heh big post I only have 3 things to say.
would AM have a problem with a paranoid caster who surrounds himself with meat shields that would block the charge ?
Cleaving finish and the improved version would help.
Also how do you have a meatshield on your head to stop a downward charge.
A better approach would be a maximized disintegrate at BATTY, unless the caster gets a cohort, in which case the caster's (currently invisible) cohort readies an action of 'move between AM and my buddy the caster as soon as I see him start his charge.' Since you can't charge through a creature, and AM can't see the cohort when he starts his charge...I think he just double moves? Anyway, he's not charging, and the caster gets to throw a couple more spells around. Like, say, a pair of WoE, one of which would need to be quickened, obviously.Neither disintegrate nor (as someone else suggested) maze on BATTY is going to work, since it's been stated that AM and BATTY travel around on 6-1/2-hour patrols with spell turning in place. Either way, the spell bounces back on you.
The maximized disintegrate would probably kill you, since your Fort save and hp are probably not nearly as high as AM's or BATTY's. Maze is less of a problem, since you can plane shift out of it, and at worst you're "trapped" inside of an extradimensional prison where AM can't RAGELANCEPOUNCE you.
Interesting question: Can AM spell sunder a maze from the OUTSIDE? I would suppose he could, since the specific point where the target disappears is magically relevant to the maze spell (as it's where you reappear), which suggests there's some kind of fixed and locked extradimensional gate or anchor-point right there.
So in theory AM could double-move up to the spot (if he can find it), and on the next round (assuming you haven't escaped) can do a full attack starting with a spell sunder of the maze and then working you like a speed bag when you pop out into reality.
Just sayin it could happen... :)
You know, that would work. He can sunder a rope trick or magnificent mansion by the same technique, so there's no reason maze is an exception.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I think that it's fair to say that both iron body and holding your breath is a fair counter, however liss you may have been the first generally agreed solution to AM unless some-one else comes up with something we've missed. So 12 rounds, baring in mind save or die spells most likely wont work, what do you do?Necklace of adaptation is a cheap (9000) solution to the problem. It stipulates any kind of harmful gases or vapors or inhaled poisons, as well as specifically stating that it surrounds you with a shell of fresh air. The dust wouldn't go through.
Agh, but that gives up the scarab.
Well, I guess I can change dependent om the situation.
True. You could also have a custom-made no-slot necklace of adaptation for 18K. AM probably has that much gold in his stool when AM is 20th level!
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I'm not scrying. As I've said before, legend lore, discern location, and wish should suffice to find AM. And my cohort can just ask his god 'where will AM be at this time tomorrow?' or 'where will AM sleep tonight?'
...and don't tell me he never sleeps.
AM can't get to the maze to sunder it, because it's up in the air, and he's on the ground.
I'm not scrying. As I've said before, legend lore, discern location, and wish should suffice to find AM. And my cohort can just ask his god 'where will AM be at this time tomorrow?' or 'where will AM sleep tonight?'
...and don't tell me he never sleeps.
AM can't get to the maze to sunder it, because it's up in the air, and he's on the ground.
The answer is 'on BATTY BAT.'
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The answer is 'on BATTY BAT.'I'm not scrying. As I've said before, legend lore, discern location, and wish should suffice to find AM. And my cohort can just ask his god 'where will AM be at this time tomorrow?' or 'where will AM sleep tonight?'
...and don't tell me he never sleeps.
AM can't get to the maze to sunder it, because it's up in the air, and he's on the ground.
No, it's not. And you know it's not.
I'm not scrying. As I've said before, legend lore, discern location, and wish should suffice to find AM. And my cohort can just ask his god 'where will AM be at this time tomorrow?' or 'where will AM sleep tonight?'
...and don't tell me he never sleeps.
AM can't get to the maze to sunder it, because it's up in the air, and he's on the ground.
First off legend lore would be useless here
Second For discer location how do you have something of AM since we know you havent seen him without already dying.
Third Discern would be useless as soon as he moves as stated earlier.
And why can't he sleep on BATTY BAT?
Question: Is there any way for AM to get Mind Blank?
That would kill the whole 'I scry on him and then teleport to ambush him' argument. Would also make diviners cry...
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First off legend lore would be useless here
Second For discer location how do you have something of AM since we know you havent seen him without already dying.
Third Discern would be useless as soon as he moves as stated earlier.
And why can't he sleep on BATTY BAT?
