I'm going to run a short PBP campaign off of this site, as the homebrew setting I'm working on won't be ready for a while and I want to play. Here's the situation. Golarion picked up the idiot ball. It all started with a few nations who shall not be named at each others throats and inches away from war. Soon, however, things escalated as more and more people got dragged into the conflict, until it pretty much looked like World War Golarion was about to break out. It did, and as the war dragged on nations started bringing in their best spellcasters to assure victory. What happened next isn't particularly clear. Someone did something stupid, and the entire surface of the world got razed with magical energy, destroying the cities and towns and devastating the wilds. To make matters worse, the gods abandoned Golarion after this happened. Only Mother Nature herself remains, and is the sole source of divine magic. The elves, gnomes, and halflings vanished into thin air and are widely believed to be extinct and the dwarves retreated into their mines and haven't been seen since. Humans have retreated into what wilds remained undestroyed after the apocalypse, living a stone age existence. Now, however, it's been several decades, and nature has reclaimed the world. The vast tracks of destroyed wilderness have recovered and returned to their former splendor and the ruins of civilization have likewise returned to nature. Now, the leaders of the humans in one of these isolated wilderness settlements have decided that it is time to send some people (the PCs) into the world at large to investigate what it now looks like and see what useful things they can find (specifically, lost knowledge such as technology).
Here's the thing. There are no magic items. There is no one to make them, no one to buy them from, and money is worthless anyway. Any you found laying around from before everything collapsed aside from powerful artifacts that I'm not giving the PCs would have lost it's magic overtime and become useless.
However, the Bestiary is designed for characters with magic items. So, to replace them everyone needs to get some buffs as they level up. Suggestions on what buffs each class should get at what levels? Here are the classes allowed in this campaign:
Barbarian
Bard
Druid
Fighter
Inquisitor (Maybe. I'm on the fence about this one.)
Paladin (Neutral Good nature servants)
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Witch
Help would be much appreciated.
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Here's the thing. There are no magic items. There is no one to make them, no one to buy them from, and money is worthless anyway. Any you found laying around from before everything collapsed aside from powerful artifacts that I'm not giving the PCs would have lost it's magic overtime and become useless.
Why not just run this as an E6 campaign? My experience is that it is much, MUCH easier to remove magic item shops when using E6 rules.
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there are certain things that matter more than others.
"counts as magic to overcome DR" is going to be an issue, especially if you fight incorporeal things.
I did the breakdown, and effectively if you give an extra stat point at every odd level and 2 extra stat points every even, and let player attacks count as magic to overcome DR (or give them special weapons that do) it balances out to expected power level.
just stipulate they cant level the same stat 2 levels in a row (so if you bump dex at 1st, you gotta wait till at least 3rd to put another point in it.) but let them but 2 stat point into a stat at the same level if they want (so at 2nd you could +2 str)
keep in mind this is IN ADDITION to the normal stat point every 4 levels.
and its STILL below the expected power level of characters equipped with magic items (level appropriate). you lose out on all the "flashy" tricks like elemental damage, speed, extra ac, ect
so you could have some one who started with a 20 and made it to 20th have a 40 str. normaly the max would be 38 with items, but they'd also have a +5 +xd6 weapon.
they can end up wit ha few extra hp via this system, but saves, ac, and attacks still suffer. but its as close as i can figure on how to do a no-magic item system
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there are certain things that matter more than others.
"counts as magic to overcome DR" is going to be an issue, especially if you fight incorporeal things.
I did the breakdown, and effectively if you give an extra stat point at every odd level and 2 extra stat points every even, and let player attacks count as magic to overcome DR (or give them special weapons that do) it balances out to expected power level.
just stipulate they cant level the same stat 2 levels in a row (so if you bump dex at 1st, you gotta wait till at least 3rd to put another point in it.) but let them but 2 stat point into a stat at the same level if they want (so at 2nd you could +2 str)
keep in mind this is IN ADDITION to the normal stat point every 4 levels.
and its STILL below the expected power level of characters equipped with magic items (level appropriate). you lose out on all the "flashy" tricks like elemental damage, speed, extra ac, ect
so you could have some one who started with a 20 and made it to 20th have a 40 str. normaly the max would be 38 with items, but they'd also have a +5 +xd6 weapon.
