost all shaman druids (except lion and saurian) suck big time so i don't see a reason to gimp them further by delaying the wildshape by two levels (and sending the natural spell feat at 7th level)
He wrote the thing. If Paizo didn't alter them, his word is gospel. You now know the intent from the game designer himself. It's poorly worded, but we now know the intent.
And I remember when they first came out and people thought that they were the best summoners in the game. My, how times have changed.
He wrote the thing. If Paizo didn't alter them, his word is gospel. You now know the intent from the game designer himself. It's poorly worded, but we now know the intent.
And I remember when they first came out and people thought that they were the best summoners in the game. My, how times have changed.
We don't know if Paizo change them or not, that's why i need a FAQ myself.
How are the best summoners in the game? Because they can summon one kind of animal* as a standard action? Big deal.*Which in most cases isn't a good animal
Again i disagree with Nelson, i think that the game has a lot of bad options (yes VoP monk i am looking at you) to add any more.
Shrug. I see no reason to assume that Paizo changed them. Generally the designers will say "Well, the final version is different from what I wrote, but here's the designer's intent" if that is the case.
And it's the templates that allow earlier access and longer relevancy.
And it's the templates that allow earlier access and longer relevancy.
Are you talking about wildshaping or summoning monsters?
Because irrc you can't add templates when using summon nature ally (summon monster gets you templates) and i don't see anywhere in the rules that i can use templates in wildshape.First of all he said that the totem druids don't get wildshape until 6th level which isn't the case the way the shaman druids are written now, second i don't think that it should (but probably does) count on wildshapes per day because things get a little complicated (with the whole totem animals and regular animals).
And bottom line is that almost all shaman druids (except lion and saurian) suck big time so i don't see a reason to gimp them further by delaying the wildshape by two levels (and sending the natural spell feat at 7th level)
No they don't all "suck big time". They're not going to be as optimal in the same ways as other druids. A totem druid isn't always meant to be a wildshaping melee monster. Some are better played as primarily casters, but that doesn't mean they suck, they just call for a different style of play.
So yes, all totem druids delay getting wildshape until 6th. but when they do get it, they operate as 8th when wildshaping to their totem and as 4th everywhere else. You of course are free to houserule it differently in your games, but that's the official rule.
Ok first of all nowhere it says that their wildshape gets delayed, only that at 6th level they change their effective level.
And which shaman archetypes make better caster druids than a vanilla druid enough to justify a 2 level delay for wildshape.
Totemic Summons. Look at the bear shaman.
Totemic Summons. Look at the bear shaman.
Ok i hadn't read the second paragraph of the totemic summons ability, it's a good one for sure but my case remains the same only the lion and suarian shamans are any good. Which other shamans are good? (either as melee beasts or as spellcasters)
Totemic Summons. Look at the bear shaman.Ok i hadn't read the second paragraph of the totemic summons ability, it's a good one for sure but my case remains the same only the lion and suarian shamans are any good. Which other shamans are good? (either as melee beasts or as spellcasters)
They open up a lot of domains. If you weren't interested in Wild Shape, then that's nice.
Ape Shaman can summon Advanced Giant Girallons. Advanced Giant ones would be getting something like...112 HP when summoned at 11th level. Suddenly they can survive 3 hits from the average high-damaging CR 11 creature, yay!
Bat Shaman could be pretty good in melee, due to the interactions between the Darkness subdomain, blindfight, the Fog spells, and Blindsense. You don't need to be in Bat form, and a level of something else and Shaping Focus would more than negate the penalty from non-bat form.
Eagle can get Nobility, which gives Leadership for free. If you're going to be casting, this is a decent choice, since you'll only really be using Wild Shape to fly. The fly speed from Totemic Transformation is pretty sweet too. That goes for any flying animals. You suddenly don't need Natural Spell!
Eagle also has something in high levels for summoning, namely Rocs.
Serpentine has that nice Bite attack. Well, more so the poison :) Con damage is great. The rest of the archetype, not so much.
Shark Shaman is pretty much your only choice for aquatic campaigns. Until they release the Squid Shaman.
These aren't the greatest, obviously. But they aren't as bad as you make them out to be. Especially the ones that grant Totemic Transformation (Flying).
Ok i agree i might not have done justice for some shaman archetypes but i still think that the things you get justify a two level delay of wildshape too much of a price.
But even if that's the case now i am sure that they aren't in the level of cloistered cleric and VoP monk.
PS. i think that totemic transformation is in most cases crap, seriously a standard action for one minute per level weak effect? I think that threre are very few who are worth their standard action to activate after 5th level (tops)
The action economy gets better. Same progression as bardic performance I think. Move action fly is pretty awesome.
The action economy gets better. Same progression as bardic performance I think. Move action fly is pretty awesome.
It's swift action at 12th level (one level before bard) but still most of the effect aren't really much and on top of that they can't be used while wildshaped.