No, it wouldn't be useless. He's 20th level; by the spell description, anyone over 11th level is considered legendary.
Of course I know about AM. I've met him before. I teleported away after getting a good look at him. And the wish is there to modify the discern location and help me find him.
He can sleep on BATTY BAT if he likes...but where is BATTY BAT going to sleep?
Question: Is there any way for AM to get Mind Blank?
That would kill the whole 'I scry on him and then teleport to ambush him' argument. Would also make diviners cry...
That argument doesn't exist.
First off legend lore would be useless here
Second For discer location how do you have something of AM since we know you havent seen him without already dying.
Third Discern would be useless as soon as he moves as stated earlier.
And why can't he sleep on BATTY BAT?
No, it wouldn't be useless. He's 20th level; by the spell description, anyone over 11th level is considered legendary.
Of course I know about AM. I've met him before. I teleported away after getting a good look at him. And the wish is there to modify the discern location and help me find him.
He can sleep on BATTY BAT if he likes...but where is BATTY BAT going to sleep?
So your counting on a wish spell with to work in a perfect manner. Thats almost as Risky as trying to kill AM.
Wish in one hand....
Depends on what you want it to do to Discern Location.
First off legend lore would be useless here
Second For discer location how do you have something of AM since we know you havent seen him without already dying.
Third Discern would be useless as soon as he moves as stated earlier.
And why can't he sleep on BATTY BAT?
No, it wouldn't be useless. He's 20th level; by the spell description, anyone over 11th level is considered legendary.
Of course I know about AM. I've met him before. I teleported away after getting a good look at him. And the wish is there to modify the discern location and help me find him.
He can sleep on BATTY BAT if he likes...but where is BATTY BAT going to sleep?
BATTY BAT is a Lame Oracle. Natural fatigue immunity, thus no need to sleep.
First off legend lore would be useless here
Second For discer location how do you have something of AM since we know you havent seen him without already dying.
Third Discern would be useless as soon as he moves as stated earlier.
And why can't he sleep on BATTY BAT?
No, it wouldn't be useless. He's 20th level; by the spell description, anyone over 11th level is considered legendary.
Of course I know about AM. I've met him before. I teleported away after getting a good look at him. And the wish is there to modify the discern location and help me find him.
He can sleep on BATTY BAT if he likes...but where is BATTY BAT going to sleep?
In what way have you met him? Because as I remember it your spider sense tingled and you ported away instantly. You defiantly did not get close enough to see him.
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In what way have you met him? Because as I remember it your spider sense tingled and you ported away instantly. You defiantly did not get close enough to see him.
...huh? Nope, that wasn't me. I was the one who waited, with a readied spell, until just before he got to me with his charge. That must've been some other cowardly caster.
This thread is like a virus. It keeps spreading. Also, BTW, the build is almost complete in Herolab, just need gear now.....MWHAAAAAAHAAAAAHAHAAHHAAHAAAA!
In what way have you met him? Because as I remember it your spider sense tingled and you ported away instantly. You defiantly did not get close enough to see him....huh? Nope, that wasn't me. I was the one who waited, with a readied spell, until just before he got to me with his charge. That must've been some other cowardly caster.
No yeah that's you. You even talked about how you teleporting away didn't mean you lost and that's when you started talking about how you'd just scry him and ambush him.
Which we've shown you can't do.
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In what way have you met him? Because as I remember it your spider sense tingled and you ported away instantly. You defiantly did not get close enough to see him....huh? Nope, that wasn't me. I was the one who waited, with a readied spell, until just before he got to me with his charge. That must've been some other cowardly caster.No yeah that's you. You even talked about how you teleporting away didn't mean you lost and that's when you started talking about how you'd just scry him and ambush him.
Which we've shown you can't do.
Where did I say I'd teleport away instantly, before waiting to see what was attacking me? And how can I not scry him with the spells I've mentioned?
How high do you fly on BATTY BAT AM this is important.
SMALL PROBLEM.
BARBARIAN AM PC. INFORMATION GIVEN FROM LEGEND LORE AND OTHER SUCH SPELLS AM FROM GM.
AM DEFINITELY ABLE TO GIVE INFORMATION ON WHERE BARBARIAN AM RIGHT NOW, PROBABLY ON WHERE BARBARIAN BEEN, BUT SHORT OF MIND READING AM NO WAY TO DEFINITELY PREDICT WHERE AM AM GOING TO BE.
HECK, BARBARIAN NOT EVEN KNOW.