they can end up wit ha few extra hp via this system, but saves, ac, and attacks still suffer. but its as close as i can figure on how to do a no-magic item system
What about adding an extra feat every four levels on top of these attribute increases?
you can do this a couple of different ways.
first, in the noble wild book, they have a section on deeds. basically you can get the equivalent of a +2 magic weapon to all your attacks, but to get it you must accomplish what the deed says, like beat 3 foes by yourself that are of equal level to you. and you have to start from the +1 challenge and build this up. this allows the players to get certain bonuses but lack magic items.
another way to do this is to use the Midnight rpg's heroic paths. each player gains one heroic path at first level and gains a benefit every level from the path. once they pick it up, it cant be changed, and no two people can have the same heroic path. this will give them an edge against the monsters without giving them magic items.
just for the record, i kinda like the game idea.
Now, the leaders of the humans in one of these isolated wilderness settlements have decided that it is time to send some people (the PCs) into the world at large to investigate what it now looks like and see what useful things they can find (specifically, lost knowledge such as technology).
... but they're wasting their time. Because I (the DM) decided there isn't any.
Dude, you've got this huge set-up with this post-apocalyptic environment and given the players a plot hook. Then you've squished it. Worse, unless you've flattened player classes into the ground, it doesn't make much sense. If arcane casters can still do their schtick and craftsmen can still make armor and weapons and the like (or they can do this once again), what's keeping anyone from crafting magic items? Like scrolls? Or potions. Or vorpal greataxes.
I'm not trying to talk you out of your plan, but I don't get the impression you're doing this because you hate magic items. I get the impression you just don't think they fit in your environment. Problem is... they do.
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I tried to run this idea in my own homebrew setting......it failed......it failed hard. Here is where the biggest problem I ran into was centered, AC vs BAB. Without magic to bolster a character's AC, even a normal human fighter with a wooden stick is going to be able to do some substantial damage.
Taking out a lot of the magical beast, extraplanar and such is going to make things a lot easier, as well as fighting larger groups of lower-level enemies (sometimes much larger groups). But I think kyrt-ryder had the best idea. Instead of magic items and/or weapons, have it be bonuses based on feats. A fighter who hits an enemy 100 times gets a bonus to hit. A character who's taken X number of damage heals at double the normal rate, or with half the normal amount of rest per night.
You'll just have to be inventive with this, and don't be afraid to try things and change them if they don't work. Just tell your players ahead of time that this maybe won't work out the way you want it to, they'll understand. My original homebrew setting had no arcane magic and only 1/4 of standard divine magic. This resulted in a lot of deaths, very quickly.
Now, the leaders of the humans in one of these isolated wilderness settlements have decided that it is time to send some people (the PCs) into the world at large to investigate what it now looks like and see what useful things they can find (specifically, lost knowledge such as technology).... but they're wasting their time. Because I (the DM) decided there isn't any.
Dude, you've got this huge set-up with this post-apocalyptic environment and given the players a plot hook. Then you've squished it. Worse, unless you've flattened player classes into the ground, it doesn't make much sense. If arcane casters can still do their schtick and craftsmen can still make armor and weapons and the like (or they can do this once again), what's keeping anyone from crafting magic items? Like scrolls? Or potions. Or vorpal greataxes.
I'm not trying to talk you out of your plan, but I don't get the impression you're doing this because you hate magic items. I get the impression you just don't think they fit in your environment. Problem is... they do.
The ability to make masterwork weapons and armor doesn't exist (the tribe has people who can craft, but not tools of high enough quality for masterwork), nor does it have access to the components necessary. You need at least a few thousand gold pieces worth to craft a single magic weapon, and the tribe doesn't have access to that much stuff that they can dump it all into one item. They need to spread it out over several different things they need done. In a subsistence lifestyle, it just isn't happening. They may have the ability to make magic items, but not enough of the necessary materials. Scrolls cannot be crafted for much same same reason, plus the fact that literacy is rare (none of the PCs can read or write), but potions can be brewed. They are the one magic item the PCs will have access to.
I made some changes, and I've posted a recruitment thread:
I tried to run this idea in my own homebrew setting......it failed......it failed hard. Here is where the biggest problem I ran into was centered, AC vs BAB. Without magic to bolster a character's AC, even a normal human fighter with a wooden stick is going to be able to do some substantial damage.
