Under the barbarian rage power Knockback, it says: "Once per round, the barbarian can make a bull rush attempt against one target in place of a melee attack.(...) This does not provoke an attack of opportunity."
The Bull rush maneuver says : "you can make a bull rush as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack."
which is the correct interpretation of the rules:
a) Since knockback specifies "once per round", it means you can use the knockback rage power instead of one of your attacks, either a standard attack action after a move, one of the iterative attacks due to high BAB, or even instead of an AoO.
b) Knockback uses the same mechanics and limitations as a bull rush attempt. it essentially counts as improved bull rush by itself : no AoO part, trading the +2 CMB/CMD bonus for little damage. It also must be used as a standard action or charge.
If it's only b) that is correct, it seems a little weak as a rage power. It does little by itself and overlaps with a feat meant to complement it.
If a) is correct, I fear it adds a mechanical problem to close combat: full attack, trading last attack for bullrush maneuver, do not follow, 5' step back. Rinse and repeat.
anyone?
I would go with a) as that is what the rules actually say.
It would be easy enough to phrase it to work exactly like Imp. Bullrush normally does, BUT THAT WASN'T DONE.
The design approach to Rage Powers seems to be enabling stuff NOT exactly achievable by Feats:
A good idea if you want to differentiate Barbarians from Fighters.
Using your last Iterative attack for the Knockback would have a very low chance of success against any credible opposition, so I don't really forsee that becoming a common tactic. Knockback SHOULD work on AoO's, though (as long as you didn't use it during previous turn). If you didn't follow the Beta playtest, you should know that this is a huge nerf to it's previous (Beta) version, which didn't have the 1/round limit.
The use of a combat maneuver at a later iterative has a lower CMB ? It does make sense mind you, but I just can't find the place it's specified.
I remember a thread during the playtest asking this very question; CMB is calculated based on Base Attack Bonus, but the BAB is invariant.
Now the second iterative attack is made at a -5 penalty, and that could be what they refer to as (under combat maneuver, page 199 second paragraph)
"(...)you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll."
Although I thought they meant curses, conditions, debuffs and the like, it might also incluse the iterative malus.
anyway thanks for the input. Knockback on a AoO sure looks fantastic...just less broken than a trip attempt.
I was a little confused reading this today so I'll weigh in.
Because both Bull Rush and Knockback use the phrase 'in place of the melee attack' or similar, my interpretation is that Knockback is meant to be a special version of Bull Rush that does damage for Barbarians.
Executing a Bull Rush is a standard action, and barbarians don't suddenly get to make Bull Rush attempts as part of a full attack because of this ability, they just get to do damage on a normal bull rush and don't have to move with their target.
Performing a Combat Maneuver: When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
I think it's pretty clear: Knockback enables the barbarian to trade one attack from his Full Attack Action for a Bull Rush check; normally he'd need to sacrifice his attacks for a check because it would be a standard action.
I believe it is any attack, which is why knock back is not an action to activate, which includes AOO.
Knockback (Ex): Once per round, the barbarian can make a bull rush attempt against one target in place of a melee attack. If successful, the target takes damage equal to the barbarian's Strength modifier and is moved back as normal. The barbarian does not need to move with the target if successful. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
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I wish the rage power didn't explicitly say "no AoO" since a bull rush already doesn't provoke an AoO, but if you have Imp & Greater it does. So it seem that if knock back allowed you to do a bull rush in place of one of your attacks, if you allowed the regular effects of bull rush feats to kick in it would be fair. But by saying "No AoO" I'm pretty sure that the greater bull rush feat effect cannot occur?
While it's ambiguous, I think the "this does not provoke an AoO" line refers to the barbarian initiating the bull rush. Normal bull rushes do provoke, and there's no reason to assume that the barbarian will have any of the bull rush feats. So the default cases that the text needs to modify is (a) the barbarian provokes an AoO and (b) the target does not.
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While it's ambiguous, I think the "this does not provoke an AoO" line refers to the barbarian initiating the bull rush. Normal bull rushes do provoke, and there's no reason to assume that the barbarian will have any of the bull rush feats. So the default cases that the text needs to modify is (a) the barbarian provokes an AoO and (b) the target does not.
I think your right and I've misread this, if it is just saying that this move doesn't provoke an AO for the barb then it seems compatible with the feats as before. I think I was tired when I read it.
Can you use Power Attack in conjunction with Knockback? Thoughts?