CASTY FEEL THAT?
THAT AM FEELING OF FEAR OF DIVINATION SPECIALIST CASTY NOT BEING ABLE TO DETERMINE TIME AND PLACE OF ENCOUNTER.
AM FEELING BARBARIAN HOPE DIVINATION CASTY SAVOR.
How high do you fly on BATTY BAT AM this is important.
MINIMUM 100 FEET.
So you are saying you DIDN'T teleport away? So can you explain how you aren't dead?
Fatigue immunity is NOT the same as 'never needs to sleep.' You're kinda reaching here. Okay, more than kinda.
BATTY BAT is a Lame Oracle. Natural fatigue immunity, thus no need to sleep.
Character in carrion crown who used a charge of Lesser Restoration to remove fatigue every time it sets in.
Note that this worked, and exhaustion never needed removal.
Thus, you're actually the one reaching by arguing this point because canon supports me.
I take 5 hour energy, but after about 3 days it gives me the squirtles.
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Fatigue immunity is NOT the same as 'never needs to sleep.' You're kinda reaching here. Okay, more than kinda.
BATTY BAT is a Lame Oracle. Natural fatigue immunity, thus no need to sleep.Character in carrion crown who used a charge of Lesser Restoration to remove fatigue every time it sets in.
Note that this worked, and exhaustion never needed removal.
Thus, you're actually the one reaching by arguing this point because canon supports me.
Never played it. Okay, I'll concede the point that BATTY BAT never sleeps. But I'll still assert that the divination combo I mentioned will suffice to spot AM, and put me close enough to surprise him.
Never played it. Okay, I'll concede the point that BATTY BAT never sleeps. But I'll still assert that the divination combo I mentioned will suffice to spot AM, and put me close enough to surprise him.Fatigue immunity is NOT the same as 'never needs to sleep.' You're kinda reaching here. Okay, more than kinda.
BATTY BAT is a Lame Oracle. Natural fatigue immunity, thus no need to sleep.Character in carrion crown who used a charge of Lesser Restoration to remove fatigue every time it sets in.
Note that this worked, and exhaustion never needed removal.
Thus, you're actually the one reaching by arguing this point because canon supports me.
Assertion is fine, but I would like to know how exactly this is supposed to work.
Assertion without evidence would let me say AM can ride a giant robot into the sunset after destroying everything that is.
Fatigue immunity is NOT the same as 'never needs to sleep.' You're kinda reaching here. Okay, more than kinda.
BATTY BAT is a Lame Oracle. Natural fatigue immunity, thus no need to sleep.
Batty Bat could be an undead of some sort...maybe a lich-synthesist or a dracolich...
"the action occurs just before the action that triggers it"
So in this case i'd assumed that's the charge action right?
So you don't see him since he's still ages away. Actually i'd argue that means since you couldn't see the action go off you just get speared. Lanced. Whatever.
See, as it states you can't use it to actually disappear in the MIDDLE of his charge action. So you could either take the charge then port and hope you don't die, or port before he charges.
EDIT:- "Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move."
Before you say that you can ready it to react too the attack, it's actually said right here, "Charging is a action that lets you move then attack"
Those aren't actions, they are part of the charge action.
EDIT 2:- Y'know this thread has taught me that magic users being so powerful might have quite a bit to do with people just ASSUMING they can do things they can't. It's been very informative.
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Never played it. Okay, I'll concede the point that BATTY BAT never sleeps. But I'll still assert that the divination combo I mentioned will suffice to spot AM, and put me close enough to surprise him.
Assertion is fine, but I would like to know how exactly this is supposed to work.
Assertion without evidence would let me say AM can ride a giant robot into the sunset after destroying everything that is.
The spell description of wish states, in part: "Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." That good enough?
The spell description of wish states, in part: "Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." That good enough?
Never played it. Okay, I'll concede the point that BATTY BAT never sleeps. But I'll still assert that the divination combo I mentioned will suffice to spot AM, and put me close enough to surprise him.Assertion is fine, but I would like to know how exactly this is supposed to work.
Assertion without evidence would let me say AM can ride a giant robot into the sunset after destroying everything that is.
That explains how it moves you, but not how it allows you to get within 400 ft of AM.
The spell description of wish states, in part: "Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." That good enough?
Never played it. Okay, I'll concede the point that BATTY BAT never sleeps. But I'll still assert that the divination combo I mentioned will suffice to spot AM, and put me close enough to surprise him.Assertion is fine, but I would like to know how exactly this is supposed to work.