Taking out a lot of the magical beast, extraplanar and such is going to make things a lot easier, as well as fighting larger groups of lower-level enemies (sometimes much larger groups). But I think kyrt-ryder had the best idea. Instead of magic items and/or weapons, have it be bonuses based on feats. A fighter who hits an enemy 100 times gets a bonus to hit. A character who's taken X number of damage heals at double the normal rate, or with half the normal amount of rest per night.
That wasn't my idea. The idea I put forth was to keep the magic item system in the game mechanically but to 'hide' it in the story by changing the roleplay aspects.
Hell, this system can even be slightly better than core, when it comes to allowing martial characters to be versatile with their weapons and such (since you'd buy weapon abilities once and they'd apply to any weapon you hold. If Two Weapon Fighting scares you as a DM you 'could' make them buy a second set of enhancements to be able to apply them to 'off-hand attacks.' I wouldn't though.)
It's kind of a cool idea I'll admit, but I'd never charge people feats to replace the magic item system. Inherent upgrades of badassery that use different mechanics than the magic item system can be really cool (and a lot more work than my suggestion) but never charge feats...
You'll just have to be inventive with this, and don't be afraid to try things and change them if they don't work. Just tell your players ahead of time that this maybe won't work out the way you want it to, they'll understand. My original homebrew setting had no arcane magic and only 1/4 of standard divine magic. This resulted in a lot of deaths, very quickly.
I like Name Violation's idea with an extra feat every four levels thrown in.
To address the matter of the tribe needing 'x gold worth' it doesn't matter how much gold they have, or how valuable they perceive the resources. That's just a short-hand for standard gameplay. What matters is that they have the necessary tools and materials and skills.
A flaming sword's '4,000 gp worth of reagents' could just as easily be a magical flower that grows in a volcano near the village. Nobody has a gold piece value on it, but it's still there.
It could be, but I like the idea of those 4000 GP being a large amount of materials that the tribe can't spare.
The game doesn't function properly without a monetary and magic item system. Unless you make an extremely dynamic homebrew system that takes into consideration the power of all items accessible by players. I suggest just skinning. Keep the stats and just say they're more refined or have serrated edges. Things like that.
This is actually something I have done before and took a lot of time to make everything work out. First was that everyone started at what we eventually called 0th level. Basically the character is their stats to begin with and the PC's roleplay into the class they want to become at 1st level. We usually make it about 500xp to get to first level which goes away once they actually get their class. Each class gets a bonus that would semi replace magic items, ie Fighters get +1 AC every other level. However, this style can be extremely brutal but fun if done right. Also when we do this instead of taking out damage reduction we just changed the system so every reduction has a type instead of a number, ex +1-+2 just becomes metal, +3-+4 just becomes silver and so on. If you want no magic items just take out the creation feats. If you just want them rare then make it known that they cannot just gain a feat, but have to roleplay it being trained to them somehow, perhaps by a celestial.
Also you could modify the 3.5 vow of poverty into something everyone gets as they level and let some of the enhancments bonuses be their choice.
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suggestions:
special metals and materials could play a bigger role than in normal campaigns. silver arrows MEAN something, or your (insert special metal name here) does x extra damage vs y foe,
3.5's "star metal", it was adamantine that added 2d6 damage vs outsiders. super rare, always considered masterwork. i'd let it count as magic
weapons made of dragon bones deal +1 damage(same kind as dragons breath weapon). let it multiply on a crit and count as magic.
Let armor made from magical monsters give a higher ac bonus, or dr/magic or energy resist (dragon hide full plate give fire resist 5 or 10, or higher based on dragons age category for example)
use the dr as armor variant rules, but don't reduce the AC armor grants.
allow alchemical solutions like "molten salt". a weapon covered in molten salt can deal damage to incorporeal as tho it were a magic weapon.
let most rare metals from the core book count as magic (adamantine, mithral, cold iron)
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This thread and this thread have a lot of great suggestions on how to remove magic items. The best ideas function either as a static progression or some variation of kyrt's idea of essentially roleplaying them out of existence.
I have my own "valor points" system (similar to the second thread linked above) that I..have not yet had an opportunity to use, but would really like to give it a try eventually. Hmm.