Assertion without evidence would let me say AM can ride a giant robot into the sunset after destroying everything that is.
Nope. You still need to tell it where to send you.
The spell description of wish states, in part: "Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." That good enough?
Never played it. Okay, I'll concede the point that BATTY BAT never sleeps. But I'll still assert that the divination combo I mentioned will suffice to spot AM, and put me close enough to surprise him.Assertion is fine, but I would like to know how exactly this is supposed to work.
Assertion without evidence would let me say AM can ride a giant robot into the sunset after destroying everything that is.
Go ahead and then take at least 10d6 falling damage unless you have feather fall prepared but thats all your doing that round per falling rules then its AM's Turn
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"the action occurs just before the action that triggers it"
So in this case i'd assumed that's the charge action right?
So you don't see him since he's still ages away. Actually i'd argue that means since you couldn't see the action go off you just get speared. Lanced. Whatever.
See, as it states you can't use it to actually disappear in the MIDDLE of his charge action. So you could either take the charge then port and hope you don't die, or port before he charges.
Two things with this:
1. Why can't I see him? He's never made any claim to invisibility or stealth, and the perception skill is used to detect 'fine details.' I don't need a perception check to see BATTY BAT and AM. He's in plain sight.
2. My readied action is 'teleport away when AM gets within 50 feet.'
"the action occurs just before the action that triggers it"
So in this case i'd assumed that's the charge action right?
So you don't see him since he's still ages away. Actually i'd argue that means since you couldn't see the action go off you just get speared. Lanced. Whatever.
See, as it states you can't use it to actually disappear in the MIDDLE of his charge action. So you could either take the charge then port and hope you don't die, or port before he charges.
Two things with this:
1. Why can't I see him? He's never made any claim to invisibility or stealth, and the perception skill is used to detect 'fine details.' I don't need a perception check to see BATTY BAT and AM. He's in plain sight.
2. My readied action is 'teleport away when AM gets within 50 feet.'
As per the rules you can only take the readied action JUST BEFORE his action.
So go ahead, it still wouldn't go off in the middle of his charge action, go read the rules yourself if you don't believe me.
And it also includes "Alerting you to danger"
Further i'd argue trying to see what something over 600 feat away is, is a pretty fine detail. No-one else out of everyone who's come in here with ideas has tried to argue this point so i'm not sure exactly why you are.
EDIT:- In fact, in the perception section noticing a visible creature is marked as a score of 0. Then we add the +60 for him being 600 feet away.
It's all in the RAW.
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That explains how it moves you, but not how it allows you to get within 400 ft of AM.The spell description of wish states, in part: "Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." That good enough?
Never played it. Okay, I'll concede the point that BATTY BAT never sleeps. But I'll still assert that the divination combo I mentioned will suffice to spot AM, and put me close enough to surprise him.Assertion is fine, but I would like to know how exactly this is supposed to work.
Assertion without evidence would let me say AM can ride a giant robot into the sunset after destroying everything that is.
Yes, it does. It's a wish. I realize the spell description says it may pervert the spell, but at that point we're already at GM fiat to decide who wins the fight.
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Go ahead and then take at least 10d6 falling damage unless you have feather fall prepared but thats all your doing that round per falling rules then its AM's Turn
The spell description of wish states, in part: "Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." That good enough?
What, I can't cast fly and several other spells before the wish?
What, I can't cast fly and several other spells before the wish?Go ahead and then take at least 10d6 falling damage unless you have feather fall prepared but thats all your doing that round per falling rules then its AM's Turn
The spell description of wish states, in part: "Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." That good enough?
Sure however AM's location is now close to a quater mile from where you discerned him in a direction you don't know.
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Sure however AM's location is now close to a quater mile from where you discerned him in a direction you don't know.What, I can't cast fly and several other spells before the wish?Go ahead and then take at least 10d6 falling damage unless you have feather fall prepared but thats all your doing that round per falling rules then its AM's Turn
The spell description of wish states, in part: "Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions." That good enough?
Um, no. I've cast the other spells first, then the discern location and wish. Maybe you wouldn't have thought of doing that, but I certainly did.
stuff
The point you're missing here, spot, is that you have not found a way to account for AM's constant movement. You can find his location, sure. But in the time you spend doing that, and then cast the next spell to get to that location, he's moved a quarter mile away. THAT is the problem.
Basing it off the fact you said before the wish not before both.